No motive, no case

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #120 on: September 09, 2008, 01:50:13 AM »
10 billion pounds includes their salary. For doing nothing. I would suggest what ever their salary is it would be all profit.
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PeopleOnBehalfOfLogic

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #121 on: September 09, 2008, 10:52:02 AM »
But the point is, they are spending the whole 10 billion maintaining the conspiracy.
Just noticed my name is actually pretty insulting. Apologies.

Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #122 on: September 09, 2008, 12:15:54 PM »
Are you kidding? Sputnik was the size of a basket ball. No one could see it even if it really was in orbit.

That makes it probably the size of your "energy motes" that are perfectly visible at distances that are significantly greater.

Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #123 on: September 09, 2008, 04:00:04 PM »
But the point is, they are spending the whole 10 billion maintaining the conspiracy.
So?
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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #124 on: September 09, 2008, 07:04:10 PM »
So?
[/quote]

So, if you have to spend 10 Billion dollars in salaries, contracts to other conspirators, false spacecraft, maintenance of secret bases overseas (the shuttle has to go somewhere after all), and all of those other annoying costs associated with the maintenance of the conspiracy, there wouldn't be the money left over to make this profitable.

Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #125 on: September 09, 2008, 09:46:16 PM »
So?
So, if you have to spend 10 Billion dollars in salaries, contracts to other conspirators, false spacecraft, maintenance of secret bases overseas (the shuttle has to go somewhere after all), and all of those other annoying costs associated with the maintenance of the conspiracy, there wouldn't be the money left over to make this profitable.

10 billion pounds includes their salary. For doing nothing. I would suggest what ever their salary is it would be all profit.
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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #126 on: September 10, 2008, 04:08:07 AM »
10 billion pounds includes their salary. For doing nothing. I would suggest what ever their salary is it would be all profit.

So?

Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #127 on: September 10, 2008, 07:10:48 AM »
10 billion pounds includes their salary. For doing nothing. I would suggest what ever their salary is it would be all profit.

So?
Exactly.
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markjo

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #128 on: September 10, 2008, 07:40:01 AM »
Just out of curiosity, if the whole point of the conspiracy is money, then why have a public space program at all?  Instead of broadcasting launches on live TV, wouldn't it be a whole lot easier and cheaper to do nothing and just say that the launch was from a secret, remote location for safety/security reasons?  That's pretty much the way the Russians did it for a bunch of years.
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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #129 on: September 10, 2008, 07:52:20 AM »
The best part is all those kids that grow up wanting to be astronauts that eventually make it up through the ranks only to find out that it's all fake. Then of course they accept that and become part of the conspiricy because, "Hey, it pays a good salary". Never mind our dreams of space that drove us to get here. No way would any of them get angry and let everyone know about the conspiricy. Although I imagine NASA would have them killed if they seemed like they might leak. And fake NASA must be the absolute best place to work in the whole freakin world to not ever had a gisgruntled employee. And I guess they never fired anyone. I'll bet that lady that drove all that way in diapers to kill someone is scared to death to tell anyone about the conspiracy.

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divito the truthist

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #130 on: September 10, 2008, 08:52:09 AM »
Just out of curiosity, if the whole point of the conspiracy is money, then why have a public space program at all?  Instead of broadcasting launches on live TV, wouldn't it be a whole lot easier and cheaper to do nothing and just say that the launch was from a secret, remote location for safety/security reasons?  That's pretty much the way the Russians did it for a bunch of years.

All launches (all) by NASA are televised? All research projects are televised?
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markjo

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #131 on: September 10, 2008, 09:03:54 AM »
Just out of curiosity, if the whole point of the conspiracy is money, then why have a public space program at all?  Instead of broadcasting launches on live TV, wouldn't it be a whole lot easier and cheaper to do nothing and just say that the launch was from a secret, remote location for safety/security reasons?  That's pretty much the way the Russians did it for a bunch of years.

All launches (all) by NASA are televised? All research projects are televised?

All of the manned launches are.  I don't get NASA-TV, so I don't know how many unmanned launches are televised.  And yes, certain key events from research projects are televised (first pictures from Mars, Titan, etc) from time to time.  It just seems a bit strange that a "fake" space program would have such a large PR presence.
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divito the truthist

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #132 on: September 10, 2008, 09:10:05 AM »
All of the manned launches are.  I don't get NASA-TV, so I don't know how many unmanned launches are televised.  And yes, certain key events from research projects are televised (first pictures from Mars, Titan, etc) from time to time.  It just seems a bit strange that a "fake" space program would have such a large PR presence.

Well, lack of results and public interest would probably yield less for the annual budget. That's probably one of the few plausible reasons I see for it being public.
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markjo

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #133 on: September 10, 2008, 09:33:43 AM »
All of the manned launches are.  I don't get NASA-TV, so I don't know how many unmanned launches are televised.  And yes, certain key events from research projects are televised (first pictures from Mars, Titan, etc) from time to time.  It just seems a bit strange that a "fake" space program would have such a large PR presence.

