# Looking for an intelligent argument. (Terminal Velocity)

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#### interstellarsphere

• 118
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #150 on: August 17, 2008, 02:24:32 AM »
actually you just proved what i was saying. The gravity itself didnt directly effect the photo, as it cant it has no mass, but the curvature of Space time itself cause light to deviate from its path.
You can't read, right? Nevermind that, you didn't read the whole section I just quoted.

Quote
In general relativity, gravity is not construed as a force. Mass "warps" space-time to create gravitational fields and therefore bend light as a result. This curvature of space-time causes the path of even a massless particle like a photon to deviate from the straight lines expected from Euclidean intuition; and, in particular, the path is observed to curve in exactly the same way as the geodesics predicted by general relativity.

Gravitation, the curved spacetime which affects both mass and massless objects, bends light. Gravity, the force which cannot affect massless objects, cannot bend light.  I suggest you to study more and spend less time on the internets.

Nice try their buddy. PWNED.
You don't even know who is pwning who. Pity.

if their is a train on its tracks, i cant directly effect the train, but if i change the path of the tracks it travels on, it will be effected indirectly by my actions.
Except your analogy is wrong, just like your own created "E = MC squared".

Gravity bends space time.  this distorts light. period

E=MC squared is not wrong. your saying Einstein was wrong?

this is the forumla used to calculate the amount of energy in any given mass.

meaning if you converted x amount of matter to energy it would yield E.

#### Jack

• 5179
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #151 on: August 17, 2008, 02:28:40 AM »
Gravity bends space time.  this distorts light. period
Nope.

E=MC squared is not wrong. your saying Einstein was wrong?
Einstein was right, but you ruined his good name. You don't capitalize M or C. There is a reason why he wrote it as mc2.

this is the forumla used to calculate the amount of energy in any given mass. meaning if you converted x amount of matter to energy it would yield E.
That's why you don't use it on photons, like I've just said before. Glad that you finally realize your error.

#### Parsifal

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #152 on: August 17, 2008, 02:36:25 AM »
EHH wrong.
I said only objects with mass distort space time and produce gravity!I guess you dont read very well.
But the force of gravity can effect light, through lensing.
nice try.

Now you're confusing Newtonian gravity with Einsteinian gravitation.

No Im not. the two agree.
Einstein only built upon the foundation that Newton had laid.

Okay.

Using the equation , what is the gravitational force on a photon (which has zero mass, in case you've forgotten already) at the surface of the Earth? Now tell me if this agrees with General Relativity.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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#### cbarnett97

• 2746
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #153 on: August 17, 2008, 02:40:51 AM »
EHH wrong.
I said only objects with mass distort space time and produce gravity!I guess you dont read very well.
But the force of gravity can effect light, through lensing.
nice try.

Now you're confusing Newtonian gravity with Einsteinian gravitation.

No Im not. the two agree.
Einstein only built upon the foundation that Newton had laid.

Okay.

Using the equation , what is the gravitational force on a photon (which has zero mass, in case you've forgotten already) at the surface of the Earth? Now tell me if this agrees with General Relativity.
Light can be assigned a mass though, replace one of the masses with the equation: h(nu)/c2 and you will get your result
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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#### cbarnett97

• 2746
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #154 on: August 17, 2008, 02:43:08 AM »
I am still waiting for the answer to this so after you answer it we can then move onto other topics
I'm not on another topic.

/\    acceleration of the earth.  /\     acceleration of the person
|                                          |
|                                          |
When these are equal, the person has reached terminal velocity.

|
\/  Acceleration of the person.  /\  Acceleration due to air resistance.
|
When these are equal, the person has reached terminal velocity.

