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Earth satellites are impossible

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MessiahOfFire

Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2008, 10:46:17 PM »
Oh and if DE/UE causes the circular path of the sun and moon, how is it not possible that it would do the same for man made satellites? And please, don't tell me that we don't have enough power to get one high enough. You only need to get to about 150-160km to orbit. Rockets can easily do that. pfft!
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Colossal Death Robot

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2008, 11:02:08 PM »
The problem is, we arent talking about orbiting on a RE. They have said that you have to get really high up, based on nothing but speculation. If we can build a rocket big enough to get this high, we somehow magically contact the UE and the get a fuel free upwards acceleration of 9.8ms^2 the same as the earth. So we cant just kind of hang there, we dont even need to orbit. But we can orbit around the same point the sun/moon do (im still not sure what they are orbiting around, and how this gets weaker/stronger to vary the circumference of the orbit to give us the seasons).
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Quote from: narcberry on May 27, 2008, 05:51:47 PM
But a sure-fire method would be to land on the top side of the sun.
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messierhunter

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2008, 04:17:43 AM »
Quote from: narcberry on May 28, 2008, 10:45:40 PM
The paragraph. Simple. Tested. Trusted.

Please use it someday in the near future.

If that's the only criticism you can make of my argument then I'm pretty satisfied.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #63 on: May 29, 2008, 08:13:17 AM »
Quote from: MessiahOfFire on May 28, 2008, 10:42:13 PM
Two different answers!
In case you have not noticed, 'Doctor Leina' is a troll.

Quote
2 people don't even have the same answer when asked 1 question. This would not happen in RE.
So, the gravity of the Earth is caused by the Earth spinning really, really fast?  Wow, that is good to know.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #64 on: May 29, 2008, 08:59:09 AM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 29, 2008, 08:13:17 AM
Quote from: MessiahOfFire on May 28, 2008, 10:42:13 PM
Two different answers!
In case you have not noticed, 'Doctor Leina' is a troll.

Quote
2 people don't even have the same answer when asked 1 question. This would not happen in RE.
So, the gravity of the Earth is caused by the Earth spinning really, really fast?  Wow, that is good to know.

No,  Gravity is caused by the mass of the earth.  That is why gravity is less on the moon (IE smaller than earth) and its greater on Jupiter (IE bigger than earth)
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #65 on: May 29, 2008, 11:13:54 AM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 29, 2008, 08:59:09 AM
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 29, 2008, 08:13:17 AM
Quote from: MessiahOfFire on May 28, 2008, 10:42:13 PM
2 people don't even have the same answer when asked 1 question. This would not happen in RE.
So, the gravity of the Earth is caused by the Earth spinning really, really fast?  Wow, that is good to know.

No,  Gravity is caused by the mass of the earth.  That is why gravity is less on the moon (IE smaller than earth) and its greater on Jupiter (IE bigger than earth)
What!?!  How can that be?  I thought that if I asked 2 RE'ers 1 question, I would only get one answer?   :-\
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 05:04:31 PM by TheEngineer »
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MessiahOfFire

Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2008, 04:38:05 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 29, 2008, 11:13:54 AM
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 29, 2008, 08:59:09 AM
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 29, 2008, 08:13:17 AM
Quote from: MessiahOfFire on May 28, 2008, 10:42:13 PM
2 people don't even have the same answer when asked 1 question. This would not happen in RE.
So, the gravity of the Earth is caused by the Earth spinning really, really fast?  Wow, that is good to know.

No,  Gravity is caused by the mass of the earth.  That is why gravity is less on the moon (IE smaller than earth) and its greater on Jupiter (IE bigger than earth)
What!?!  How can that be?  I thought that if I asked 2 RE'er 1 question, I would only get one answer?   :-\

Funny, because only 1 person answered your question.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2008, 05:03:54 PM »
Answers from two different RE'ers:
1:
Quote from: youarewrong on April 19, 2008, 05:39:35 PM
the gravity we experience of Earth is a result of the Earth spinning at an extremely high speed.
2:
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 29, 2008, 08:59:09 AM
Gravity is caused by the mass of the earth.

I suspect, I can even find a third explanation.
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MessiahOfFire

Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2008, 07:13:02 PM »
Earth is round.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2008, 07:30:13 PM »
Typical RE'er; When you beat them, they act like 5 year olds.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2008, 07:36:27 PM »
Sorry it was late and went to bed.  My answer is correct.  I'm not sure where the spinning one is from.  Think of it like a big bouncy ball.  If the ball was wet and you spun it really really fast what happens.  All the water is spun off...outward.  So that can't be the explanation of gravity.   
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2008, 07:38:04 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 29, 2008, 07:36:27 PM
Sorry it was late and went to bed.  My answer is correct.   
Actually, it is not.  Gravity does not exist, except in your head.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2008, 08:37:24 PM »
Actually....the upward motion of the flat earth causing 1g downward force doesn't exist.  Only in your head.
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narcberry

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2008, 08:39:57 PM »
It doesn't exist in his head either.
You are right to point out it would be a 1g upward force.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2008, 09:02:38 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 29, 2008, 08:37:24 PM
Actually....the upward motion of the flat earth causing 1g downward force doesn't exist.  Only in your head.
Gravity is exactly the same thing in both the RE and FE: A fictitious force.
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narcberry

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2008, 09:04:25 PM »
He didn't say gravity. He said upward motion of the flat earth. And he's right to satiristically point out it is an upward force.
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MessiahOfFire

Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2008, 09:46:04 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 29, 2008, 05:03:54 PM
Answers from two different RE'ers:
1:
Quote from: youarewrong on April 19, 2008, 05:39:35 PM
the gravity we experience of Earth is a result of the Earth spinning at an extremely high speed.
2:
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 29, 2008, 08:59:09 AM
Gravity is caused by the mass of the earth.

