The sun and north star positions

As you can see in the picture showing the position of the sun, it makes perfect sense that the Earth is round. The position (in degrees) of the sun in the sky during an equinox is equal to 90-your latitude.

Snell's law implies that the sun will appear higher than it actually is.

Quote from: Fredo on April 19, 2008, 06:45:59 AM

As you can see in the picture showing the position of the sun, it makes perfect sense that the Earth is round. The position (in degrees) of the sun in the sky during an equinox is equal to 90-your latitude.

but

Quote from: jdoe on April 22, 2008, 01:32:42 AM

Snell's law implies that the sun will appear higher than it actually is.

therefore the sun should appear higher than 0 degrees at the north pole at the equinox. How is this possible? Answer: It isn't. So the earth cannot be round.

According to FET, the sun at the north pole at equinox should appear 17.45 degrees above the horizon.  Why is this not observed?

According to FET, the sun at the north pole at equinox should appear 17.45 degrees above the horizon.  Why is this not observed?

distance of poll from equator: 24900mi/2 = 12450mi

Quote from: markjo on August 08, 2008, 05:33:00 AM

According to FET, the sun at the north pole at equinox should appear 17.45 degrees above the horizon.  Why is this not observed?

I make it:

height of sun over equator: 3000mi
distance of poll from equator: 24900mi/2 = 12450mi
altitude of sun: atan(3000/12450) = 13.55 degrees

Actually, it's 6225 miles from pole to equator.  12,450 miles is from pole to rim (according to the FAQ).

Quote from: markjo on August 08, 2008, 05:33:00 AM

Actually, it's 6225 miles from pole to equator.  12,450 miles is from pole to rim (according to the FAQ).

We're talking about FET. Why are you bringing actuality into it.

90-42 does not equal 48. You fail.

Quote from: taters343 on May 06, 2008, 03:21:42 PM

90-42 does not equal 48. You fail.

Lol, the stupid 15 year old doesn't even know his basic maths.



I blame the American education system.

Ok, does anyone have some real arguments against my evidence? I assure you, taters, that 90-42 is in fact 48.

Other terms: suppose everyone on this forum told me what city they're in. I send them back the latitude that I claim they're at. They take that number as gospel, make declination measurements of Polaris and the sun, and post them. All their measurements would corroborate that the sun is 8 miles away if I had manipulated the latitudes I fed them.

Quote from: zeroply on August 20, 2008, 10:53:21 PM

Other terms: suppose everyone on this forum told me what city they're in. I send them back the latitude that I claim they're at. They take that number as gospel, make declination measurements of Polaris and the sun, and post them. All their measurements would corroborate that the sun is 8 miles away if I had manipulated the latitudes I fed them.

That wouldn't work.

Are you seeing a specific flaw or do you just need more detail?

Quote from: zeroply on August 21, 2008, 11:56:56 AM

Are you seeing a specific flaw or do you just need more detail?

A specific flaw.

This is asking a lot, I know, but is there any way you could share what it is so that I can actually try to correct it? Or are you modeling your scientific paradigm on the Patriot Act?

Quote from: zeroply on August 22, 2008, 10:48:15 AM

This is asking a lot, I know, but is there any way you could share what it is so that I can actually try to correct it? Or are you modeling your scientific paradigm on the Patriot Act?

I certainly can share. Not every member on this website can see Polaris.

That won't be a problem. Obviously if you're too far the amount of atmosphere in between will make seeing some objects impossible. If my calculations are correct then everyone who lives far from the North Pole will see Polaris very close to the horizon, and people even beyond are just too far away to see it.

Quote from: zeroply on August 22, 2008, 03:10:29 PM

That won't be a problem. Obviously if you're too far the amount of atmosphere in between will make seeing some objects impossible. If my calculations are correct then everyone who lives far from the North Pole will see Polaris very close to the horizon, and people even beyond are just too far away to see it.

It will make measuring the declination of Polaris difficult for me at 34° S latitude.

No, that 34 degree figure is from the RE maps and is wrong. If you tell me what city you're in, I'll tell you the real latitude based on my correct FE maps. More than likely you'll just be too far away to see Polaris from where you are. It's a matter of distance, not curvature.

Quote from: zeroply on August 23, 2008, 01:39:19 AM

No, that 34 degree figure is from the RE maps and is wrong. If you tell me what city you're in, I'll tell you the real latitude based on my correct FE maps. More than likely you'll just be too far away to see Polaris from where you are. It's a matter of distance, not curvature.

Regardless, not being able to see it will make measurement of its declination a bit tricky.

How do you know you can't possibly see it? Aren't you basing that on your assumption that the Earth is round?

Can you see Pluto?

Quote from: zeroply on August 23, 2008, 01:29:58 PM

How do you know you can't possibly see it? Aren't you basing that on your assumption that the Earth is round?

I'm basing it on my assumption that people have thought the Earth to be round for so long that if Polaris could be seen from this latitude then somebody would have noticed by now.

Well, the problem is really in your latitude assumption. How do you KNOW that you're at 42 degrees? You're basing that on an assumption that the Earth is round, so obviously all your results are going to lead you back there.

Quote from: Robosteve on August 22, 2008, 05:19:45 PM

Quote from: zeroply on August 22, 2008, 03:10:29 PM

That won't be a problem. Obviously if you're too far the amount of atmosphere in between will make seeing some objects impossible. If my calculations are correct then everyone who lives far from the North Pole will see Polaris very close to the horizon, and people even beyond are just too far away to see it.

It will make measuring the declination of Polaris difficult for me at 34° S latitude.

No, that 34 degree figure is from the RE maps and is wrong. If you tell me what city you're in, I'll tell you the real latitude based on my correct FE maps. More than likely you'll just be too far away to see Polaris from where you are. It's a matter of distance, not curvature.

You need to post proof of your latitude for your argument to hold any water at all, and I doubt you'll be able to do that without first proving the Earth is round...