Physics, where's the force?

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OccamsRazor

Physics, where's the force?
« on: August 15, 2008, 08:22:05 AM »
I'll play along, even though I believe the majority of the people are FE's because they just want the attention, and they do not actually believe this theory.

But for those that believe, here is a simple question I have after browsing your FAQ

Where does this Univeral Acceleration Force come from?

I can't believe that any true FE's know much about physics so I will try to be as simple as possible.

Force = Mass x Accelartion (I hope you all believe in that).

Therefore if the Earth (with mass A is accelerating upwards at 9.8 meter per second squared), there must be a force acting upon it, which I am guess FE's call the Universal Acceleration Force.

Now, in the FAQ, it was asked how comes the earth is not moving at the speed of light.

Quick numbers.  The speed of light is 300,000 km/s  or 300,000,000 m/s (300 million)

From a standstill, it would take the "flat earth" 30,612,244 seconds or 510,204 minutes or 8503 hours, or 354 days, or roughly 1 year to reach the speed of light.

I am not going debate the age of the earth, but FE's have to agree that we are at the very least, we must be traveling 2008 times the speed of light, and adding speed every second.

Now, the FAQ says that FE'rs believe in Special Relativity, that nothing can reach the speed of light, and that Special Relativity somehow proves we can constantly accelerate and not reach the speed of light.

So I thought, at least for the FAQ sake, I would try to explain special relativity very simply.

E=mc squared.  Or Energy = Mass x speed of light squared.

Meaning a lot of energy can create a little mass.
When you break the equation down, the special relativity states that as an object moves faster (approaches the speed of light), the mass increases.  Mass being the resistance to acceleration as we saw earlier in Force = Mass x Acceleration.

So this Universal Force Acceleration (is this also infinitely increasing as well?) Because Special Relativity says the Flat Earth and the mass on it is increasing.

So the question I have is where is the energy coming from, and how much is out there. 

Especially figuring that there is not enough energy in the Universe to make a mass object reach the speed of light, as the closer you get to c (speed of light) the magnitude of the mass exponentially increases.

FE'rs don't believe in the Earth's Gravity.  They must not believe in Special Relativity, because if they do the above starts becoming impossible.  Please just discard Special Relativity, I don't know why your FAQ hangs on, if you throw grafity out the window, why not SR?

So the next question is based on throwing out SR?
Do FE'rs believe in the speed of light?

Light (or photons) have no mass.  You can't accelerate them.  so if the Earch now moving at a minimum of 2008 times the speed of light.

If you took a flashlight, and pointed at your face you would not see the light.  The light doesn't move with the Earth, it has no mass you can't speed up something that doesn't have mass.  So when the switch is turned on the flashlight, the body, and the earth are moving at 2008 times the speed of light (and moving faster), but the light will be moving at 1 times the speed of light.  We will be 2008 times ahead of it you can't see it.

Well, enjoy your rebuttals.  This is just one aspect of about 300 that can disprove Flat Earth Theory.

Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is more often the correct solution.


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Sir_Drainsalot

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 08:25:11 AM »
From a standstill, it would take the "flat earth" 30,612,244 seconds or 510,204 minutes or 8503 hours, or 354 days, or roughly 1 year to reach the speed of light.

What equation did you use in this calculation?


Quote
but FE's have to agree that we are at the very least, we must be traveling 2008 times the speed of light

They certainly do not have to agree to this.




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divito the truthist

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2008, 08:31:00 AM »
Special Relativity forbids the Earth from surpassing the speed of light.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
Quote from: Fortuna
objectively good

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OccamsRazor

My equation and SR
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2008, 09:08:09 AM »
9.8 meter per second squared.  Means in one second we are traveling 9.8m/s and in 2 seconds we are traveling at 19.6 m/s ...and so on.

speed of light is 300,000 kilometer/second or 300,000,000 meters/second

Take 300 million divided by 9.8 and you get the seconds it would take a constant accelerating body going 9.8 meters per second squared to hit 300,000,000 meters per second,

or

the speed of light.

It is roughly 1 year.

Special Relativity does not prove the earth can not reach the speed of light.  Please show me the proof?

Special Relativity PROVES that as a an object approaches the speed of light, the mass increases.  Increases exponentially, meaning by a number so large it is unfathomable.  Meaning the Force now needed to keep up the "Acceleration" is now unfathomable.

However, FE'rs say the earth is always going 9.8 meters per second squared, that is how they explain that there is no gravity, we just feel the acceleration of the earth.

I hate to break it to all you Flat Earthers but speed is speed.  You guys don't want to believe in gravity, so therefore you have to say we are acceleratin up.

We can't just decrease acceleration as we approach the speed of light, because "Special Relativity" says we can't reach the speed of light.  Because if the acceleration decrease the force that the flat earther's claim is gravity, will be less as well.

Bottom line.  You Flat Earthers need to completely throw Special Relativity out.  You can't believe in it.  If you did, then the Earth is not accelerating up.

I SUGGEST YOU FIND ANOTHER WAY to explain the 'phenomenon' we Round Earther's call gravity.

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semperround

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Re: My equation and SR
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2008, 09:21:28 AM »
9.8 meter per second squared.  Means in one second we are traveling 9.8m/s and in 2 seconds we are traveling at 19.6 m/s ...and so on.

speed of light is 300,000 kilometer/second or 300,000,000 meters/second

Take 300 million divided by 9.8 and you get the seconds it would take a constant accelerating body going 9.8 meters per second squared to hit 300,000,000 meters per second,

or

the speed of light.

It is roughly 1 year.

