How fast do A340's fly

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Youre avin a larf

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How fast do A340's fly
« on: May 16, 2008, 10:56:16 AM »
In the FE model it is 19,260 miles from Sao Paulo to Johannesburg.
The Airbus A340 SA223 flight takes off at 18:00 local time and lands at 07:40 jo'burg time (8:40 journey time).
How fast does the A340 have to fly to do this?
btw the speed of sound is approximately 770mph.

If 19,620 miles is not the correct distance in the FE model, could someone tell me 1/ what it is and 2/ how it that was calculated.
I know round when I see it.

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fshy94

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2008, 10:59:35 AM »
Cruising speed -- Mach 0.82-0.83. In metric terms, 248.9 m/s or 896 km per hour. All of these are rough calculations and not precise in the least. Now, in that all new conspiracy thread, since no FE'er would do it, I calculated the distances, roughly midway in there. I did all of this a while ago, take a look in the middle of that thread, its long, but its worth it, and humorous with Tom in it...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2008, 11:01:42 AM »
2222.48 m.p.h.? Approx. Mach 2.99. Do I win some kind of prize?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 11:17:05 AM by Kasroa Is Gone »

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2008, 11:11:40 AM »
Cruising speed -- Mach 0.82-0.83. In metric terms, 248.9 m/s or 896 km per hour. All of these are rough calculations and not precise in the least. Now, in that all new conspiracy thread, since no FE'er would do it, I calculated the distances, roughly midway in there. I did all of this a while ago, take a look in the middle of that thread, its long, but its worth it, and humorous with Tom in it...

Could you give me a page number or something to search for; it is 18 pages.

I take it your answer is the Airbus quoted figure rather than how fast it would have to fly to do the journey (which is what I asked for in the OP  ;) )
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fshy94

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2008, 11:13:50 AM »
Oh, woops, I just glanced at the title lol and went straight to wiki...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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fshy94

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2008, 11:17:43 AM »
Here's the distances I calculated. You went conservatively, actually...

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.msg354191#msg354191
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2008, 11:18:08 AM »
1313.18 m.p.h.? Approx. Mach 1.7. Do I win some kind of prize?

Just so wrong, wooden spoon for you.

Neither how fast they fly, nor how fast they would have to.

I think you forgot to factor the 5 hour time zone difference.
I know round when I see it.

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Ski

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008, 11:18:21 AM »
Cruising speed -- Mach 0.82-0.83. In metric terms, 248.9 m/s or 896 km per hour. All of these are rough calculations and not precise in the least. Now, in that all new conspiracy thread, since no FE'er would do it, I calculated the distances, roughly midway in there. I did all of this a while ago, take a look in the middle of that thread, its long, but its worth it, and humorous with Tom in it...

Vc and Vh are completely different things. And both will vary with altitude, loading, etc. It'd be hard to give a Vh speed without knowing the conditions of the flight.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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fshy94

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2008, 11:19:32 AM »
2222.48 m.p.h.? Approx. Mach 2.99. Do I win some kind of prize?

Sounds about right. Sounds like the results I got in my other thread. So, yeah, I may note than the A340 is not designed for supersonic travel, and would break under the strain of such travel.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

?

fshy94

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2008, 11:21:07 AM »
Cruising speed -- Mach 0.82-0.83. In metric terms, 248.9 m/s or 896 km per hour. All of these are rough calculations and not precise in the least. Now, in that all new conspiracy thread, since no FE'er would do it, I calculated the distances, roughly midway in there. I did all of this a while ago, take a look in the middle of that thread, its long, but its worth it, and humorous with Tom in it...

Vc and Vh are completely different things. And both will vary with altitude, loading, etc. It'd be hard to give a Vh speed without knowing the conditions of the flight.

That's the given optimal cruising speed by the manufacturers of the plane. That's not referring to a particular flight, its referring to the cruising speed of an airplane. Its designed for optimal flight time and fuel consumption, and is the cruising speed they should reach during cruising altitude...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

*

Ski

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2008, 11:21:40 AM »
I'd like to know how you calculated the FE distance...
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2008, 11:24:39 AM »
I'd like to know how you calculated the FE distance...

You appear to support FE.
How about you tell me how it should be calculated?

I haven't found any accurate plane view map either on this site or linked from this map, so in the absence of an answer to my questions, I mapped the longitude and latitude into polar coordinates and did a bit of trig.

I know round when I see it.

