Predictions

Thanks I sent him a Message I will let you know whatr he says.

I look forward to it.

Quote from: Ski on June 26, 2008, 11:11:33 PM

At the least, the fact you refuse to accept the evidence shows that the selenehelion is incompatible with RE theory.

Although to be clear, there's nothing incompatible in RE theory about a selenelion. And there's nothing in your PDF link to suggest otherwise. All photos posted here fit with the accepted requirement that the eclipse occur just as the sun is rising or setting.

In fact, it's so compatible with RE theory that NASA, the conspirators themselves, are prepared to put out leaflets describing it.

Here's the key from Wikipedia:

Quote

Although the Moon is in the Earth's geometrical shadow, the Sun and the eclipsed Moon can appear in the sky at the same time because the refraction of light through the Earth's atmosphere causes objects near the horizon to appear higher in the sky than their true geometric position.

Remember refraction isn't denied by RE'ers, it's effect just isn't as great as FE'ers would like it to be.

I agree.  I haven't seen any pictures here which show conclusively that both the Sun and Moon are in the sky in the same time.  Just because the sky is slightly blue doesn't mean the Sun is visible above the horizon.

In addition, refraction is a well-studied effect that is known to raise the position of the Sun and other objects above the horizon.  It's possible that refraction would allow the Sun and Moon to be visible above the horizon for several minutes.  Here's a diagram illustrating it.

I'm not convinced about this refraction talk, I'm not sure refraction is capable of moving the sun that distance (>1°). However, it's unnecessary. Here is a diagram (exaggerated) to show how the selenelion works:



Obviously it's not to scale, but that's the basic idea. As you can see, it can only happen at sunrise/sunset, and lo and behold -- all of Tom's photos show the eclipse happening in twilight.

Also, the vast majority of lunar eclipses happen at night. Why should this be the case in FET? It makes total sense in RET. And why do none happen at midday?

Come to think of it, why in FET do we never get a full moon at midday?

Why is the man's head in orbit?

Here' I'll fix it for you:

Thank you Tom.

Why is the man's head in orbit?

Here' I'll fix it for you:

Wow Tom, you've corrected one part of an image but left other parts the same. That'll really prove your point. If you're going ot do that, you'll have to draw the entire solar system to scale.

Because this is impossible, I've done some calculations that should settle the matter:

By my calculations, the observer would only have to be a 243m above the ground level at the horizon to be able to see both the sun and the moon. It's hardly incredible for the ground to rise 250m in 3 miles (3 miles ~ distance to horizon). That's assuming no refraction, and refraction would help slightly.

These calculations are easy to do yourself, so I haven't written them up here.

I recieved a reply from Fred Espenak from NASA who oversees the newsletter that you referenced and this is what he wrote to me, if you would like I can forward it to you.

"Atmospheric refraction makes it possible for both the Sun and Moon to be just above the horizon during part of a lunar eclipse.

FE"

So magic.  Thanks for getting back to us though.

"Atmospheric refraction makes it possible for both the Sun and Moon to be just above the horizon during part of a lunar eclipse.

I don't see any reason to consider that atmospheric refraction is involved. The moon is distinct and high in the sky in most of those images.

Quote

"Atmospheric refraction makes it possible for both the Sun and Moon to be just above the horizon during part of a lunar eclipse.

I don't see any reason to consider that atmospheric refraction is involved. The moon is high in the sky in most of those images.

And where is the sun again???

MAGIC!!





"Atmospheric refraction makes it possible for both the Sun and Moon to be just above the horizon during part of a lunar eclipse."

I recieved a reply from Fred Espenak from NASA who oversees the newsletter that you referenced and this is what he wrote to me, if you would like I can forward it to you.

"Atmospheric refraction makes it possible for both the Sun and Moon to be just above the horizon during part of a lunar eclipse."

My mistake. I thought atmospheric refraction wasn't needed for a selenelion to be possible, seems I was wrong.

I don't see any reason to consider that atmospheric refraction is involved.

What a gem! "I don't see any reason to consider your explanation when deciding that this is imposible."

MAGIC!!

(Image)

If you want that image to to accurate, you'll need to first move the Sun about 5,000 times further from the Earth than it currently is, and then move the Moon about 25 times further away. Then the small amount of atmospheric refraction you would expect should be sufficient to let a viewer see both the Sun and the Moon.