Southern Cross

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lindelof

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Southern Cross
« on: April 23, 2008, 11:47:42 AM »
So, if you're in, say, Tierra Del Fuego and you look due south, you see the like the southern cross and various other stars.  If you're in like Australia or New Zealand or something and you look due south, than you see the same stars.

If you look at a flat earth map like

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=3500

that pretty clearly doesn't make sense.  In the flat earth model when you look south from Tierra Del Fuego you are looking in a totally different direction than when you look south from Australia, so you shouldn't see the same stuff in the sky.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2008, 02:17:28 PM »
You wouldn't see the same constellations in the sky at those two far off points.

What accounts do you have of observers in Tierra Del Fuego and Australia seeing the same stars at the same time?

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lindelof

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Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2008, 02:42:46 PM »
Yeah, I don't have any specific accounts (people usually don't verify the obvious), but I sort of assume that if people at different places in the Southern Hemisphere (southern bits of south america, southern africa, australia & oceania, antartica, the ocean) saw totally different constellations when they looked south than someone would have noticed.  It'd be pretty obvious.

Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2008, 02:51:42 PM »
Because Xenos is confuseing our brains with his mind controll. Donate to scientology quickly before he gets you to!
Easy as 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679

Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2008, 02:55:44 PM »
the stars are as far away as san fran is to boston.

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lindelof

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Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2008, 05:38:01 PM »
You wouldn't see the same constellations in the sky at those two far off points.



But people DO see the same constellations at those points. And at every other place in the southern hemisphere.

Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2008, 06:30:04 PM »
Actually, the Southern Cross isn't due south. And only one of its stars is the functionary in the Southern Hemisphere in the same manner as Polaris is in the Northern Hemisphere.

(I wish I had diagrams for what I'm about to explain...)

The argument for the same constellations to appear in Tierra del Fuego and in Australia rely on the passage of time for both a round earth model and a flat earth model. For instance:

[Round Earth]
Tierra del Fuego sees Southern Cross; at same instant, Australia sees sunshine and is instantly blinded.

[Flat Earth]
Tierra del Fuego sees Southern Cross; at same time, Australia, so far away, would obviously be seeing the rising sun which hasn't had time to grace Argentina yet.

The extreme distance prevents either from seeing the same constellations at the same time because of the way rotation works in both models:

In the round earth model, the earth rotates and creates the movement of stars and planets and such. In the flat earth model, the earth remains stationary and everything else moves. In either event, the same phenomena is experienced as has been previously described but with different mechanisms.

When arguing for one or the other, one must take into accounts the mechanics of both.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2008, 06:30:07 PM »
Quote
But people DO see the same constellations at those points.

No they don't.

What testimonials or first hand accounts can you provide to demonstrate that they do?

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lindelof

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Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2008, 10:38:37 PM »
Yeah, Ivan,  I get what you're saying.  However, in the flat earth model the Southern Cross (and all the other stars in the southward direction) would have to move all the way around the earth, so it would move in a predominantly westward direction.  But it doesn't, it moves in a small circle around the celestial south pole.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap000715.html

http://www.redbubble.com/people/davidburrows/art/39483-8-star-trails

& you can find however many more you want.  Also, if you were far enough south (inside antartica) you would probably be able to see the constellations at exactly the same time (from locations on opposite sides of antarctica) since you can have like a 20 or more hour night.

Okay Tom.  I already said that I do not have "testimonials or first hand accounts."  What I'm relying on is a LACK of testimonials and first hand accounts.  Let me try to put this as simply as possible:

-The Flat Earth model that you present implies that stars in the southern sky behave very differently than the standard consensus on how they behave.
-There are a lot of people in the southern hemisphere who look at the sky.
-If they saw some large weirdness in star behavior (like if they saw different constellations like you say they would) they would say something & it would be a big deal.
-But they haven't.
-So your Flat Earth model is incorrect.

I mean, I don't have any first hand accounts of huge yeti running through the streets of New York yesterday.  And I think that's pretty good evidence that no yeti ran through the streets of New York.  Don't you?

& you could probably get testimonials.  I don't really care all that much.

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Kill-9

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Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 01:56:22 AM »
Quote
But people DO see the same constellations at those points.

No they don't.

What testimonials or first hand accounts can you provide to demonstrate that they do?
We have web pages, databases, computer programs, amateur astronomers, scientists, and pretty much the rest of society on our side. You're going against this. The burden of proof is on you Tom. We're waiting.
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TheA1pha0mega

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Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2008, 07:33:56 AM »
And waiting, and waiting, and waiting...

Tom, you always use a lack of first hand accounts to try to back up your stories. We can't do the same?  ;)

Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2008, 03:38:53 PM »
Its aliens that are inside your body put heir by aliens.

$cientology will reveal the truth!
Easy as 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 03:00:00 PM »
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-If they saw some large weirdness in star behavior (like if they saw different constellations like you say they would) they would say something & it would be a big deal.

Do you have a personal relationship with every astronomer in the Southern Hemisphere?  ???

Quote
Okay Tom.  I already said that I do not have "testimonials or first hand accounts."

That's all I needed to know.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 03:03:28 PM by Tom Bishop »

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lindelof

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Re: Southern Cross
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2008, 03:10:40 PM »
Quote
-If they saw some large weirdness in star behavior (like if they saw different constellations like you say they would) they would say something & it would be a big deal.

Do you have a personal relationship with every astronomer in the Southern Hemisphere?  ???

Quote
Okay Tom.  I already said that I do not have "testimonials or first hand accounts."

That's all I needed to know.

Tom; how do you think stars in the southern hemisphere behave?

Also, do you really think that if they behaved in a way that is totally different from the way that RE theory says they behave than no one would notice? [not just talking about astronomers;but anyone who looks at the sky carefully].
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 03:21:53 PM by lindelof »