Well, lack of results and public interest would probably yield less for the annual budget. That's probably one of the few plausible reasons I see for it being public.

That doesn't stop military black budgets from being approved.
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divito the truthist

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #134 on: September 10, 2008, 09:51:07 AM »
That doesn't stop military black budgets from being approved.

But those generally benefit the government in some way. In our case, the government is the one being swindled.
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markjo

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #135 on: September 10, 2008, 09:58:07 AM »
That doesn't stop military black budgets from being approved.

But those generally benefit the government in some way. In our case, the government is the one being swindled.

And the government wouldn't notice that it's been swindled for the last 50 years or so?  Can you say GAO?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Office

People in the government may be incredibly stupid, but I really doubt that they are THAT stupid.
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divito the truthist

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #136 on: September 10, 2008, 10:22:26 AM »
Over those 50 years, how many times do you think people are replaced? I imagine with their pensions and such, people don't stay very long in government positions. Having a new person every once in awhile makes it slightly easier for them to keep up the cover. But overall, I agree that it's unlikely.
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markjo

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #137 on: September 10, 2008, 10:43:24 AM »
Over those 50 years, how many times do you think people are replaced? I imagine with their pensions and such, people don't stay very long in government positions. Having a new person every once in awhile makes it slightly easier for them to keep up the cover. But overall, I agree that it's unlikely.

Have you ever worked for the government?  Once you get into a civil service job, unless you do something really bad or really stupid, it's usually pretty hard to get fired (usually you'll get canned because of budget cuts before you get canned for incompetence).  Why do you think that people stay in those jobs for 20 - 30 years or more?  I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than a few Apollo era workers still at NASA.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #138 on: September 10, 2008, 11:11:54 AM »
I know it's this way in Canada, but people in governmental office jobs are retiring before any other sector. I don't see any glaring reasons why American would be at a different level.
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PeopleOnBehalfOfLogic

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #139 on: September 10, 2008, 01:43:27 PM »
10 billion pounds includes their salary. For doing nothing. I would suggest what ever their salary is it would be all profit.

So?
so, if they are spending more than 1 0 Bil they effectively have no salary. Making the conspiracy pointless.
Just noticed my name is actually pretty insulting. Apologies.

Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #140 on: September 10, 2008, 02:44:27 PM »
10 billion pounds includes their salary. For doing nothing. I would suggest what ever their salary is it would be all profit.

So?
so, if they are spending more than 1 0 Bil they effectively have no salary. Making the conspiracy pointless.
You mean if the are spending more than they are given by the government and people aren't being paid? That wouldn't make any sense. Of course they are being paid.
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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #141 on: September 10, 2008, 03:09:35 PM »
You mean if the are spending more than they are given by the government and people aren't being paid? That wouldn't make any sense. Of course they are being paid.

That salary has to be significantly more than they would be receiving to do the same job elsewhere.  Otherwise, why maintain the conspiracy?

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #142 on: September 10, 2008, 05:07:35 PM »
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That salary has to be significantly more than they would be receiving to do the same job elsewhere.  Otherwise, why maintain the conspiracy?

Not everyone working for NASA needs to know the true shape of the earth, or be "in" on the fact that NASA is a fraudulent organization. The vast majority are just doing their job.

Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #143 on: September 10, 2008, 07:20:33 PM »
Not everyone working for NASA needs to know the true shape of the earth, or be "in" on the fact that NASA is a fraudulent organization. The vast majority are just doing their job.

There would still be a significant number of people within the organization that would need to know about the "true shape" of the Earth...

Support staff for manned missions that have to create the illusion of flight.
Support staff for hundreds of "stratellites."
Support staff for observatories around the world.
Support staff for particle accelerators and other "fake" science facilities.
Administrators of national space programs in foreign countries.
Scientific staff to create enough phony data to keep scientists worldwide busy.
Astronauts.
Movie crews to film the faked scenes and create special effects.
Management that gives direction to the people that create all of the fraudulent information.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #144 on: September 11, 2008, 01:23:38 AM »
That salary has to be significantly more than they would be receiving to do the same job elsewhere.
Why?
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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #145 on: September 11, 2008, 01:39:53 AM »
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Support staff for manned missions that have to create the illusion of flight.

These people would only need to be given Top Secret security clearance and let in on the fact that the certain NASA project they're working on is a fraud. If they talk then they know that the government will come down on them hard and send them to Guantanamo military prison for undisclosed state crimes.

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Support staff for hundreds of "stratellites."

These people can just be led to believe that they're servicing regular military reconnaissance drones.

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Support staff for observatories around the world.

Nope.

