Frisbee Earth

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Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2016, 09:43:12 AM »
All I was trying to answer is why the sun looks like it goes down.  I don't have time to think about all the other nutty stuff you guys said, although jimmy the crab was funny.
If you can do some simple sums, you will find that on your flat earth, at the time of sunset, for a sun always at 5,000 km high, and about 15,000 km distant (slant distance) the sun would be about 19° above the horizon.  No perspective can change an angle like that!  The sun would be ABOVE the horizon by quite a big angle.


This UTube video shows how the sun and moon would behave on a Flat Earth.

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Nice video. My 2 points are:

1) Notice the sky above the N.Pole. It spins around the N. Celestial Pole. Now notice the sky around the "S.Pole" near Antarctica. It does NOT spin around the S. Celestial Pole but makes a 50,000+ mi circle in the sky. It is supposed to act like the N.Pole/N. Celestial Pole (we have LOTS of pictures of the S. Celestial Pole - the center of southern star trails). The true S.Pole is below the N.Pole, under the disk, and the true S. Celestial Pole is in the sky above it. It can not be seen from above the disk. This directly disproves FE models.

2) Hence the need for a "spotlight" Sun that relatively sharply illuminates the Earth. The Sun CAN NOT BE SEEN outside the "spotlight". It therefore DOES NOT ILLUMINATE the Moon (hence self-illuminating). It acts like the following (try to explain sunrise/sunset especially in December):
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

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Marciano

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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2016, 01:48:51 PM »
Question one seems obvious, the stars should look like they orbit the earth from anywhere on a flat earth. 
The problem is the numerous images like this, where stars rotate around two points:


I have no idea and I want to give whoever posted that the benefit of the doubt, but I can't find anything about it online.  However, I did find several "photographs" of star trails that are obvious fakes.  So, I don't know.

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Question two is kind of funny, in that you call it "convenient."  The whole point of flat earth is to be true to what appears to be true;  it has nothing to do with "convenience."
Not an answer, though I agree the question's a pointless one.

o.k.

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Question three is confusing.  The Sun rises in the east and sets in the west.  Equinox is "the time or date (twice each year) at which the sun crosses the celestial equator, when day and night are of equal length (about September 22 and March 20)." (google definition). What's your problem? 
On the FE model, the Sun moves in a circle. Given how long a day would be (the time it takes to go half the circumference of its route) how then does it appear that its path is straight?

Oh, I see what you mean, sort of.  I don't know, but any diagram I've seen of round earth, shows curve in the Sun's transit at The Equator and everywhere else. 

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Question four seems silly.  The sun's moving away and our vision converges with the horizon as it moves out of site.  How could you not know that;  are you playing dumb?
Then why does it not dwindle and vanish to a small point, rather than remain the same size and vanish bottom up?


I'm not sure that it does.  My impression is that The Sun looks smaller as it moves away. 

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

As for your evidence, is all you have really paranoia, unsupported claims, and observations perfectly explained under RET? Hardly overwhelming. Most wouldn't even qualify as evidence, t's just "Because I say so."

I don't think so and quite frankly, I think you're just talking smack.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!

It's not eight inches over the first mile;  it's eight inches over the first foot!   ;D

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Marciano

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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2016, 01:56:43 PM »

Question four seems silly.  The sun's moving away and our vision converges with the horizon as it moves out of site.  How could you not know that;  are you playing dumb?

Not possible.  After the sun dips below the horizon, it illuminates the bottom of the cloud layer, meaning that the sun's altitude must be below the cloud layer itself in order for the light to illuminate the bottom.

In other words, the sun does actually set, and not even the zetetic method can claim otherwise.

Why?  I think you're just talking about "perspective." 
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!

It's not eight inches over the first mile;  it's eight inches over the first foot!   ;D

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2016, 02:22:09 PM »
I have no idea and I want to give whoever posted that the benefit of the doubt, but I can't find anything about it online.  However, I did find several "photographs" of star trails that are obvious fakes.  So, I don't know.
Google 'stars equator.' They're long exposures: book a holiday and you could take one yourself. Sort of a silly thing to lie about, when anyone could check it.

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Oh, I see what you mean, sort of.  I don't know, but any diagram I've seen of round earth, shows curve in the Sun's transit at The Equator and everywhere else. 
Not at the equinox.

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I'm not sure that it does.  My impression is that The Sun looks smaller as it moves away. 
But it still vanishes bottom-up rather than dwindling to a point.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Marciano

  • Flat Earth Believer
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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2016, 02:43:58 PM »
I have no idea and I want to give whoever posted that the benefit of the doubt, but I can't find anything about it online.  However, I did find several "photographs" of star trails that are obvious fakes.  So, I don't know.
Google 'stars equator.' They're long exposures: book a holiday and you could take one yourself. Sort of a silly thing to lie about, when anyone could check it.

