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What about high altitudes?

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2008, 11:15:47 PM »
Quote from: airwingmarine on August 14, 2008, 11:04:37 PM
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But back to my argument he would have to be oblivous not to see it.  I've seen it over the US, over Asia, over Europe, Africa, And australia, Along with over the pacific, atlantic and indian oceans.  I'm gona bet I have more hours up front than that guy does....

So left seat time then?
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airwingmarine

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2008, 11:16:54 PM »
Quote from: Mrs. Peach on August 14, 2008, 11:15:47 PM
Quote from: airwingmarine on August 14, 2008, 11:04:37 PM
[
But back to my argument he would have to be oblivous not to see it.  I've seen it over the US, over Asia, over Europe, Africa, And australia, Along with over the pacific, atlantic and indian oceans.  I'm gona bet I have more hours up front than that guy does....

So left seat time then?

Well the Herk has 4 seats up front.  I'm not a pilot I'm a navigator so I had a lot more time to look around  ;)
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2008, 11:18:52 PM »
Ahhhh.
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airwingmarine

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2008, 11:21:26 PM »
Quote from: Robbyj on August 14, 2008, 11:10:27 PM
Turns out that 10000 feet is the altitude limit in non -ressurized vessels for Ipods too.

Along with gelly ink pens, some watches, and anything preasurized in a weak container
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Robbyj

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2008, 11:22:33 PM »
Makes sense.
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Quote from: Raist on January 22, 2009, 09:27:08 PM
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2008, 11:32:37 PM »
While on hiatus from the mighty Hercules...I am temping on a Gulfstream GIV.  We cruise at 45,000 ft and I can assure you the horizon is still flat at that altitude.  We are well above all commercial traffic.
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airwingmarine

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2008, 11:36:01 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on August 14, 2008, 11:32:37 PM
While on hiatus from the mighty Hercules...I am temping on a Gulfstream GIV.  We cruise at 45,000 ft and I can assure you the horizon is still flat at that altitude.  We are well above all commercial traffic.

Can't remember the math I looked up for it (got in an argument in one of my physics classes about it) but basicly at a little over 30,000ft (10km) the curvature of the earth is equal to a 10m disc view from like 50 cm.  Most of the time the curve is masked by upper level clouds or topography.  This is why the herc is perfect to see it.  Our fat asses flew to low to be in the uper level clouds.

Also maybe since the Gulfstreams are way way way more streamline than the flat windows of the herc it distorts the image?  Just a guess I've never been up in one before.
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Robbyj

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2008, 11:49:11 PM »
I think the official number is in the ballpark of 75000 for our senses to detect any curvature whatsoever.
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Quote from: Raist on January 22, 2009, 09:27:08 PM
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2008, 12:02:52 AM »
Quote from: Robbyj on August 14, 2008, 11:49:11 PM
I think the official number is in the ballpark of 75000 for our senses to detect any curvature whatsoever.

I was thinking 60K but either way.....
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airwingmarine

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2008, 12:08:45 AM »
It's only a little above 10,000 ft.  You can see it from mountain tops in Montana, and deffinatly from Mount Everest.  Go read some of the excerpts from books from mountain climbers.  It's one of their favorite things about reaching the top.  How they feel like gods and blah blah blah because they can see the curvature of the earth.

I guess this will turn into telling someone who saw bigfoot or an alien they didn't see it though eh?  Not much reason in arguing the fact anymore....
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2008, 12:11:35 AM »
Since a regular ole 737 cruises at about 38,000ft, it would seem that most people would have seen it. Maybe my eyes are bad.
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airwingmarine

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2008, 12:15:22 AM »
Has mostly to do with the limited field of view and the distortion of the differnt pains.  Plus i've never seen a window that was clean and clear in a comercial airliner.

