Physics, where's the force?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2008, 03:27:58 PM »
Right...that is the point.   ???


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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2008, 03:30:02 PM »
Right...that is the point.   ???
Since when can you do that?
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2008, 03:30:54 PM »
Because the acceleration is...proper...


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2008, 03:36:08 PM »
Because the acceleration is...proper...
So if I am in a different FoR it will always be 9.8m/s/s in relation to that new FoR
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2008, 03:37:55 PM »
You don't actually know what proper means, do you?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2008, 03:39:13 PM »
You don't actually know what proper means, do you?
It looks like you do not know what it means
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2008, 03:40:40 PM »
So that is a 'no', then?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2008, 03:41:52 PM »
So that is a 'no', then?
So your belief is that a0 is always equal to a?
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Josef

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2008, 03:42:52 PM »
Where does this Univeral Acceleration Force come from?

Me me me! Pick me! *raises hand*
Its dark matter!
Ooompa ooompa

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2008, 03:46:51 PM »
So your belief is that a0 is always equal to a?
Proper anything is always equal to the quantity measured in the proper frame.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2008, 03:48:09 PM »
So your belief is that a0 is always equal to a?
Proper anything is always equal to the quantity measured in the proper frame.
No word games here, I will ask a simple question:
Do you believe that a0 is always equal to a
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2008, 03:50:14 PM »
The proper acceleration will always be the acceleration measured in the proper frame.  That is about as clear as it can get.  Do you need me to slow down so you can catch up?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2008, 03:51:26 PM »
The proper acceleration will always be the acceleration measured in the proper frame.  That is about as clear as it can get.  Do you need me to slow down so you can catch up?
So how does that answer my question
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2008, 03:53:58 PM »
It answers it perfectly.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2008, 03:57:21 PM »
It answers it perfectly.
Let me make sure I understand your belief here perfectly

Proper acceleration that we feel on the surface of the earth will always be measured to be the same regardless of the FoR that we are at. Be it on the surface, 100mi away, 3Ly away or looking at it from different directions the acceleration will be always me measured a 9.81m/s/s
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2008, 04:01:24 PM »
No.

Like I said, you don't know what the definition of proper is.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2008, 04:12:31 PM »
No.

Like I said, you don't know what the definition of proper is.
I know what proper is perfectly fine, you are the one making the claim that proper acceleration will be the same for all observers
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2008, 04:45:10 PM »
No.

Like I said, you don't know what the definition of proper is.
I know what proper is perfectly fine, you are the one making the claim that proper acceleration will be the same for all observers

He's just going to keep avoiding the issue with semantics no matter how you phrase it, it will never be "answered" because they don't know

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2008, 04:47:24 PM »
No.

Like I said, you don't know what the definition of proper is.
I know what proper is perfectly fine, you are the one making the claim that proper acceleration will be the same for all observers

He's just going to keep avoiding the issue with semantics no matter how you phrase it, it will never be "answered" because they don't know
That is what I am trying to show, that when it comes down to it he does not as much as people give him credit for
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Robbyj

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2008, 05:37:39 PM »
No.

Like I said, you don't know what the definition of proper is.
I know what proper is perfectly fine, you are the one making the claim that proper acceleration will be the same for all observers

Proper is only proper in the proper FoR.
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

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Robbyj

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Re: My equation and SR
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2008, 05:45:19 PM »
Since V in your equation is based upon the acceleration of the earth what velocity (acceleration) should we use for and FoR

And just for the record, that's not his equation, that's the equation.

Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2008, 06:01:59 PM »
I know what proper is perfectly fine, you are the one making the claim that proper acceleration will be the same for all observers
I have not claimed that at all.  Not even once.  You are the one having the problem understanding what proper means.

That is what I am trying to show, that when it comes down to it he does not as much as people give him credit for
And in the end, all you are accomplishing is making yourself out to be an idiot.  Talk about a plan blowing up in your face...


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2008, 06:31:03 PM »
I know what proper is perfectly fine, you are the one making the claim that proper acceleration will be the same for all observers
I have not claimed that at all.  Not even once.  You are the one having the problem understanding what proper means.

That is what I am trying to show, that when it comes down to it he does not as much as people give him credit for
And in the end, all you are accomplishing is making yourself out to be an idiot.  Talk about a plan blowing up in your face...
So how about you clearly answer the question then, for an observer not on the earth what value for acceleration should they use to calculate the velocity of the earth from their FoR
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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kainedamo

Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2008, 06:47:40 PM »
I wouldn't expect a decent answer.  He gave a cop out answer in my thread as well.

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2008, 06:53:16 PM »
I asked this:
So your belief is that a0 is always equal to a?
Proper anything is always equal to the quantity measured in the proper frame.
No word games here, I will ask a simple question:
Do you believe that a0 is always equal to a
And You gave this as your answer

The proper acceleration will always be the acceleration measured in the proper frame.  That is about as clear as it can get.  Do you need me to slow down so you can catch up?
I see no misunderstanding on our part, either you did not see the subscript by the first "a" or you did not understand the difference between the 2 terms, and since other people seemed to recognize the term we must figure the second condition is the true statement.
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Robbyj

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2008, 07:02:43 PM »
He isn't saying that a0=a in all reference frames.  You can use proper acceleration to obtain observed acceleration in any reference frame given the correct variables.
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2008, 07:05:35 PM »
He isn't saying that a0=a in all reference frames.  You can use proper acceleration to obtain observed acceleration in any reference frame given the correct variables.
I did not ask him if you could relate proper acceleration to an observed acceleration in any other FoR. I asked him if he believed they are equal, but instead of answering the question he just gave me a definition of proper acceleration again which really has nothing to do with the question put to him
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Robbyj

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2008, 07:07:48 PM »
I would take that as a no.
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

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CV

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2008, 07:12:54 PM »
I love this thread, it's facinating, but it would help the viewing audience if you would list your credentials.  MIT? Cal-Tech? CERN? What is your background/education in these fields?  I'm dying to know.  FE and RE alike. 

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cbarnett97

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Re: Physics, where's the force?
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2008, 07:16:08 PM »
I would take that as a no.
Then why does he use it as a constant? for any FoR
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.