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Earth satellites are impossible

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Doctor Leina

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2008, 08:22:54 PM »
My pet Fafnir likes to be fed trolls, so which of you RE's will go first hmmm.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2008, 08:23:54 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 28, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
How much fuel must a rocket carry to get that high?

I missed it, how high are we talking?
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Doctor Leina

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2008, 08:25:12 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:23:54 PM
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 28, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
How much fuel must a rocket carry to get that high?

I missed it, how high are we talking?

To get out of Earth's supposed "gravitational pull" I would assume.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2008, 08:26:11 PM »
Are we talking a complete orbital ejection or just enough to get us out to the moon?
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lived_eht_asan

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2008, 08:26:34 PM »
Quote from: Doctor Leina on May 28, 2008, 08:22:54 PM
My pet Fafnir likes to be fed trolls, so which of you RE's will go first hmmm.

Aren't you a troll?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2008, 08:27:01 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:23:54 PM
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 28, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
How much fuel must a rocket carry to get that high?

I missed it, how high are we talking?
Say, 3,000 miles.
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Doctor Leina

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2008, 08:29:03 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:26:11 PM
Are we talking a complete orbital ejection or just enough to get us out to the moon?

I belive it would be the same for RE belivers. As once we escape earth's atmosphere our velocity from escaping should allow us to continue on and with no air resistance and little gravitanial pull it should take roughly the same amount so either works. But this is for RE people who are wrong.
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Doctor Leina

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2008, 08:30:33 PM »
Quote from: lived_eht_asan on May 28, 2008, 08:26:34 PM
Quote from: Doctor Leina on May 28, 2008, 08:22:54 PM
My pet Fafnir likes to be fed trolls, so which of you RE's will go first hmmm.

Aren't you a troll?
But my dragon likes RE trolls.  ;)
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2008, 08:31:22 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 28, 2008, 08:27:01 PM
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:23:54 PM
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 28, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
How much fuel must a rocket carry to get that high?

I missed it, how high are we talking?
Say, 3,000 miles.

well lets see 3000 miles is not enough to get out of the earths gravitational pull.  The moon is roughly 240,000 miles from earth and it hasnt escaped yet.  The thing about gravity its not about distance its about speed.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2008, 08:32:33 PM »
Except this discussion is about the FE.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2008, 08:34:42 PM »
ok now im really confused....not that it takes much.
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Doctor Leina

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2008, 08:36:46 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 28, 2008, 08:27:01 PM
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:23:54 PM
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 28, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
How much fuel must a rocket carry to get that high?

I missed it, how high are we talking?
Say, 3,000 miles.

well lets see 3000 miles is not enough to get out of the earths gravitational pull.  The moon is roughly 240,000 miles from earth and it hasnt escaped yet.  The thing about gravity its not about distance its about speed.
INcorrect, The RE theory, which is clearly wrong, claims that graivty is affected by both distance and speed. If a photon wized past a black hole it's path would turn, yet it could still escape. If it was closer it would be sucked in this limit is called the point of no return.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2008, 08:40:17 PM »
Agreed to a point.  Its speed has to be great enough for its distance away from that blackhole to escape.
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Ski

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2008, 08:42:24 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:34:42 PM
ok now im really confused....not that it takes much.

How much fuel would you have to put in a rocket to get it to continuously accelerate faster than 9.8m/s^2 for 3000 miles?
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2008, 08:44:58 PM »
Straight up or at an angle?
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Doctor Leina

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2008, 08:46:03 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:44:58 PM
Straight up or at an angle?
You choose.
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Ski

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2008, 08:47:06 PM »
Quote from: Doctor Leina on May 28, 2008, 08:46:03 PM
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:44:58 PM
Straight up or at an angle?
You choose.

It would need to be straight up in this case, but the math will be the same either way.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2008, 08:58:32 PM »
Not necessarily,  A rocket going up at an angle would spend more time in the atmosphere.  As such it would encounter more drag than one going straight up.  Whats the zero fuel weight of the rocket?
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Ski

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2008, 09:03:47 PM »
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:58:32 PM
Not necessarily,  A rocket going up at an angle would spend more time in the atmosphere.  As such it would encounter more drag than one going straight up.  Whats the zero fuel weight of the rocket?