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Ski

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2008, 11:25:12 AM »
Vc and Vh are completely different things. And both will vary with altitude, loading, etc. It'd be hard to give a Vh speed without knowing the conditions of the flight.

That's the given optimal cruising speed by the manufacturers of the plane. That's not referring to a particular flight, its referring to the cruising speed of an airplane. Its designed for optimal flight time and fuel consumption, and is the cruising speed they should reach during cruising altitude...

I suggest you look at the range/flight time of a heavily laden flight at 896kmph and FL120 and a lighter flight at FL430 and 896kmph and tell me how this reconciles to your idea of "optimal flight time and fuel consumption"
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Ski

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2008, 11:27:04 AM »
I haven't found any accurate plane view map either on this site or linked from this map, so in the absence of an answer to my questions, I mapped the longitude and latitude into polar coordinates and did a bit of trig.

Map it.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2008, 11:27:17 AM »
Vc and Vh are completely different things. And both will vary with altitude, loading, etc. It'd be hard to give a Vh speed without knowing the conditions of the flight.

You don't think maybe quibbling over Vc and Vh is a bit trivial when the plane has to fly well over three times faster than either figure to achieve the journey time on a FE.
I know round when I see it.

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fshy94

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2008, 11:28:59 AM »
I'd like to know how you calculated the FE distance...

Look at the post I mentioned, and make your own which you think better models the FE.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2008, 11:33:24 AM »
I haven't found any accurate plane view map either on this site or linked from this map, so in the absence of an answer to my questions, I mapped the longitude and latitude into polar coordinates and did a bit of trig.

Map it.

It is you, I assume, who believes in the FE model.

It really isn't my job to provide you with a picture of your model.

For all I know, you might think below the equator the longitudinal distances over land double, but not over water or something.
I know round when I see it.

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2008, 11:36:47 AM »
Map it.

Conversely, tell me that mapping Lng and lat to polar is not the right way to map and what the correct mapping is.

Or better still, you tell me how far it is and how you calculated it.
I know round when I see it.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2008, 11:43:46 AM »
In the FE model it is 19,260 miles from Sao Paulo to Johannesburg.
The Airbus A340 SA223 flight takes off at 18:00 local time and lands at 07:40 jo'burg time (8:40 journey time).
How fast does the A340 have to fly to do this?
btw the speed of sound is approximately 770mph.

If 19,620 miles is not the correct distance in the FE model, could someone tell me 1/ what it is and 2/ how it that was calculated.

Have you taken this flight yourself?

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2008, 11:51:39 AM »
In the FE model it is 19,260 miles from Sao Paulo to Johannesburg.
The Airbus A340 SA223 flight takes off at 18:00 local time and lands at 07:40 jo'burg time (8:40 journey time).
How fast does the A340 have to fly to do this?
btw the speed of sound is approximately 770mph.

If 19,620 miles is not the correct distance in the FE model, could someone tell me 1/ what it is and 2/ how it that was calculated.

Have you taken this flight yourself?

Would this be a flight you say doesn't exist.

How exactly can I go on a plane you claim does not exist. Asking is sort of accepting it must exist.

Why would it matter?

If I am in on the conspiracy, I could be lying.

I know round when I see it.

Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2008, 11:55:09 AM »
Thats a great point that many people will verify- no matter what is posted on the internet (and remember, companies are interested in appearing to have lower flight times), international flights are very very often delayed.

But lets give that the benefit of the doubt and approximate this.

The flight you posted is 14 hours.  The airbus flies 900 mph.  Give or take a jetstream (its always take, because they do it on purpose), you can up to double that to 1800mph.  So that would put the distance somewhere between 12600 and 25200.  Doesn't seem out of the ordinary for either a flat earth or round earth map.

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2008, 12:14:01 PM »
The flight you posted is 14 hours. 
No it isn't, there is 5 hours time difference.
This is pretty basic stuff.
Quote
The airbus flies 900 mph. 
No, it flies at 900 kilometers per hour
Quote
Give or take a jetstream (its always take, because they do it on purpose), you can up to double that to 1800mph.
The jet stream is max 400mph. Even TB says that.
Quote
So that would put the distance somewhere between 12600 and 25200.  Doesn't seem out of the ordinary for either a flat earth or round earth map.
Really, go do your sums again.
I know round when I see it.

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2008, 12:19:46 PM »
On the basis of a FE distance of 20,000 miles (give or take), which no-one has yet challenged and a published cruising speed of 500mph it would take 40 hours.
That would make it arrive 31 hours late. I think someone might notice that. They also might just run out of fuel.

