Predictions

At the least, the fact you refuse to accept the evidence shows that the selenehelion is incompatible with RE theory. All the more reason you should look into it. Not that you won't try to explain it away once you realize it is true. Lunar eclipses sometimes occur while the sun is still in the sky.

At the least, the fact you refuse to accept the evidence shows that the selenehelion is incompatible with RE theory. All the more reason you should look into it. Not that you won't try to explain it away once you realize it is true. Lunar eclipses sometimes occur while the sun is still in the sky.

Lets see the only reference I have ever seen is in FES literature I have never seen a published report anywhere else the closest I can find is an eclipse that occured about an hour after sunset. any other claims are made second or third hand.

Except the one about five years ago in France. You're ignoring that one, right?

No problem here are the directions on how to do it http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/pdf-files/eclipse.pdf

That doesn't appear to be an article telling me how to do anything of the sort. Neither is it an example showing how one can triangulate the position of the earth by looking at a Lunar Eclipse. It seems to be nothing more than an introductory primer to orbital mechanics.

Try again.

and until I see a better example than I heard from a guy who heard from a guy I do not buy these other eclipses

Daytime Lunar Eclipses are pretty well known about. Look them up.

There are images of them on the internet too:

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No problem here are the directions on how to do it http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/pdf-files/eclipse.pdf

That doesn't appear to be an article telling me how to do anything of the sort. Neither is it an example showing how one can triangulate the position of the earth by looking at a Lunar Eclipse. It seems to be nothing more than an introductory primer to orbital mechanics.

Try again.

Try reading the whole thing, the first part is about orbital mechanics the second part is the application of that to predicting an eclipse.

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and until I see a better example than I heard from a guy who heard from a guy I do not buy these other eclipses

Daytime Lunar Eclipses are pretty well known about. Look them up.

There are images of them on the internet too:

The second one fails miserably.... Time lapse Photography, that is really the best you can do?
and where is the sun in the first photograph?

Lol. It's a well documented phenomena. It just isn't something well-advertised. Probably because no one can really explain it assuming the earth's shadow is supposed to cause the eclipse.
I've even found references in a NASA newsletter.

At the least, the fact you refuse to accept the evidence shows that the selenehelion is incompatible with RE theory. All the more reason you should look into it. Not that you won't try to explain it away once you realize it is true. Lunar eclipses sometimes occur while the sun is still in the sky.

What is the problem with penumbral eclipses? They are only observed just before sunset or after sunrise while the Moon is just inside the Earth's penumbra.

Nothing wrong with that and a RE

How about a 98% eclipse while the sun is still up? Nice try though...

How about a 98% eclipse while the sun is still up? Nice try though...

Where and when?

France. According to the NASA newsletter I am again reviewing it says late 19th or early 20th century. Also another in France 16 May 2003. Several well documented cases exist, including two by Payen and one by Hevelius.

Total elipse at sunrise
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.spaceweather.com/eclipses/15may03/Welton1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.spaceweather.com/eclipses/gallery_15may03.html&h=450&w=600&sz=7&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=pIomOLPgYwZTVM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfrance%2B16%2Bmay%2B2003%2Beclipse%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

Soon after this picture was taken "the eclipsed moon was lost in the blue of the morning sky, and nearly invisible, even in my telescope!" says Poupard. " The photo was taken with a Coolpix 885 - 1 sec. FD 2.8 - behind a Megrez 80/480, using a 26mm plossl."

Why can't it happen?

Feel free to replicate this with a tennis ball, flashlight and beachball.

http://www.spaceweather.com/eclipses/15may03b/vsoske1.jpg

http://www.spaceweather.com/eclipses/15may03a/Rollwagen1.gif

http://www.spaceweather.com/eclipses/15may03b/TUMINO1.jpg

These images do seem rather devastating to the Round Earth Theory.

Why can't it happen?

Because the earth is supposed to be the shadow on the moon during a Lunar Eclipse. That's impossible if both the sun and moon are in the sky during a Lunar Eclipse.

http://www.spaceweather.com/eclipses/15may03b/vsoske1.jpg

http://www.spaceweather.com/eclipses/15may03a/Rollwagen1.gif

http://www.spaceweather.com/eclipses/15may03b/TUMINO1.jpg

These images do seem rather devastating to the Round Earth Theory.

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Why can't it happen?

Because the earth is supposed to be the shadow on the moon during a Lunar Eclipse. That's impossible if both the sun and moon are in the sky during a Lunar Eclipse.

Once Again where is the sun?
We have established that an eclipse can occur right around sunrise and sunset so where is good documented evidence that they occur while the sun is up in the sky?