That's part of the problem. You have to calculate how much fuel you'd need to get there. To do that you have to know how big the rocket is. If the fuel outweighs the rocket, you'd have to do it again and make a bigger rocket. It would be a very large rocket, I can tell you that much.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2008, 09:08:02 PM »
The point is there is a mathematical equation to compute when given the proper variables.
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Ski

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2008, 09:10:12 PM »
Certainly. And it would lead to a rocket roughly the size of New Hampshire, I'm sure.
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"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2008, 09:12:16 PM »
So were is the debate here?  ???  Im lost again.
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Ski

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2008, 09:14:30 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 28, 2008, 08:27:01 PM
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on May 28, 2008, 08:23:54 PM
Quote from: TheEngineer on May 28, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
How much fuel must a rocket carry to get that high?

I missed it, how high are we talking?
Say, 3,000 miles.

It is infeasible to go to the sun or moon.
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"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2008, 09:17:33 PM »
Ahhh.  Now I see.  I agree in the FET it would be a huge rocket.  But in the RET it is much more feasible.
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lived_eht_asan

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2008, 09:18:31 PM »
Phew....
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MessiahOfFire

Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2008, 09:32:04 PM »
If satellites cannot exist, then how does the sun and moon travel in a circular path above the earth? And, what, in FE theory, explains the energy of the sun and moon to do so?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2008, 09:32:46 PM »
DE
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"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Doctor Leina

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2008, 09:33:11 PM »
Quote from: MessiahOfFire on May 28, 2008, 09:32:04 PM
If satellites cannot exist, then how does the sun and moon travel in a circular path above the earth? And, what, in FE theory, explains the energy of the sun and moon to do so?

UE

and check the FAQ before Fafnir eats you...
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MessiahOfFire

Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2008, 10:42:13 PM »
Hahaha, FANTASTIC!

Two different answers!

This stuff is great! I must give the FES credit for spending such a large amount of time and energy to trying to prove the world is flat, but then 2 people don't even have the same answer when asked 1 question. This would not happen in RE. Hehehe, very nice. I'm sure you can convince many people of your theories.
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narcberry

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Re: Earth satellites are impossible
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2008, 10:45:40 PM »
Quote from: messierhunter on May 27, 2008, 07:18:38 AM
Quote from: divito the truthist on May 26, 2008, 08:47:44 AM
A telescope would do little to discern if it's an actual satellite or a stratellite.
Aside from previous comments pointing out the fact that a telescope should be able to see the fact that the stratellite is supported by a balloon, let's assume for a second that it IS somehow a balloon despite being shaped exactly like the constantly changing space station.  ISS is a very fast moving object in the sky when it's straight over your head.  It moves about 1.5 degrees per second at the peak of its pass.  Assuming it were really 300 kilometers away as described by NASA, then that correlates to about 8 kilometers per second - orbital velocity.  Assuming, however, that it is actually a tiny balloon only 20 kilometers straight up (as that would be the height of a stratellite), then that 1.5 degree per second motion (which you can easily measure for yourself with a telescope) still correlates to a velocity of 1,919 km/hr.  How is an unaerodynamic structure like the ISS able to fly at that high a velocity without being ripped to shreds by extreme aerodynamic forces (20km is still easily low enough in the atmosphere to experience extreme atmospheric heating)?  How is it able to maintain that velocity with no sign of any engine emissions whatsoever?  And best of all, how is it able to show up at exactly the right time and place as predicted by its supposed orbital elements?  Even if someone wanted to fake it by using a stratellite drone shaped like a space station, figured out a way to magically keep it intact, and figured out a way to get it going fast enough with no sign of engine emissions, any given flight path it could take would only produce a path that would match predictions based on the published ISS orbit for one very specific location.  Anyone else nearby looking up would see the "stratellite ISS" appear in totally the wrong place, and others farther away wouldn't see it at all.  The fakers would have to magically know ahead of time who was going to be trying to observe the ISS, as well as where and when exactly they would be observing it.  If two observers planned to look for it during the same predicted pass from locations separated by a few miles there'd be no way to adequately fake it for both observers simultaneously.  Therefore, it is impossible to adequately fake the ISS and shuttle using "stratellites," even for naked eye observers.

The paragraph. Simple. Tested. Trusted.

Please use it someday in the near future.
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