Sunrise, Sunset Problem

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Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« on: August 14, 2008, 03:26:39 PM »
In the FAQ, it states:

"Please explain sunrises/sunsets."

A: It's a perspective effect.  Really, the sun is just getting farther away; it looks like it disappears because everything gets smaller and eventually disappears as it gets farther away.

Doesn't come close to explaining anything.  Yes, when an object moves further away, it looks smaller, gets closer looks bigger.  If it moves far enough away at a given altitude, it will seem to disappear.  I dont know about where you live, but here, the sun doesn't get smaller or bigger, it looks near or to be the same size.  It also doesn't simply move further away on a given plane until it disappears, it moves down to the horizon, but still looking the same size. 

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2008, 03:59:51 PM »

Also, how do FE believers explain that just after the sun "sets" that I can see sunlight on high altitude clouds and tall mountains many miles east of my position?

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2008, 04:17:54 PM »
And how can FEs explain that the sun "sets" at the horizon and not just disappear in the sky?

If the sun was hundreds of miles above the Earth's surface and moved according to theory stated at this link
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za26.htm

and the Earth was flat, then we would never see the sun dip below the horizon.

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2008, 06:18:45 PM »
I will be good enough to include a link to one explanation.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=21131.msg428686#msg428686

Please read Chapter 10 of Earth Not a Globe. How the sun maintains its angular size of .5 degrees or 30 arc minutes over the course of the day was described over 150 years ago by the late Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham. It's a known magnification effect. As the sun recedes and shrinks its magnification is caused by the intense rays of light passing through the strata of the atmosphere.

From Chapter 10 of Earth Not a Globe we read:

      "IT is well known that when a light of any kind shines through a dense medium it appears larger, or rather gives a greater magnification of its image at a given distance than when it is seen through a lighter medium. This is more remarkable when the medium holds aqueous particles or vapour in solution, as in a damp or foggy atmosphere. Anyone may be satisfied of this by standing within a few yards of an ordinary street lamp, and noticing the size of the flame; on going away to many times the distance, the light upon the atmosphere will appear considerably larger. This phenomenon may be noticed, to a greater or less degree, at all times; but when the air is moist and vapoury it is more intense. It is evident that at sunrise, and at sunset, the sun's light must shine through a greater length of atmospheric air than at mid-day; besides which, the air near the earth is both more dense, and holds more watery particles in solution, than the higher strata through which the sun shines at noonday; and hence the light must be dilated or magnified, as well as modified in colour."


The next time you observe the sunset notice how the sun is much hazier, diluted, and less intense than it is overhead at noonday. This is a telltale sign that its rays are passing through a thick atmosphere, much like the light rays from a distant street lamp.

If you've ever seen a city at night you would know that distant light sources appear magnified from afar because they are shining though a dense medium. The farther you get from the source the more magnified they appear. As you move towards the source the magnified lights shrink in appearance. As you move away the lights grow in diameter again.

For example, here is a picture of an average bustling city at night. You will immediately notice upon looking at the image that the distant lights in the scene appear magnified and intense, particularly the white ones in the upper left of the image. You should note that most of the the orange lights in the background are about as big as the orange lights in the foreground. This is entirely contradictory to what one would expect. The background lights are much farther away and the distant bulbs are all smaller than a single pixel of the screen. The orange lights maintaining their size is a great example of the magnification effect of the atmosphere balancing out the natural shrinking to perspective.

As an analogy for the enlarging of the sun at sunset, lets imagine that we are in a dark room with a flashlight. We shine the light upon the wall, creating a distinct circle of light. If we walk backwards and recede away from the wall the spot of light grows in diameter. When we walk towards the wall the spot of light becomes smaller again. The same effect happens with the distant sun at sunset. Instead of a solid surface, however, the rays of light are shining upon the semi-transparent fog of the atmosphere between the observer and the sun. The natural shrinking of the sun due to perspective is counteracted by the enlarging effect of its light upon the horizontal strata of the atmosphere. This is how the sun's diameter is maintained throughout the day.

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Ke0

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2008, 10:57:22 PM »
My issue is other planets and the moon.