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Support staff for particle accelerators and other "fake" science facilities.

Nope.

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Administrators of national space programs in foreign countries.

The USA pretty much puts whoever they want into positions of power in foreign nations anyway.

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Scientific staff to create enough phony data to keep scientists worldwide busy.

NASA hired some programmers to create "simulation data generators" for "testing purposes." Then NASA simply uses their tools with a few modifications to feed the data out into the real world as legit.

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Astronauts.

All astronauts need to know is that they're doing a service to their country by perpetuating NASA's fraud. And if they talk, they know what can come down on them (in addition to knowing that no one would believe them and any News agency who published something about it would be purged by threatening government lawyers almost immediately).

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Movie crews to film the faked scenes and create special effects.

The Movie crews would be given security clearance and led to believe that they're filming simulation data.

NASA already has huge dark movie sets for filming the Moon Mission simulations:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/GPN-2002-000032.jpg



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Management that gives direction to the people that create all of the fraudulent information.

The management for most manufacturing divisions within NASA would only need to know that they need to build a certain part with a certain blueprint they were given. They have no knowledge of the full picture.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 01:53:59 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #146 on: September 11, 2008, 01:44:00 AM »
As we can see, almost no one at NASA would need to know that NASA was a hoax. The ones who do need to know it would  already know the consequences of spilling the beans. And beyond that, of the people who do know about NASA's fraud, nearly none would need to know the true form of the earth.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 01:53:05 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #147 on: September 11, 2008, 07:40:29 AM »
These people would only need to be given Top Secret security clearance and let in on the fact that the certain NASA project they're working on is a fraud. If they talk then they know that the government will come down on them hard and send them to Guantanamo military prison for undisclosed state crimes.

But there are still hundreds of people that would be required to be given this clearance.


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These people can just be led to believe that they're servicing regular military reconnaissance drones.

There is a difference between an unmanned drone which is fairly normal military technology and the stratellites that would be required to maintain the illusion of a worldwide satellite network.  There is also the support staff for the commercial satellites that are in existence.


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Nope.

So the astronomers that are making observations don't need to be involved?  They aren't comparing information and discovering the gears?  They aren't bouncing lasers off reflectors on the moon?  They aren't making observations of nova, comets and other cosmological phenomenon.


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Nope.

But when we were talking about particle accelerators, it has been said...


What about particle colliders? These things are built flat right? With the LHC does that mean we can't see the end because the light has curved up? By end I mean before it curves around. Apparently it is supposed to appear straight

These don't exist. They are part of the conspiracy. Imagine how much money people could make from funding intended to build a particle accelerator!

That would mean that there are a lot of people that would be working at a non-functioning facility that would have to be "in on the secret."


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The USA pretty much puts whoever they want into positions of power in foreign nations anyway.

Because the US has so much influence in the internal politics of countries like Iran, China or France?


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NASA hired some programmers to create "simulation data generators" for "testing purposes." Then NASA simply uses their tools with a few modifications to feed the data out into the real world as legit.

There still have to be the people that decide what theories that this "simulation" data is going to be feeding the world.  It all has to have a consistent internal structure that maintains the illusion that you want to maintain.  You have to have programmers that can update the "simulations" to maintain currency of the data, error checkers, people that distribute this information to the scientists, people to repress real world observations that contradict your world view.


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Astronauts.

All astronauts need to know is that they're doing a service to their country by perpetuating NASA's fraud. And if they talk, they know what can come down on them (in addition to knowing that no one would believe them and any News agency who published something about it would be purged by threatening government lawyers almost immediately).

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The Movie crews would be given security clearance and led to believe that they're filming simulation data.

and not notice when their precise production is shown on TV and then say something?  China couldn't even have a little girl lip sync during the opening ceremonies without people noticing and commenting.


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The management for most manufacturing divisions within NASA would only need to know that they need to build a certain part with a certain blueprint they were given. They have no knowledge of the full picture.

I am not talking just about manufacturing.  There is are the pure sciences divisions, publicity, the fake pictures and movie production divisions, fake archives divisions, real archives division, etc.

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Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #148 on: September 11, 2008, 07:46:09 AM »
What about particle colliders? These things are built flat right? With the LHC does that mean we can't see the end because the light has curved up? By end I mean before it curves around. Apparently it is supposed to appear straight

These don't exist. They are part of the conspiracy. Imagine how much money people could make from funding intended to build a particle accelerator!

That would mean that there are a lot of people that would be working at a non-functioning facility that would have to be "in on the secret."

Why? If there's never been a functioning one, how would they know the difference?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: No motive, no case
« Reply #149 on: September 11, 2008, 07:56:10 AM »
Why? If there's never been a functioning one, how would they know the difference?

We aren't talking tourists coming to visit a facility.  We are talking about the people that designed and run the facility.  They are sure to know the signs that it is running, and running correctly.