Even if the plane was in the fastest jetstream of 400 mph, it would still take over 20 hours.

So neither, 'jetstreams' or 'the plane arrives late' are adequate explanations.
I know round when I see it.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2008, 12:34:08 PM »
Quote
Would this be a flight you say doesn't exist.

How exactly can I go on a plane you claim does not exist. Asking is sort of accepting it must exist.

Why would it matter?

If I am in on the conspiracy, I could be lying.

So in other words you haven't taken this flight. Do I have that right?

That means you haven't even given us third hand evidence for the RE model. You've just presented an assumption. How are we to know whether that flight experienced an in-flight delay, how fast it went, or if it traveled in the jetstream? How do we know whether this flight even exists at all?

Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2008, 12:35:48 PM »
The flight you posted is 14 hours. 
No it isn't, there is 5 hours time difference.
This is pretty basic stuff.

I ignored your posted time of 8:40 because it is wrong.  The saa website only says 18:00 to 07:40, which is 14 hours.  Even if you want to "assume" local times, its not 8 hours.

This website posts a 10.5 hour flight time: http://south-african-airways-timetable.com/C-GRU-1.html, so maybe start with that...

However, you just ignored all of the answers to your question.  The FE map is not agreed on.  The distance is not agreed on.  Take your best guess of the flight time, and flight speed (with jet stream), and _that_ is your best guess of the distance.  Nothing outside of FE in the distances calculated.  And thats without the assumption that the posted flight times might just be plain wrong.

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2008, 12:42:03 PM »
Quote
Would this be a flight you say doesn't exist.

How exactly can I go on a plane you claim does not exist. Asking is sort of accepting it must exist.

Why would it matter?

If I am in on the conspiracy, I could be lying.

So in other words you haven't taken this flight. Do I have that right?

That means you haven't even given us third hand evidence for the RE model. You've just presented an assumption. How are we to know whether that flight experienced an in-flight delay, how fast it went, or if it traveled in the jetstream? How do we know whether this flight even exists at all?

So only first hand evidence is admissible, but the evidence of anyone who has traveled into space is not because they are part of the conspiracy.

It really didn't take you long to revert to that tired, irrelevant, spurious nonsense.

In-flight delay of 31 hours. Yeh, that's much more likely. Happens on every flight, every day.

You have posted that the jetstream goes at 400 mph. That is not even a quarter the speed it would need to be.
I know round when I see it.

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lindelof

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2008, 12:45:20 PM »
All data on the jet streams/ocean currents/plane speeds is faked by the conspiracy to create the illusion that the Earth is round!!

Another victory for FE!! :D

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2008, 01:00:26 PM »

I ignored your posted time of 8:40 because it is wrong.  The saa website only says 18:00 to 07:40, which is 14 hours.  Even if you want to "assume" local times, its not 8 hours.

18:00 to 07:40 is 13:40. However Sao Paulo is 5 hours behind Jo'burg. You subtract the 5 hours and get 8:40. Btw flight times are always given in local time.

If you think the published flight times are both say, SA time then the Jo'burg to Sao Paulo flight takes 5:40 hours. (Dep 10:20 arv 16:00).

Quote
This website posts a 10.5 hour flight time: http://south-african-airways-timetable.com/C-GRU-1.html, so maybe start with that...

Fine, call it 10 hours if you want. The plane still has to fly more than 3 times faster than it is able to.

Quote
However, you just ignored all of the answers to your question.  The FE map is not agreed on.  The distance is not agreed on.

And you don't think that is a major problem for FE?
If it is not agreed tell me what you think the distance is.


Quote
Take your best guess of the flight time, and flight speed (with jet stream), and _that_ is your best guess of the distance.  Nothing outside of FE in the distances calculated.  And thats without the assumption that the posted flight times might just be plain wrong.


Let's assume you can calculate the distance the way you state.
Would that methodology also work for flights from South America to Australia and then on the South Africa.
If so please give me the individual distances Jo'burg -> Sao Paulo -> Syndey -> Jo'burg.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 02:58:35 PM by Youre avin a larf »
I know round when I see it.

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2008, 01:09:37 PM »

However, you just ignored all of the answers to your question. 


Tell me which answer I missed, and I will reply to it?
I know round when I see it.

Re: How fast do A340's fly
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2008, 01:11:08 PM »
As I said, the answer has been provided.  I simply do not see a discrepancy from a flat earth.