According to the mode (This one http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za26.htm) l, the sun rotates around earth as sort of a spot light.  Now unless the sun is fat as well, and only shines light down, then it's impossible to have a spot light effect, light rays don't suddenly stop at a certain distance outside of being drawn into a black hole.

So the problem becomes this, I understand from the diagram the Sun rotates around earth lighting up certain parts of it at certain times.  But how can we forget the fact that the sun is MUCH larger than Earth?

Now on to the other questions

How are the other planets getting light?
How can a lunar eclispe happen?
Alaska has months of complete night, but according to the models in said link, it too would get light on a daily basis....

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2008, 10:59:24 PM »

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Robbyj

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Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2008, 11:28:49 PM »
A four day member and you're already directing traffic, beautiful.
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2008, 02:12:10 AM »
I will be good enough to include a link to one explanation.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=21131.msg428686#msg428686

Please read Chapter 10 of Earth Not a Globe. How the sun maintains its angular size of .5 degrees or 30 arc minutes over the course of the day was described over 150 years ago by the late Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham. It's a known magnification effect. As the sun recedes and shrinks its magnification is caused by the intense rays of light passing through the strata of the atmosphere.

From Chapter 10 of Earth Not a Globe we read:
...

I still cant find an explanation for this:

Ooompa ooompa

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2008, 02:26:09 AM »
The Electromagnetic Accelerator. If you do a search, you should find Robosteve's topic where he explains his new, but as yet incomplete theory.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2008, 02:40:09 AM »
The Electromagnetic Accelerator. If you do a search, you should find Robosteve's topic where he explains his new, but as yet incomplete theory.

I have read it.. Didnt make much sense. My problem I guess.

What is the official theory on this? There seems to be different ones: Perspective on flat surface. Gradient atmosphere. and now Electromagnetic Accelerator.
Are there even more?
Ooompa ooompa

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2008, 04:06:21 AM »
The Electromagnetic Accelerator. If you do a search, you should find Robosteve's topic where he explains his new, but as yet incomplete theory.

An honest question because I am at work and don't have time to read the whole thing. was he able to test his results or expand on his theory?

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2008, 04:13:08 AM »
I still cant find an explanation for this:
No explanation, but damn that's beautiful.
Quote from: General Douchebag[/quote
If Eminem had actually died, I would feel the force realign.
Quote from: ghazwozza
Of course it doesn't make sense, it's Tom Bishop's answer.

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Parsifal

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Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2008, 04:13:11 AM »
An honest question because I am at work and don't have time to read the whole thing. was he able to test his results or expand on his theory?

Not yet. I am currently working on a detailed mathematical model of it.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2008, 04:21:01 AM »
Why is it all the FE'ers quote this one 1800s scentist like he was some kind of diety? Even though over the years his science has been disproven several times? But anyone who mentions this, itsa conspiracy. Thatsthe fallacy of much of the arguments made by FE here. Accept only what supports your view, and if contrary evidence comes up *poof* conspiracy.
You subscribe to one scientist as if he were the messiah, yet ignore all the rest of the world's scientists who say otherwise.

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Parsifal

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Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2008, 04:26:20 AM »
Why is it all the FE'ers quote this one 1800s scentist like he was some kind of diety? Even though over the years his science has been disproven several times? But anyone who mentions this, itsa conspiracy. Thatsthe fallacy of much of the arguments made by FE here. Accept only what supports your view, and if contrary evidence comes up *poof* conspiracy.
You subscribe to one scientist as if he were the messiah, yet ignore all the rest of the world's scientists who say otherwise.

Much like when RE'ers are too faithful to Newton's laws to even bother trying to understand relativity.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: Sunrise, Sunset Problem
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2008, 03:41:31 PM »
If robosteves Electromagnetic Accelerator Theory is valid, what happens with the FAQ?
It says "well the Earth looks that way (flat) up close". I dont think it "looks that way" when looking at that picture (or a sunset at sea irl).
Maybe if I look straight down at my feet and I stand on something flat, like a floor, then "it looks flat up close". Hehe..
Ooompa ooompa