We have established that an eclipse can occur right around sunrise and sunset

No they can't. Under RE a Lunar Eclipse can never occur during daylight hours.

In RE the sun must be behind the earth during a Lunar Eclipse.

But they are all penumbral eclipses.

The sensitivity used for capturing the images is a likely explanation for the contrast. Why the dark section of the moon doesn't appear brighter as in other images.

According to Round Earth theory, lunar eclipses can happen when the moon is setting and the sun is rising, or vice versa. In summer, when more than half of the ecliptic is visible, you can even get a total lunar eclipse at such times, with both of them in the sky. What you think you are proving, I do not know.

France. According to the NASA newsletter I am again reviewing it says late 19th or early 20th century. Also another in France 16 May 2003. Several well documented cases exist, including two by Payen and one by Hevelius.

Post the newsletter.  I'd like to read it.

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SENL/SENL200102A.pdf

I assumed that your evidence of seleneliopn would be an official report put out by nasa not a blog by a student where and where the only reference is of the story where it supposedly happened and it even says that there is no other evidence to support it.

Uh, another victory for FE!

That really was a cunning gambit! Good show!

A small question about the lunar eclipse images apparently disproving RE theory posted here. What evidence is there that they were taken when the sun was up? The sky being blue doesn't imply that the sun is visible. I assume people here have heard of twilight.

I assumed that your evidence of seleneliopn would be an official report put out by nasa not a blog by a student where and where the only reference is of the story where it supposedly happened and it even says that there is no other evidence to support it.

What part of "NASA newsletter" did you not comprehend? Payen's account is available online for purchase if you care to search for it.

I don't sell anything on this site. I was telling you where to find the records if you are interested in reading the accounts for yourself. If I recommend a movie or book to you that I thought you might find interesting, would you berate me as well?    Indeed, the selenehelion is impossible for RE to squeeze into their model.

I don't sell anything on this site. I was telling you where to find the records if you are interested in reading the accounts for yourself. If I recommend a movie or book to you that I thought you might find interesting, would you berate me as well?    Indeed, the selenehelion is impossible for RE to squeeze into their model.

If FE can (mis)use refraction to explain why the sun appears set every evening (even though refraction would bend light the wrong way), then why can't RE use refraction to explain why the sun and a partial lunar eclipse can both be just above the horizon at the same time?

I'm pretty sure anytime FE mentions refraction the masses pour in with claims of magic. I'm not sure why you would expect a different return on your investment.

Quote from: cbarnett97 on June 27, 2008, 02:21:29 AM

I assumed that your evidence of seleneliopn would be an official report put out by nasa not a blog by a student where and where the only reference is of the story where it supposedly happened and it even says that there is no other evidence to support it.

What part of "NASA newsletter" did you not comprehend? Payen's account is available online for purchase if you care to search for it.

Just because it is for purchase does not make it valid, hell if you want for a nominal fee I will sell you a rock that keeps away bears, hasn't failed me yet
And a blog written by a student is nowhere near the same as a newsletter written by a NASA scientist. Also I would figure that your "evidence" that NASA claims it can happen would be more than a vague reference to the story.

I don't sell anything on this site. I was telling you where to find the records if you are interested in reading the accounts for yourself. If I recommend a movie or book to you that I thought you might find interesting, would you berate me as well?    Indeed, the selenehelion is impossible for RE to squeeze into their model.

A lunar eclipse while the sun is well up in the sky is impossible in RE. An eclipse that occures right around sunrise/sunset is possible. And if we use refraction to explain something we actually hold to the proper rules we do not invoke unheard of conclusions to support our arguments. it has been established many times that light can bend just a little bit.

Please contact Fred Espenak for questions regarding the newsletter he prints. I'm sure he would be interested in his incompetence.

[email protected]
Planetary Systems Branch - Code 693
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland 20771 USA


Or you may read this provided online article written about Payen:
http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?UIN=214123926&ETOC=RN&from=searchengine

Other works by Antoine-Francois Payen you may find at a university library:
Payen, A. F., *Aenigma astronomicon adulterium solis & lunae visibile in hemispherio
parisiensi a 1666 (Paris, 1666); or Extrait d’une lettre [...] contenant l’observation de l’eclipse de
soleil arrivée le 2 juillet 1666 (Paris, 1666); or Selenelion, ou apparition luni-solaire en l’isle de
Gorgone (Paris, 1666).

All these works were held by contemporary Henry Oldenburg. Oldenburg basically created the process of peer review.