Special Relativity does not prove the earth can not reach the speed of light.  Please show me the proof?

Special Relativity PROVES that as a an object approaches the speed of light, the mass increases.  Increases exponentially, meaning by a number so large it is unfathomable.  Meaning the Force now needed to keep up the "Acceleration" is now unfathomable.

However, FE'rs say the earth is always going 9.8 meters per second squared, that is how they explain that there is no gravity, we just feel the acceleration of the earth.

I hate to break it to all you Flat Earthers but speed is speed.  You guys don't want to believe in gravity, so therefore you have to say we are acceleratin up.

We can't just decrease acceleration as we approach the speed of light, because "Special Relativity" says we can't reach the speed of light.  Because if the acceleration decrease the force that the flat earther's claim is gravity, will be less as well.

Bottom line.  You Flat Earthers need to completely throw Special Relativity out.  You can't believe in it.  If you did, then the Earth is not accelerating up.

I SUGGEST YOU FIND ANOTHER WAY to explain the 'phenomenon' we Round Earther's call gravity.
yeah, i did this one already.http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=3152.msg28574#msg28574
an vir

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TheEngineer

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Re: My equation and SR
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2008, 10:24:01 AM »
Special Relativity does not prove the earth can not reach the speed of light.  Please show me the proof?
w=(u+v)/(1+uv/c^2)
Where u is the earth's current velocity, v is 9.8m/s (due to the earth accelerating at 9.8m/s^2 for one second), c is the speed of light, and w is the new velocity.

Start at u=0 and let me know how long it takes to reach the speed of light.


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datascat

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2008, 10:50:17 AM »
'u' can't be 0 as it's not possible for anything to be absolutely stationary.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2008, 10:51:37 AM »
Use 1 then.  Use any number less than the speed of light.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Sir_Drainsalot

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2008, 10:51:59 AM »
Fine, start at u=1 then.

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datascat

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2008, 11:07:38 AM »
Shouldn't be to much trouble with a relevant formula.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2008, 11:08:54 AM »
I gave you the relevant formula. 


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datascat

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2008, 11:14:24 AM »
How can you use acceleration as a fixed velocity?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2008, 11:16:54 AM »
What?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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datascat

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2008, 11:32:58 AM »
v makes no sense. v is the figure traveling away from u in this case. It can't be 9.8 as it never could have been 0 at the start of that second, which you seem to have arbitrarily made up. I don't see anywhere in that formula a provision for using acceleration as a fixed velocity on the premise that you've made up a time for it to accelerate.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2008, 11:47:39 AM »
It is the addition of velocities.  One is the velocity of the Earth, the other is the velocity the Earth would gain from accelerating at 9.8m/s^2 for one second from proper acceleration.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2008, 02:04:42 PM »
It is the addition of velocities.  One is the velocity of the Earth, the other is the velocity the Earth would gain from accelerating at 9.8m/s^2 for one second from proper acceleration.
and what will be the proper acceleration from that FoR?
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2008, 02:32:29 PM »
9.8m/s^2, obviously.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2008, 02:45:50 PM »
9.8m/s^2, obviously.
So for any FoR the acceleration will be 9.8m/s2
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2008, 02:47:47 PM »
Uh, no.  That is the proper acceleration.  Which is what you asked for.  ???


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2008, 02:51:43 PM »
Uh, no.  That is the proper acceleration.  Which is what you asked for.  ???
my mistake I meant proper as in correct not as in proper

so what will the acceleration to be from any FoR?
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2008, 02:53:15 PM »
my mistake I meant proper as in correct not as in proper
You meant 'proper' not as in 'proper'?  Wow. 




"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2008, 02:56:48 PM »
my mistake I meant proper as in correct not as in proper
You meant 'proper' not as in 'proper'?  Wow. 



So what acceleration gets used for any FoR
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2008, 03:06:33 PM »
Acceleration for what?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2008, 03:08:58 PM »
Acceleration for what?
if it is too complicated for you I can slow down a bit
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2008, 03:13:21 PM »
Well, it would help if you knew how to communicate.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 03:20:48 PM by TheEngineer »


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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cbarnett97

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Re: My equation and SR
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2008, 03:16:02 PM »
Special Relativity does not prove the earth can not reach the speed of light.  Please show me the proof?
w=(u+v)/(1+uv/c^2)
Where u is the earth's current velocity, v is 9.8m/s (due to the earth accelerating at 9.8m/s^2 for one second), c is the speed of light, and w is the new velocity.

Start at u=0 and let me know how long it takes to reach the speed of light.
Since V in your equation is based upon the acceleration of the earth what velocity (acceleration) should we use for and FoR
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: My equation and SR
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2008, 03:17:23 PM »
Since V in your equation is based upon the acceleration of the earth what velocity (acceleration) should we use for and FoR
Well, it would help you knew how to communicate.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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cbarnett97

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Re: My equation and SR
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2008, 03:18:28 PM »
Since V in your equation is based upon the acceleration of the earth what velocity (acceleration) should we use for and FoR
Well, it would help you knew how to communicate.
I love it when some pokes fun of someones grammer with horrible grammer of their own
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: My equation and SR
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2008, 03:21:36 PM »
I love it when some<one> pokes fun of someones grammer with horrible grammer of their own
Now about that acceleration thing...


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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cbarnett97

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Re: My equation and SR
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2008, 03:24:50 PM »
I love it when some<one> pokes fun of someones grammer with horrible grammer of their own
Now about that acceleration thing...
you are the one that is saying that we can use the proper acceleration felt on earth and just use it for any inertial FoR
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.