more likely

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lindelof

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more likely
« on: June 13, 2008, 11:19:54 AM »
First of all I would like to begin w/ two points on which I hope we can agree.  If you have problems w/ these points, please discuss that.  If you discuss the things a bit further in I will assume that you agree w/ these points.


(A) There are observations/evidence that, at least when taken at face value, support a Round Earth (i.e. photos from                           space).  There are observations/evidence that, at least when taken at face value, support a Flat Earth, (i.e. "Earth not a Globe")



(B) If you believe in the standard FE model, than you cannot say w/ any degree of certainty that the motivation for the Conspiracy is money.  Why?  Because to do so you have to assume that what NASA is being truthful about their finances.  As NASA is lying about everything, there is no reason to suppose that they would be truthful in this one area.  Now, financial motives are likely, but to say that NASA is doing it for the money is just speculation.

Now, I shall outline two Scenarios

(Scenario 1)  All of the evidence that seems to point to a Round Earth is the result of fraud, misinterpertation or error.  The evidence that points towards a Flat Earth is largely correct.

(Scenario 2) All of the evidence that points towards a Flat Earth is the result of fraud, misinterpertation or error.  The evidence that points towards a Round Earth is largely correct.



So, any FE's wanna give me any reasons to prefer (Scenario 1) to (Scenario 2)?  You believe (Scenario 1) so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you have some reasons to do so, and go out on another limb and assume that you might like that share those reasons.  I realize that's alot of limbs, but what the hell.

Remember, that you can't reasonably ascribe financial motives to NASA.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 01:16:23 PM by lindelof »

Re: more likely
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 11:32:32 AM »
There's no other reason to do it apart from money. That's the sole purpose of the conspiracy. Without financial gain there is no conspiracy hence this debate is moot. It's okay saying we cannot be sure but to be honest it matters not. IF the Earth is flat then there MUST be a conspiracy. IF there is a conspiracy then it MUST be because of the financial rewards. That is the scenario and there cannot be any other. It is fundamental to FE theory and it is also not worth discussing.

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lindelof

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Re: more likely
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 11:41:26 AM »
There's no other reason to do it apart from money. That's the sole purpose of the conspiracy. Without financial gain there is no conspiracy hence this debate is moot. It's okay saying we cannot be sure but to be honest it matters not. IF the Earth is flat then there MUST be a conspiracy. IF there is a conspiracy then it MUST be because of the financial rewards. That is the scenario and there cannot be any other. It is fundamental to FE theory and it is also not worth discussing.

Nah.  I can think of a couple other possible motivations right off the top of my head.  Like, say, it's a huge joke.  Or it's the only way to protect humanity from the aliens that live underneath the earth.  Or they are part of a bizarre Satanic cult (I recall Dogplatter saying this awhile back) and part of the cult it pretending that the Earth is Round.  Or they're doing it for power, not money.  Or they want to be the only people who can travel to the other side of the Earth because the other side is really, really, really awesome.  If you take the FE stance it is reasonable to suppose that they are doing it for the money, but you can't say that with any certainty.

Anyway, the point isn't to argue about possible motivations, it's to see if the FE's have any reason to prefer (Scenario 1) to (Scenario 2) from a strictly agnostic stance, i.e., not assuming FE or RE.

If you start from FE, (Scenario 1) has to be true and if you start from RE (Scenario 2) has to be true, but starting from an agnostic position can any FE's give any reason to prefer (Scenario 1) to (Scenario 2).

Re: more likely
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 11:43:55 AM »
I know that's not the point and I don't mean to go off-topic but the entire premise is that money is not the motive when really there can be no other motive so personally I don't see this going anywhere. That's just my point of view though so maybe some proper FEers (well....proper people pretending to be FEers...or whatever we have here) can shed some different light on it.

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lindelof

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Re: more likely
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 01:03:22 PM »
I get ya'.  However, I think that FET basically says that the world as it is is vastly different that what the world looks like.  I mean, if "they" could cover up the shape of the Earth couldn't "they" pretty much cover up anything else?  So we really have no idea what the fuck is going on (if we take the FE stance).

But the point of this thread is not speculation about conspiracy motivation.  I doubt that any FE's will answer my question.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 01:11:27 PM by lindelof »

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: more likely
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 01:14:23 PM »
Yeah like lindelof says, there's a thousand and one motives. And better motives too.

Money is widely recognised in business as a short term motivator. Imagine you had to clean the poop out of rat cages every day. Your boss says, "Hey I'll give you a $100,000 rise, starting tomorrow!". You say to yourself "Great I'll stick this for a few months then retire! Whoo!"

The whole conspiracy thing is bunk, NASA doesn't get that much money (in terms of America's govermental budget) and what money there is is split up between engineers scientists and the aquisition of rare metals and building them into rockets.

Why bother? If you're going to have a conspiracy as fat as this one, why not just say: "Yeah there's aliens on the other side of the world. They want our money. I am their only ambassador. Really, don't ask. Now give me your money."

Pah.

In the case of the conspiracy, they had a ready-made false view to exploit.  People already believed it, making it easier to expand on the illusion while still coming off as plausible.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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lindelof

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Re: more likely
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 02:32:17 PM »
In the case of the conspiracy, they had a ready-made false view to exploit.  People already believed it, making it easier to expand on the illusion while still coming off as plausible.

This is a reasonable thing to say, but I think that there are some problems with it.  I mean, if they could fake the entire space program, what couldn't they fake?  Couldn't they have faked most of history?  They could have faked the idea that people in the 19th century believed that the Earth was round.  All of Rowbotham's stuff could have been faked, inserted into the History books as a sort of private joke amoung the conspirators.

When I say "they" I mean whomever is running the conspiracy in the FE model