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Long John Pastry

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« on: May 06, 2006, 07:25:03 PM »
OK, I'll be serious this time.

How did the earth become flat, when the naturally assumed state of all matter is a sphere?  i.e. the drop of water below.



Notice how the top of the water is forced into a cone because of gravity pulling the bottom downward? I believe your reasoning for this not happening to the earth is an opposing force, or simply the durability of the earth due to its mass.

So my next question is, how is the earth not torn asunder by the opposing gravitational forces, if the earth itself generates no gravity or magnetic field?  Also, since the earth doesn't produce gravity of it's own, then why would there be pressure underground to create magma?  If the illusion of gravity is generated by the earth's entire mass moving at uniform speed, then anything pushed downward should simply displace equal volume on the other side of the earth.  That would be especially true if there is an opposing force holding the earth in shape by pulling on the other side.

If the sun is only a spotlight, how does it put out such a tremendous amount of radiation?  Nuclear reactions couldn't possibly explain it, with the sun only being 32 miles in diameter.  How is it that such an insignifigant mass can produce gravity, but something as huge as the earth does not?

Ah well, I'm done for the moment. :lol:

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Erasmus

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Re: Questions
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2006, 08:26:11 PM »
Quote from: "Long John Pastry"
How did the earth become flat, when the naturally assumed state of all matter is a sphere?


Cool picture.  Please justify this "natural state" claim.  Sounds very similar to Aristotelean thinking that for example, the "natural state" of rocks is "on the ground"; hence rocks fall.

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Also, since the earth doesn't produce gravity of it's own, then why would there be pressure underground to create magma?


Because the illusory gravity causes the stuff on top to press the stuff below.  Like, imagine you were in a rocket accelerating at a very high rate; you would be smushed to the back wall.  Similarly, rocks are smushed under the Earth, this creates friction which is released as heat, and the heat melts the rocks.

Also, the Earth isn't warm solely because of friction.  There're also radioactive materials in the crust that create a significant amount of heat.

So yeah, you'd still get magma.

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If the sun is only a spotlight, how does it put out such a tremendous amount of radiation?  Nuclear reactions couldn't possibly explain it, with the sun only being 32 miles in diameter.  How is it that such an insignifigant mass can produce gravity, but something as huge as the earth does not?


Nuclear reactions could totally explain it.  Nuclear reactions release lots and lots of energy -- the only reason the Earth doesn't evaporate in RE theory is that the sun -- which is big -- is so far away.  Bring the sun closer, and you can make it a lot cooler an still have it heating us as much as it does.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Tranquil

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Re: Questions
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2006, 08:32:18 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Long John Pastry"
How did the earth become flat, when the naturally assumed state of all matter is a sphere?


Cool picture.  Please justify this "natural state" claim.  Sounds very similar to Aristotelean thinking that for example, the "natural state" of rocks is "on the ground"; hence rocks fall.

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It has been proven in a vacuum that water forms spheres since it has no where else to go.

I'm lucky enough to have visted NASA and some other private Vacuum silos.  It was a nifty field trip.  I can verify that it was indeed water since the water placed in the vacuum was that of my Deer Park water bottle I purchased at Giant Eagle supermarket.

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Gustave5436

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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2006, 08:39:02 PM »
water has like surface tension or something, so it pulls itself into a ball.  That is just a property of the chemical, not of the universe

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Long John Pastry

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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2006, 07:30:59 AM »
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Cool picture. Please justify this "natural state" claim. Sounds very similar to Aristotelean thinking that for example, the "natural state" of rocks is "on the ground"; hence rocks fall.


Like I said, when you have any bunch of matter that gathers together naturally by interior or exterior forces, it's formation is going to be a sphere.  Take a piece of clay for instance.  Cup your hands and apply even pressure to all sides as best you can, and it will form something similar to a ball.  For matter to gather together in a form other then that of a sphere, and maintain that shape, it has to have uneven amounts of pressure applied to it at different points.  A disc-shaped earth would require a very specific and even amount of pressure, applied exactly parallel to both sides of the earth.  Too much, and you'd get a thin pancake.  Too little, and the internal pressures would force it in the direction of a sphere shape.

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Because the illusory gravity causes the stuff on top to press the stuff below. Like, imagine you were in a rocket accelerating at a very high rate; you would be smushed to the back wall. Similarly, rocks are smushed under the Earth, this creates friction which is released as heat, and the heat melts the rocks.

Also, the Earth isn't warm solely because of friction. There're also radioactive materials in the crust that create a significant amount of heat.


That doesn't answer the other parts of that question though.  If the pressure was merely on the top half of the earth, then why doesn't the stuff in the center simply get displaced to the other side.  In other words, at the very least, the magma should be coming out the other side.  Worst case would be the earth begins to take a bowl like shape, and eventually breaks in half, or forms a hole in the center.

Now that being said, if there's a pressure on the opposite side of the earth, which keeps matter distribution from the center even between our side and the other side, what is it?  It would have to exhibit a huge amount of pressure.  The FE theory says that the sun and moon give off only small amounts of gravity.  So what in the universe could push the earth from behind forcefully enough to keep it flat and even, while the earth is traveling at many times the speed of light, due to its constant acceleration towards the dark matter.

Also, I didn't really ask this, but the earth has signifigantly more mass then the sun and moon.  If the sun and moon produce gravity at such pathetically small sizes, then why does the earth not produce gravity?

You claim there are radioactive materials that increase the earth's temperature from below the surface.  Why don't huge amounts of this material come to the surface with volcanic activity?  If it does, why wasn't 90% of the population near Mt. Everest striken with deadly amounts of radiation?

It takes a huge amount of pressure to cause radioactive materials to naturally produce nuclear explosions.  The pressures on the earth would have to be signifigantly greater then that of the sun to maintain it's shape, so why haven't these pressures caused the earth to become a thermonuclear torch, a.k.a. a sun?

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Nuclear reactions could totally explain it. Nuclear reactions release lots and lots of energy -- the only reason the Earth doesn't evaporate in RE theory is that the sun -- which is big -- is so far away. Bring the sun closer, and you can make it a lot cooler an still have it heating us as much as it does.


Sounds like you're thinking the sun is the same thing the RE theory has but only 32 miles in diameter.

Assuming that's true, the amount of pure heat put out by the sun could be explained by that, but not the other radiation.  Some types of radiation would actually be increased.  I'm sure you've seen films and reenactments of nukes going off that were a few hundred kilotons.  From 20 miles away, those things look like camera flashers.  If you placed a constantly recurring 1000 megaton thermonuclear explosion a few thousand miles away, and you had direct line of sight to it, you'd go blind just by being in the area.

You never answered my question regarding why the sun has gravity, but the earth does not.  I'm also wondering where such a small sun would get the fuel to burn for the last 5000 years as well.

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Erasmus

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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2006, 10:30:42 AM »
Quote from: "Long John Pastry"
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Cool picture. Please justify this "natural state" claim. Sounds very similar to Aristotelean thinking that for example, the "natural state" of rocks is "on the ground"; hence rocks fall.


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Like I said, when you have any bunch of matter that gathers together naturally by interior or exterior forces, it's formation is going to be a sphere.  Take a piece of clay for instance.  Cup your hands and apply even pressure to all sides as best you can, and it will form something similar to a ball.


Aha -- you do realize then that "even pressure to all sides" is required for formation of a sphere.  But the forces acting on the flat Earth are only those generated by / causing its upward acceleration.  i.e. there are no forces acting laterally.  Or perhaps there are some, but they are of differing orders of magnitude of the vertical force.

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If the pressure was merely on the top half of the earth, then why doesn't the stuff in the center simply get displaced to the other side.


It's like this.  Everything is getting pushed upwards from below.  Except for being pushed, the stuff of the Earth would tend to maintain its velocity.  It's just like any acceleration you feel -- you get compressed in the direction tangent to the acceleration.

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while the earth is traveling at many times the speed of light,


Don't say that.

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If the sun and moon produce gravity at such pathetically small sizes, then why does the earth not produce gravity?


It's made of different stuff?

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You claim there are radioactive materials that increase the earth's temperature from below the surface.  Why don't huge amounts of this material come to the surface with volcanic activity?


Because the amounts aren't huge.

Please see this article.  Know your Earth.

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The pressures on the earth would have to be signifigantly greater then that of the sun to maintain it's shape,


Please show your calculations.

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the amount of pure heat put out by the sun could be explained by that, but not the other radiation.


What do you think heat is?

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Some types of radiation would actually be increased.


Which types?  Why?  What types are there, btw?

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If you placed a constantly recurring 1000 megaton thermonuclear explosion a few thousand miles away, and you had direct line of sight to it, you'd go blind just by being in the area.


Yep.  That happens.  That's why your parents told you not to look directly at the sun.

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I'm also wondering where such a small sun would get the fuel to burn for the last 5000 years as well.


Me too!  A white hole, perhaps?

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2006, 12:13:25 PM »
Quote from: "Gustave5436"
water has like surface tension or something, so it pulls itself into a ball.  That is just a property of the chemical, not of the universe


It has been proven (and I've seen video of it) that in zero gravity, even grains of sand, salt and so on even clump together and rotate.

But since I saw the video of it on the Science Channel, I dont think you Flat Earth people will believe it and claim it as a hoax.

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Gustave5436

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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2006, 12:16:31 PM »
wouldn't they (the grains of salt and whatnot) in zero gravity, be more attracted to the mass of the space shuttle or airplane, than to each other?  Or even attracted to the mass of the person nearby, or in the absence of a person the camera.  All those things have far more mass than grains of salt or sand, and I know at least humans have an electric field

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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2006, 12:23:33 PM »
In the video I saw, the guy was just playing around and put all the grains of whatever each and every one of them was in the air around him. The grains were actually attracted towards eachother, and not anything else nearby. They were also spinning, and clumps were attracted towards eachother.

They didnt seem to be moving towards anything in particular so I'd have to say nope... but I'm no scientist I'm just going by what I saw on the footage they showed.

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Erasmus

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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2006, 05:21:47 PM »
Quote from: "Wow Just... Wow"
In the video I saw, the guy was just playing around and put all the grains of whatever each and every one of them was in the air around him. The grains were actually attracted towards eachother, and not anything else nearby. They were also spinning, and clumps were attracted towards eachother.


This sounds much more like an electromagnetic attraction than a gravitational one.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?