I suspect, I can even find a third explanation.

No1. WRONG. Who ever said that doesn't know what they are talking about.
No2. CORRECT!

So you see, you are wrong, sir!

I would like to know the name of the FLAT EARTH scientist(s) and the reports/studies done by them showing the earth being flat. Are there any flat earth scientists?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 09:48:48 PM by MessiahOfFire »
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2008, 09:58:55 PM »
Quote from: MessiahOfFire on May 29, 2008, 09:46:04 PM
No1. WRONG. Who ever said that doesn't know what they are talking about.
No2. CORRECT!
So?  You said no two RE'ers have different answers to the same question.  I have provided two answers to the same question.  I can even provide more. 

No.2 is not correct.

Quote
So you see, you are wrong, sir!
Yes, you are wrong, sir, on all three accounts. 
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2008, 10:08:39 PM »
Quote from: Ski on May 28, 2008, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:34:42 PM
ok now im really confused....not that it takes much.

How much fuel would you have to put in a rocket to get it to continuously accelerate faster than 9.8m/s^2 for 3000 miles?

You know Ski....I got to thinking about this part of the debate today.  And I think my initial response was still correct but may be alot less fuel than I originally thought.  Look at it this way, the twin Pratt&Whitney powerplants that propel an F-15 generate approx 50,000 lbs of thrust combined.  The F-15 is one of the few aircraft that can accelerate in a vertical climb.  And the only thing restricting that climb is the amount of air flowing into the engines the higher  it gets.  The aircraft was already traveling at 9.8m/s^2 when it was at rest on the ground statically. After take off its still traveling at 9.8m/s^2 vertically, if it wasn't the earth would come up to meet it at the exact point it lifted off the surface of the earth.  So when the jet climbs into the vertical and begins to accelerate, is already continuously accelerating faster than 9.8m/s^2 and the only limiting factor to that continuous acceleration is running out of oxygen at higher altitudes.  The F-15's fuel capacity (depending on version and whether or not its carrying external tanks) is only about 13,000 lbs of fuel or roughly 1900 gallons.  Which isnt that much.  So depending on the rockets thrust to weight ratio it would not take a rocket the size of New Hampshire to get 3000 miles into space.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #79 on: May 29, 2008, 10:11:11 PM »
Except the aircraft is not producing lift in the required direction when it is traveling upwards.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2008, 10:14:28 PM »
Which means what exactly?  We arent talking about lift we are talking thrust to weight ratios.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #81 on: May 29, 2008, 10:20:50 PM »
If the wings are not pointed in the right direction, they don't help you out.  Which is what you were alluding to  in your post.
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Ski

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #82 on: May 29, 2008, 10:23:03 PM »
It took the Saturn V eight minutes and two stages to get to 115 miles altitude.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #83 on: May 29, 2008, 10:26:58 PM »
Negative, we were saying that it would take an enormous amount of fuel to continually accelerate a rocket into space.  After further thought I am saying it wouldn't.  Look at it this way.  My legs can propel me faster than 9.8m/s^2 for a brief period of time.  So the fact of the matter is as long as the thrust to weight ratio is good it wouldn't take an enormously large amount of fuel to get a rocket to do the same thing.  Say the rocket was the size of the original Saturn V.  I would have to find some numbers on that thing but I bet the amount of fuel required to accelerate that rocket to 3000 miles off the ground would not be as much as I originally thought.  Because the rocket is already traveling at 9.8m/s^2.  The Saturn V doesnt have wings therefore no lift.  Its all about the thrust produced by the engines.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #84 on: May 29, 2008, 10:27:48 PM »
Quote from: Ski on May 29, 2008, 10:23:03 PM
It took the Saturn V eight minutes and two stages to get to 115 miles altitude.

Yes but it wasnt climbing vertically.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #85 on: May 29, 2008, 10:30:19 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 29, 2008, 10:26:58 PM
Because the rocket is already traveling at 9.8m/s^2.
???
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2008, 10:31:13 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 29, 2008, 10:30:19 PM
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 29, 2008, 10:26:58 PM
Because the rocket is already traveling at 9.8m/s^2.
???

Isn't everything on the surface of the flat earth traveling at 9.8m/s^2?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2008, 10:32:36 PM »
Yes.   ???
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narcberry

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #88 on: May 29, 2008, 10:33:07 PM »
And it's accelerating at 3 megawatts
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #89 on: May 29, 2008, 10:34:50 PM »
Ski asked this question.


Quote from: Ski on May 28, 2008, 08:42:24 PM
How much fuel would you have to put in a rocket to get it to continuously accelerate faster than 9.8m/s^2 for 3000 miles?

The answer actually becomes, depending on how long you want to accelerate.  Because its already going faster than 9.8m/s^2 the instant it leaves the ground. 
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