I got on and looked and I guess you can do it at sea lvl as long as your by an ocean and the waves arn't to big.  You take a level and a table and set it up.  Then you move the table to be even with the horizon and it is visible that way.  I just did a quick google search of "where can u see the curvature of the earth?" and looked at the 2nd and 5th results.  THe other talk about the sinking ship thing which isn't what we are.  They do throw out that 60k number in there too though.
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Robbyj

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2008, 12:16:13 AM »
Quote from: airwingmarine on August 15, 2008, 12:08:45 AM
I guess this will turn into telling someone who saw bigfoot or an alien they didn't see it though eh?  Not much reason in arguing the fact anymore....
I wouldn't take it that far but, people will for the most part see what they want to see, kind of like diagrams where there are two images and each individual may see one or the other.  
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Quote from: Raist on January 22, 2009, 09:27:08 PM
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?
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airwingmarine

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2008, 12:18:34 AM »
Quote from: Robbyj on August 15, 2008, 12:16:13 AM
Quote from: airwingmarine on August 15, 2008, 12:08:45 AM
I guess this will turn into telling someone who saw bigfoot or an alien they didn't see it though eh?  Not much reason in arguing the fact anymore....
I wouldn't take it that far but, people will for the most part see what they want to see, kind of like diagrams where there are two images and each individual may see one or the other.  

yeah the paint blot thing psycologists use, or what ever they are called in PC terms now a-days.
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Robbyj

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2008, 12:20:41 AM »
Nope, thats not what i'm talking about.  I'll see if I can find one.  If you have read 7 habits, theres one in there.
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Quote from: Raist on January 22, 2009, 09:27:08 PM
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Robbyj

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2008, 12:23:27 AM »


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Quote from: Raist on January 22, 2009, 09:27:08 PM
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Robbyj

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2008, 12:26:03 AM »
The question posed is how old is the woman in the picture.
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Quote from: Raist on January 22, 2009, 09:27:08 PM
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2008, 03:33:14 AM »
I always thought those were cool. Clue: the chin is key!
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non__believer

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2008, 05:56:01 AM »
Eh.. I kinda fail to see what the pics (although cool) have to do in this thread.. However, you can see the curvature of earth from a regular 747, but it requires a clear day, and a big, clean clear window.. Cockpit that is.. The concorde flew at 60k feet, and from there passengers could see it easy.

EDIT: got it.. see what you wanna see.. Missed those last few posts  :P
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airwingmarine

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2008, 08:28:44 AM »
Quote from: Robbyj on August 15, 2008, 12:26:03 AM
The question posed is how old is the woman in the picture.

I think another could be which direciton is her body facing...
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LogicIsBetter

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2008, 09:54:45 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 14, 2008, 09:35:23 PM
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I've been high enough to see the curvature of the earth.  You can do it on a few mountain tops in the US as well.  But anywase, most of you all get a little port hole on the side of the airplane, but when you get a panoramic view from up front at as low as 30,000 feet you can see the curvature of the earth.

Nope.

TheEngineer, a pilot who posts on this forum, tells us that the horizon of the earth is not curved from the air.

Quote:

    "I believe I said that I put myself through college working for an airline, thus having access to free flights around the world.  I also worked for a private FBO, in which the owner owned a Cessna Citation.  I am also a licensed pilot.  Not once, during any of the hundreds if not thousands of flights I've been on, have I ever witnessed the curvature of the Earth."

So if you agree with what someone posts on the forum, then that becomes accepted fact to you?  Interesting.

Here's a picture I took 19 years ago from a 747 over the Pacific ocean with a 50mm lens (i.e. normal perspective -- not wide angle). 



Here are my observations:
1.  The horizon in the picture is curved
2.  The sun's rays are not curved
3.  The plane's wing is not curved (maybe slightly upward from the bending caused by flight, but not like the horizon)
4.  The only distortion I see for sure is the squashing of the sun (which usually appears round) in to an oblate spheroid, presumably caused by the air.
5.  The bottom of the sun is getting cut off because it's disappearing behind the ocean.
6.  The sun does not appear to be 3000 miles above the plane.

If you claim the curve is caused by the distortion of the glass, then see #'s 2-3.

If you claim the curve is caused by the atmospheric distortion, then tell me why the squashed sun is symmetrical (except for the non-visible part) rather than distorted the same as the horizon.

If the sun circles over the disk of the earth at 3000 miles or so, then at roughly 6 miles above the ocean, it should still have been well above me.

The view from a regular passenger window of a 747 at ~35000-40000 feet is consistent with RET and not with FET.