Does that help?  I tried to make it so simple a 6th grader could understand.  But I may be giving you too much credit.

well you almost answered the question, I know the question was confusing but here it goes again
then show me the correct equation using the model not what we see in reality and remember I have already taken into account for the acceleration of the FE in mine

So no equations yet?
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

#### Parsifal

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #155 on: August 17, 2008, 02:43:44 AM »
Light can be assigned a mass though, replace one of the masses with the equation: h(nu)/c2 and you will get your result

We are discussing whether Newton's theory of gravity agrees with General Relativity. The equivalence of mass and energy was not fully understood until 218 years after Newton published his thoughts on gravitation.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

#### Jack

• 5179
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #156 on: August 17, 2008, 03:11:10 AM »
Light can be assigned a mass though, replace one of the masses with the equation: h(nu)/c2 and you will get your result
But photons are massless.

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#### cbarnett97

• 2746
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #157 on: August 17, 2008, 03:22:02 AM »
Light can be assigned a mass though, replace one of the masses with the equation: h(nu)/c2 and you will get your result
But photons are massless.
they can be given a relativistic mass through that equation
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

#### Jack

• 5179
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #158 on: August 17, 2008, 03:24:37 AM »
they can be given a relativistic mass through that equation
It is rather simple, you first need to find the energy of the photon and you do this by taking Planck's constant(h) and multiplying it by the frequency of the wave(nu) then you set it equal to Einsteins equation
Like this
1)E=h(nu)
2)E=mc2

then put them together
h(nu)=mc2

the only unknown you will end up with will be the mass so you solve for "m"
now you have the mass of a photon and you can calculate gravitational fields with it all you want
You mean this?

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#### Dark Knight

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #159 on: August 17, 2008, 03:41:52 AM »
Racism?  Thats an abreviation, ok The Japanees.  but if you want to blow off the question and call it racism then thats fine.  If I call a person from Britian a Brit or a person from russia a russian, that isn't racist.  Jap is short for Japanees and that doesn't reference a race, Japan is a country.  Oriental is the race.
He who goes to bed with itchy but, wakes up with stinky finger.

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#### Fletch

• 276
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #160 on: August 17, 2008, 04:33:19 AM »
Racism?  Thats an abreviation, ok The Japanees.  but if you want to blow off the question and call it racism then thats fine.  If I call a person from Britian a Brit or a person from russia a russian, that isn't racist.  Jap is short for Japanees and that doesn't reference a race, Japan is a country.  Oriental is the race.

Firstly, it's spelt Japanese.
Secondly, Brit and Russian are established and acceptable words. Jap is slang and derogatory.
Lastly, Asian is the race you're thinking of. Oriental refers to a location (the Orient) in the same way that Japanese refers to Japan.
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#### TheEngineer

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #161 on: August 17, 2008, 08:03:32 AM »
So no equations yet?
FE = ma - R
RE = mg - R

Wow, look at that!

"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
-- Bob Hudson

#### sokarul

• 19303
• Extra Racist
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #162 on: August 17, 2008, 08:12:58 AM »
FOR, in the FET terminal velocity means the objects acceleration matches the earths.  These are obviously accelerating.
Where is the complication?

Quote
So once again, you apply the EP wrong and now can't back it up.  Typical you, pseudoengineer.
I didn't apply the EP in that post.  Perhaps you should read it before you make an ass out of yourself.  Oh, wait, it's way too late for that.

Stop hiding from the question.  Why is the guy in your sig accelerating upwards?  I know you can't answer that.
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#### TheEngineer

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #163 on: August 17, 2008, 08:29:39 AM »
Stop hiding from the question.  Why is the guy in your sig accelerating upwards?  I know you can't answer that.
He is accelerating upwards because he is in contact with the Earth.  He wants to follow an inertial path through space, but is not being allowed to.

"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
-- Bob Hudson

#### sokarul

• 19303
• Extra Racist
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #164 on: August 17, 2008, 08:33:08 AM »
Stop hiding from the question.  Why is the guy in your sig accelerating upwards?  I know you can't answer that.
He is accelerating upwards because he is in contact with the Earth.  He wants to follow an inertial path through space, but is not being allowed to.

He is still not accelerating upwards.  He is being held down by a physical acceleration.
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#### WardoggKC130FE

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #165 on: August 17, 2008, 09:21:38 AM »
No, it doesn't. Gravity only affects things with mass. Photons are massless. Light composes of photons. Gravity can't affect light.

Get smarter.

What about black holes?  Serious question.

Arent black holes so dense that the gravity is so great that not even light can escape?

I feel so ignored.

#### Jack

• 5179
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #166 on: August 17, 2008, 09:28:34 AM »
1 Gravitation, unlike gravity, can affect light.
2 Black hole has gravitation, not gravity.
3 The gravitational field of a black hole is too great.
-----
4 Therefore, light cannot escape from a black hole.

#### WardoggKC130FE

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #167 on: August 17, 2008, 09:36:36 AM »
Isn't gravitation caused by gravity?

#### WardoggKC130FE

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #168 on: August 17, 2008, 09:37:57 AM »
Gravity - The gravitational attraction of the mass of the earth, the moon, or a planet for bodies at or near its surface (2): a fundamental physical force that is responsible for interactions which occur because of mass between particles, between aggregations of matter (as stars and planets), and between particles (as photons) and aggregations of matter, that is 10-39 times the strength of the strong force, and that extends over infinite distances but is dominant over macroscopic distances especially between aggregations of matter —called also gravitation, gravitational force

#### divito the truthist

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #169 on: August 17, 2008, 09:41:12 AM »
Isn't gravitation caused by gravity?

No.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
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#### WardoggKC130FE

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #170 on: August 17, 2008, 09:48:12 AM »
Not according to the definition posted.

#### Jack

• 5179
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #171 on: August 17, 2008, 09:57:29 AM »
Apparently, the dude who wrote that definition probably knew nothing about General Relativity. Or, the definition is wrong.

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#### cbarnett97

• 2746
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #172 on: August 17, 2008, 10:10:39 AM »
So no equations yet?
FE = ma - R
RE = mg - R

Wow, look at that!
Wow you need to work on your coordinate system that is just really sad, all that time and that is the best you can do
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

#### Parsifal

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #173 on: August 17, 2008, 10:11:45 AM »
He is still not accelerating upwards.  He is being held down by a physical acceleration.

No, he is accelerating upwards. If you want to experience an inertial frame of reference, jump off a cliff. You'll have a good few seconds to appreciate the freefall.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

#### sokarul

• 19303
• Extra Racist
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #174 on: August 17, 2008, 10:14:07 AM »
He is still not accelerating upwards.  He is being held down by a physical acceleration.

No, he is accelerating upwards. If you want to experience an inertial frame of reference, jump off a cliff. You'll have a good few seconds to appreciate the freefall.

Nope
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#### Parsifal

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #175 on: August 17, 2008, 10:25:24 AM »
Nope

So you don't believe that General Relativity is correct?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

#### sokarul

• 19303
• Extra Racist
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #176 on: August 17, 2008, 10:36:34 AM »
Nope

So you don't believe that General Relativity is correct?

GR does not make such claims.
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#### Parsifal

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##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #177 on: August 17, 2008, 10:40:17 AM »
GR does not make such claims.

I am quite certain that it does, however as my knowledge on the subject is too limited to justify this position further, I shall leave it to those more educated (such as TheEngineer) to illuminate your stupidity from here onward.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

#### Jack

• 5179
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #178 on: August 17, 2008, 10:45:00 AM »
Quote
No, he is accelerating upwards. If you want to experience an inertial frame of reference, jump off a cliff. You'll have a good few seconds to appreciate the freefall.

Nope
So free fall is no longer an inertial motion?

#### sokarul

• 19303
• Extra Racist
##### Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #179 on: August 17, 2008, 11:17:55 AM »
Quote
No, he is accelerating upwards. If you want to experience an inertial frame of reference, jump off a cliff. You'll have a good few seconds to appreciate the freefall.

Nope
So free fall is no longer an inertial motion?

Nope to the "No, he is accelerating upwards." part.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.