Watch this
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
Flat Earth Star Trails Explained


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Oh, I see what you mean, sort of.  I don't know, but any diagram I've seen of round earth, shows curve in the Sun's transit at The Equator and everywhere else. 
Not at the equinox.

cant' find it

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I'm not sure that it does.  My impression is that The Sun looks smaller as it moves away. 
But it still vanishes bottom-up rather than dwindling to a point.

Start this one at minute two or just watch the whole thing!   " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
  TIMELAPSE OF THE SUN PROVES FLAT EARTH - HD
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!

It's not eight inches over the first mile;  it's eight inches over the first foot!   ;D

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CaptainMagpie

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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2016, 04:52:51 PM »
So I watched that, I did not see anything in that video other then some hand waving and time lapses of RE sunsets.
fuck off penguin.  I'll take my ban to tell you to go fuck your self.  Ban please.   I am waiting.

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Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2016, 06:49:07 PM »
FEers, not understanding Astronomy, don't "get it".

1) Why is the N.Pole and not the S.Pole in the middle of the disk/land/Earth in the first place? Why not use Antarctica as the center of the map?

2) As your video said, the farther away from the N.Pole you get, the LARGER the star circles. Why after hitting the equator, do they get smaller when the sky is getting BIGGER?

3) On a sphere, the sky starts at a single point above the N.Pole (N. Celestial Pole), increases in size until the equator (Celestial Equator) then shrinks again to a single point above the S.Pole (S. Celestial Pole). On a disk, the Earth and sky CONTINUE getting larger all the way to the edge. Why would the sky get SMALLER, to a single point near Antarctica, when the sky is 50,000+ mi in diameter there?

4) Why would everyone south of the equator (looking due SOUTH at its edge) see the S. Celestial Pole in the sky everywhere on Earth, just at different altitudes (that happen to correspond to their latitudes)? Look at your video. The sky is ROTATING around the N.Pole, NOT around a single point due SOUTH of EVERYONE below the equator.

5) Why would everyone in Antarctica (some 50,000+ mi along its edge - the "wall") be virtually looking straight up (70°+) at the S. Celestial Pole (center of southern star trails) and seeing 1/2 the sky to the equator? How would they see the other 1/2 of the sky on the other side of the disk to the equator?


(http://www.antarcticimages.com/keyword/Black/)

The TRUE S. Celestial Pole (in the sky above the TRUE S.Pole UNDER the N.Pole on the other side of the disk) is a single point that CAN NOT be seen from above the disk. This is the geometry of DISKS.

1) Get a Lazy Susan (merry-go-round, some disk that rotates)
2) Stick a cellphone/camera on it facing the edge (south)
3) Make a video of what you see when rotating it.
4) You will NOT get a single point but a huge arc/circle - the largest circle is above the edge.

QED
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2016, 03:55:17 PM »
Hello all,

My first time on the forum andere my first response.

I read somewhere above that the sun rises in the east.

I learned that that is not exactly true, dependuig upon the time of the year
 it is more or less a NE-ish rise of the sun.

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getrealzommb

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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2016, 05:05:26 PM »
Hello all,

My first time on the forum andere my first response.

I read somewhere above that the sun rises in the east.

I learned that that is not exactly true, dependuig upon the time of the year
 it is more or less a NE-ish rise of the sun.

welcome.

Where the son rises and sets exactly depends on the time of year and your latitude.  At the equator, on equinox, the sun rises due east and sets due west.

If you observe the sun rising from a NE direction, and setting NW you are likely to live in the southern hemisphere. 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 05:08:52 PM by getrealzommb »

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robintex

  • Ranters
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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2016, 05:27:27 PM »
I would say because there are no true FEers - there are only people who take the FE position as a debate topic.

And to make money from UTube videos. I agree with you, no one really believes the world is flat. Its just about the debate.

There is really no question about the shape of the earth. It IS a globe. ;D

But this website seems to work on the premise of  just about ideas and debates  of how things would HAVE TO BE IF the earth was flat. Nothing much else. It can be fun to hear of those ideas which flat earthers continue to dream up. ::)

And just an observation. It would seem that if the sun was a spotlight- or acts like a spotlight - there would be light as long as the earth is under the beam of that spotlight and darkness when the earth isn't under the beam of that spotlight. There would be no twilight. ???
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 05:31:09 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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rabinoz

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  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2016, 08:58:32 PM »
Hello all,
My first time on the forum andere my first response.
I read somewhere above that the sun rises in the east.
I learned that that is not exactly true, dependuig upon the time of the year
 it is more or less a NE-ish rise of the sun.
welcome.
Where the son rises and sets exactly depends on the time of year and your latitude.  At the equator, on equinox, the sun rises due east and sets due west.
If you observe the sun rising from a NE direction, and setting NW you are likely to live in the southern hemisphere.
I live in Australia. Here we are about a month after our summer solstice and the sun is rising at almost ESE, and setting at almost WSW.
At the equinoxes it rises due East and sets due West, as everywhere else!
At the winter solstice I expect it to rise at around ENE and set around WNW.

Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2016, 11:32:18 AM »

Question four seems silly.  The sun's moving away and our vision converges with the horizon as it moves out of site.  How could you not know that;  are you playing dumb?

Not possible.  After the sun dips below the horizon, it illuminates the bottom of the cloud layer, meaning that the sun's altitude must be below the cloud layer itself in order for the light to illuminate the bottom.

In other words, the sun does actually set, and not even the zetetic method can claim otherwise.

Why?  I think you're just talking about "perspective."

What do you mean "why?"  This is obvious.  If you don't think so, you have a simple task -- provide an alternative explanation for the everyday phenomenon of the sun illuminating the bottom of the clouds just after sunset, but not illuminating the top of the clouds or the ground.  I would even accept a plausible drawing on MS Paint.

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rabinoz

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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2016, 09:16:15 PM »

Question four seems silly.  The sun's moving away and our vision converges with the horizon as it moves out of site.  How could you not know that;  are you playing dumb?

Not possible.  After the sun dips below the horizon, it illuminates the bottom of the cloud layer, meaning that the sun's altitude must be below the cloud layer itself in order for the light to illuminate the bottom.

In other words, the sun does actually set, and not even the zetetic method can claim otherwise.

Why?  I think you're just talking about "perspective."

What do you mean "why?"  This is obvious.  If you don't think so, you have a simple task -- provide an alternative explanation for the everyday phenomenon of the sun illuminating the bottom of the clouds just after sunset, but not illuminating the top of the clouds or the ground.  I would even accept a plausible drawing on MS Paint.
It seems a little strange to me that as soon as an unanswerable question comes up,
 Marciano, like most FE supporters simply go quiet!

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Luke 22:35-38

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  • The earth is a globe, DUH! prove its not
Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2016, 12:58:16 PM »

Question four seems silly.  The sun's moving away and our vision converges with the horizon as it moves out of site.  How could you not know that;  are you playing dumb?

Not possible.  After the sun dips below the horizon, it illuminates the bottom of the cloud layer, meaning that the sun's altitude must be below the cloud layer itself in order for the light to illuminate the bottom.

In other words, the sun does actually set, and not even the zetetic method can claim otherwise.

Why?  I think you're just talking about "perspective."

What do you mean "why?"  This is obvious.  If you don't think so, you have a simple task -- provide an alternative explanation for the everyday phenomenon of the sun illuminating the bottom of the clouds just after sunset, but not illuminating the top of the clouds or the ground.  I would even accept a plausible drawing on MS Paint.
It seems a little strange to me that as soon as an unanswerable question comes up,
 Marciano, like most FE supporters simply go quiet!
strange but typical.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2016, 09:30:34 AM »
Just a thought I had.

How does Celestial Navigation fit into the picture?

You know what I mean: shooting the sun at it's highest point, shooting the star positions/angles, all with a sextant.


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rabinoz

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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2016, 12:41:45 AM »

Question four seems silly.  The sun's moving away and our vision converges with the horizon as it moves out of site.  How could you not know that;  are you playing dumb?

Not possible.  After the sun dips below the horizon, it illuminates the bottom of the cloud layer, meaning that the sun's altitude must be below the cloud layer itself in order for the light to illuminate the bottom.

In other words, the sun does actually set, and not even the zetetic method can claim otherwise.

Why?  I think you're just talking about "perspective."

What do you mean "why?"  This is obvious.  If you don't think so, you have a simple task -- provide an alternative explanation for the everyday phenomenon of the sun illuminating the bottom of the clouds just after sunset, but not illuminating the top of the clouds or the ground.  I would even accept a plausible drawing on MS Paint.
It seems a little strange to me that as soon as an unanswerable question comes up,
 Marciano, like most FE supporters simply go quiet!
strange but typical.

Seems a bit funny!  Both the Humble_Scientist and Marciano have simply gone missing!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2016, 08:15:41 AM »
I know, right? As soon as RE'ers get stuck on a question, caught in their ignorance, or shown to be incorrect, they simply stop responding.  Happens all the time.  It's sad, really.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Luke 22:35-38

  • 3608
  • The earth is a globe, DUH! prove its not
Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2016, 06:03:10 PM »
I know, right? As soon as RE'ers get stuck on a question, caught in their ignorance, or shown to be incorrect, they simply stop responding.  Happens all the time.  It's sad, really.