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spacemanjones

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2008, 10:00:12 PM »
nice picture, but they are going to say you photoshoped it or they are going to find some grain or somthing that doesn't look right and discard the whole picture... i personaly see the curve, nice picture.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2008, 10:28:18 PM »
Look man Im with you, the earth is round.  But I have 4500 flight hours.  Most in a KC-130 and about a grand in a Gulfstream GIV (C-20G) the Herk cruises around 24K while the GIV is around 45K ft.  You CANNOT see the curvature from either of these altitudes.  Its a fact.  I don't why your picture looks the way it does (and its a nice pic btw =) ) but unless your in a U-2 or Spaceship One or Two your not going to see it flying around.
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Fletch

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2008, 10:50:21 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on August 16, 2008, 10:28:18 PM
I don't why your picture looks the way it does
It is a very nice pic. I assume you mean you don't see curvature looking through the cockpit windows? Could the curvature observed here be due to the side windows distortion?

Could the curvature observed here be because at sunset the longer waves of light are more easily distorted by the atmosphere, and show the natural curve of the earth more readily? Have you ever flown at Sunset and noticed any curvature as seen in this photo?
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2008, 11:31:08 PM »
Quote from: Fletch on August 16, 2008, 10:50:21 PM
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on August 16, 2008, 10:28:18 PM
I don't why your picture looks the way it does
It is a very nice pic. I assume you mean you don't see curvature looking through the cockpit windows? Could the curvature observed here be due to the side windows distortion?

Could the curvature observed here be because at sunset the longer waves of light are more easily distorted by the atmosphere, and show the natural curve of the earth more readily? Have you ever flown at Sunset and noticed any curvature as seen in this photo?

Ive flown sunset to sunrise or vice versa numerous times and have never seen a curve like that.  16hrs being my longest logged flight.  I would say that the curvature might be a distortion of the cabin windows.  More than likely.  I dont know much about wave lengths and whatnot so I couldn't answer that question.  The cockpit windows would be a more reliable view of the outside world.  You wouldn't want the pilot getting a distorted view of the outside world while he's trying to land would you?
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L84sch0oL2

Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2008, 01:27:18 AM »
Quote from: Fletch on August 16, 2008, 10:50:21 PM
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on August 16, 2008, 10:28:18 PM
I don't why your picture looks the way it does
It is a very nice pic. I assume you mean you don't see curvature looking through the cockpit windows? Could the curvature observed here be due to the side windows distortion?

Could the curvature observed here be because at sunset the longer waves of light are more easily distorted by the atmosphere, and show the natural curve of the earth more readily? Have you ever flown at Sunset and noticed any curvature as seen in this photo?

if you look at the horizon starting at the right, and follow the curve to the left, there is a little bit of black horizon sticking up above the "curved" horizon. my guess would be optical illusion. still, if the sun is supposed to be circling above us in a parallel orbit, why is it almost directly in front of the plane? seems like a no brainer to me :P
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LogicIsBetter

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2008, 04:59:37 AM »
Quote from: LogicIsBetter on August 16, 2008, 09:54:45 PM

If you claim the curve is caused by the distortion of the glass, then see #'s 2-3.

If you claim the curve is caused by the atmospheric distortion, then tell me why the squashed sun is symmetrical (except for the non-visible part) rather than distorted the same as the horizon.


The cabin glass does not distort the wing.
The atmosphere does not distort cities, fields and mountains seen from a plane.

Things often look different through a camera lens than to the naked eye.  The camera is actually more accurate in some ways, but I'll admit there can be optical illusions.  But I saw this curve personally.  I also saw it when I flew to Australia two years ago.

I just scanned this pic last night from the 19 year old print from my photo album.  I didn't alter it after scanning it.  I can take a picture of it with myself holding it still showing the curve as many times as you like, so I don't think the photoshop argument can hold water.

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spacemanjones

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2008, 05:42:57 AM »
Hey man i see it, and i think its real... but you wont change their minds.
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Fletch

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2008, 06:03:19 AM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on August 16, 2008, 10:28:18 PM
Look man Im with you, the earth is round.  But I have 4500 flight hours.  Most in a KC-130 and about a grand in a Gulfstream GIV (C-20G) the Herk cruises around 24K while the GIV is around 45K ft.  You CANNOT see the curvature from either of these altitudes.  Its a fact.
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LogicIsBetter

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Re: What about high altitudes?
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2008, 10:48:38 PM »
So no one who is a FEr is even going to respond to my picture and observations? 

It was stated matter of factly that you cannot see the curve of the earth from a commercial plane simply because someone else on this forum said so.  I signed up for your forum just so I could scan my picture and post it for you to see that you can see the curve. 

Please tell me how you explain it in FET. 




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