When did that happen? Can you give an example? Plus this happens on your side far more often.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2016, 10:42:15 PM »
Well, getrealzombb and I were having a discussion on 'gravity' and Special Relativity.  You see, he has a HND in electrical and mechanical engineering and has a special interest in SR so he was looking forward to 'ripping me a new one'.

After making a statement about Tachyons and inertial motion, I called him out on his lack of knowledge of the subject.  Instead of defending his position, he just runs away.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Marciano

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 205
  • Flat is where it's at!
Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2016, 04:23:02 PM »

Question four seems silly.  The sun's moving away and our vision converges with the horizon as it moves out of site.  How could you not know that;  are you playing dumb?

Not possible.  After the sun dips below the horizon, it illuminates the bottom of the cloud layer, meaning that the sun's altitude must be below the cloud layer itself in order for the light to illuminate the bottom.

In other words, the sun does actually set, and not even the zetetic method can claim otherwise.

Why?  I think you're just talking about "perspective."

What do you mean "why?"  This is obvious.  If you don't think so, you have a simple task -- provide an alternative explanation for the everyday phenomenon of the sun illuminating the bottom of the clouds just after sunset, but not illuminating the top of the clouds or the ground.  I would even accept a plausible drawing on MS Paint.
 

It's moving further away from you.  As it moves further away, it would look different.  Not only that, it changes the angle. 

It seems to get dimmer, the further it moves away from me and if the world is flat and the sun is only a few thousand miles away and it is about the size of the moon, then the angle of the sunlight would change, as it moved away from me.  So, as it got dimmer and dimmer and shown through at a greater and greater angle through the clouds, I suppose it's appearance and perhaps even color, would change...  Oh look, it does!

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!

It's not eight inches over the first mile;  it's eight inches over the first foot!   ;D

*

Luke 22:35-38

  • 3608
  • The earth is a globe, DUH! prove its not
Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2016, 05:37:12 PM »

Question four seems silly.  The sun's moving away and our vision converges with the horizon as it moves out of site.  How could you not know that;  are you playing dumb?

Not possible.  After the sun dips below the horizon, it illuminates the bottom of the cloud layer, meaning that the sun's altitude must be below the cloud layer itself in order for the light to illuminate the bottom.

In other words, the sun does actually set, and not even the zetetic method can claim otherwise.

Why?  I think you're just talking about "perspective."

What do you mean "why?"  This is obvious.  If you don't think so, you have a simple task -- provide an alternative explanation for the everyday phenomenon of the sun illuminating the bottom of the clouds just after sunset, but not illuminating the top of the clouds or the ground.  I would even accept a plausible drawing on MS Paint.
 

It's moving further away from you.  As it moves further away, it would look different.  Not only that, it changes the angle. 

It seems to get dimmer, the further it moves away from me and if the world is flat and the sun is only a few thousand miles away and it is about the size of the moon, then the angle of the sunlight would change, as it moved away from me.  So, as it got dimmer and dimmer and shown through at a greater and greater angle through the clouds, I suppose it's appearance and perhaps even color, would change...  Oh look, it does!



Why it doesn't turn into a sliver and then disappears during sunset? Or why can't I see the light even after it disappears like seeing the city lights before actually seeing the city itself?
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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Woody

  • 1144
Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2016, 02:53:52 AM »
If I understand Marciano's meaning of perspective clearly I do not see how that can be an answer for why it looks like the sun sets.

Seems to me the answer would also need to include why the sun does not appear to change size throughout the day.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2016, 03:36:17 AM »
I know, right? As soon as RE'ers get stuck on a question, caught in their ignorance, or shown to be incorrect, they simply stop responding.  Happens all the time.  It's sad, really.
Sorry I'm so late responding, but here goes!

I plead guiltily your Honour!
At least when the posts are by:
Sandokhan - when I would have to duck to avoid the pages of "cut & paste" that spews out!
Papa Legba - when the repetitions of the "same old. . ."  denying a proper interpretation of Newton,  etc! (mind you he's no FEer, he's a No Earther!)
Sceptimatic - when I would get reams on squishy molecules completely at odds with the "kinetic theory of gases" etc.
JRoweSkeptic - with his magical aether with so many wondrous properties that Flanders would call it the "Wompom".
TheEngineer - when the answers are invariably correct, but so often quite carefully devoid of any information!
Sometimes I do chicken out when a post has so many points that seem wrong that my poor old brain can't face the task!
What bothers me most is that so many posts simply have no idea how the globe earth "works", yet they still try to criticise simply understood aspects.
But, I get a bit embarrassed by the number of "graveyard" posts showing the last poster as "RABinOZ".
I guess my posts are so boring, I don't really blame anyone.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Frisbee Earth
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2016, 07:13:31 AM »
*Yawn*  Sorry, that was really boring.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson