FE Gravitation

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FE Gravitation
« on: February 16, 2008, 05:42:50 PM »
I have been on this forum a little while now, so I hope I don't seem like too big a noob asking this but I am curious about gravitation in FE theory. In the explaination of FE gravitation as per the discription in the FAQ it is stated that the Earth accelerates at 9.8m/s^2, now It was shown in previous threads that this figure will decrease asymptotically to zero as the Earths velocity would approach that of the speed of light. Okay, so in the Earths FoR this would be constant, but this leads to another problem for me.

As I understand the theory (or what I knowledge of it I have gleaned from reading some of The Engineer's threads) the physics of gravitation are exactly the same so that the Earth would cause a  gravitational field by the effect of its mass on space-time, so this should cause the observed gravity of the Earth to be higher than 9.8 m/s  because of the effects of the Earths mass on space time.  Should not the 9.8m/s^2 figure be adjusted therefore?

Another problem with this idea is that if this is the model for gravitation for FE theory, would not the tremendous amount of energy needed to accelerate the entire mass of the Earth would create its own gravitational field, should not in that case our experienced gravitation be greater than what is actually experienced, or does the Earth have less mass in FE theory? Why is it necessary that the FE be accelerating in the first place anyways?

[FoR question Edited out ]

 I hope I have not made any foolish assumptions. Thank you for reading this.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 06:36:46 PM by [][][] »
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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2008, 06:19:10 PM »
Never mind about the FoR argument, I think I understand what The Engineer meant, that the effects of time dilation on the Earth would balance the effects of the decreased acceleration of the Earth as our velocity approachs c, in our FoR. Correct?
The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us. -Some Frenchy

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fshy94

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2008, 07:01:14 PM »
Well the theory goes that the Earth is gravitationally neutral from the mantle on down, for some odd reason. Now the how is beyond me.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2008, 10:14:14 PM »
Well the theory goes that the Earth is gravitationally neutral from the mantle on down, for some odd reason. Now the how is beyond me.

Brilliant!
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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2008, 11:27:08 AM »
Well the theory goes that the Earth is gravitationally neutral from the mantle on down, for some odd reason. Now the how is beyond me.
Love it. Earth has no mass below the mantle. Flying lava! Yipeee!
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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2008, 02:18:29 PM »
It's simple really. In FET, mass doesn't curve space-time.

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fshy94

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2008, 07:59:43 PM »
It's simple really. In FET, mass doesn't curve space-time.

To which I respond Cavendish. So, only some mass curves spacetime? Bull...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

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divito the truthist

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2008, 12:23:26 AM »
You don't think there is a possibility that such mass exists? Or that the conditions that accompany the mass would result in such an occurrence?
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[][][]

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2008, 07:23:41 AM »
You don't think there is a possibility that such mass exists? Or that the conditions that accompany the mass would result in such an occurrence?

As to whether such a theoretical mass may or may not exist, I don't really care to argue. (But a theory that relies on the existance of such a thing strikes me as silly). Mainly for this reason though, I do not deny the possibility that such an exotic particle may exist as some have theorized with a negetive mass, which as far as I know is allowed by General Relativity, but such a particle IS specifically denied be a posibility in the Standard Model. If you are claiming that a particle with a negetive mass, or any form of particle that is not affected by gravity, exists, then it is your responsibility to show some evidence that such a particle exists.

So far, no astrophysicist has been able to show that these things exist anywhere, or show that such a phenomenon occurs, so as far as this argument is concerned, unless the existance of such matter can be established, there is no reason to belive such particles occur in nature and therefore not a valid argument for you to use.

Secondly, even if you theorize that the mass below the mantle is made of a "gravitationally neutral matter", what of the energy that is supposedly accelerates the Earth, and the immense gravitational field it should produce. This does seem to violate the principles of general relativity in this case (the energy required to accelerate the Earth). Theorizing that the mass under the mantle is gravitationally neutral solves only part of the problem you see, unless you want to argue that it is also some kind of impossible "gravitational buffer" that prevents the gravitation of the energy under the Earth from being felt.

These are the reasons I think UA is flawed and this site would do well to adopt a theory to argue that does not require it.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 10:32:08 AM by [][][] »
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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2008, 09:02:03 AM »
You don't think there is a possibility that such mass exists? Or that the conditions that accompany the mass would result in such an occurrence?

As to whether such a theoretical mass may or may not exist, I don't really care to argue. (But a theory that relies on the existance of such a thing strikes me as silly)  But can you explain why energy also does seem to violate the principles of general relativity in this case (the energy required to accelerate the Earth). Theorizing that the mass under the mantle is gravitationally neutral solves only part of the problem you see, unless you want to argue that it is also some kind of impossible "gravitational buffer" that prevents the gravitation of the energy under the Earth from being felt.

These are the reasons I think UA is flawed and this site would do well to adopt a theory to argue that does not require it.
I propose a layer on the underside of the earth made of matter which produces a gravitational field which pulls downwards.
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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2008, 01:00:37 AM »
Well the theory goes that the Earth is gravitationally neutral from the mantle on down, for some odd reason. Now the how is beyond me.
Love it. Earth has no mass below the mantle. Flying lava! Yipeee!
It's because the mass (gravity, whatever) of the rock inwards of the mantle and outwards are about equal.
Now with self-destructing intolerance for bullsh*t.

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2008, 02:11:08 AM »
It's simple really. In FET, mass doesn't curve space-time.

To which I respond Cavendish. So, only some mass curves spacetime? Bull...

Exactly but that's what they have to believe for the Earth to remain flat.

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fshy94

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2008, 11:27:29 AM »
Well the theory goes that the Earth is gravitationally neutral from the mantle on down, for some odd reason. Now the how is beyond me.
Love it. Earth has no mass below the mantle. Flying lava! Yipeee!
It's because the mass (gravity, whatever) of the rock inwards of the mantle and outwards are about equal.

You know, that logic is flawed horribly. Gravity does not have two charges, only one, therefore it can only add, not cancel.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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John Jackson

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2008, 08:34:46 PM »
You know, that logic is flawed horribly. Gravity does not have two charges, only one, therefore it can only add, not cancel.

You are wrong. Two equal masses would attract an object in the middle of them with equal forces, but opposite magnitudes, so it will feel no gravitational force.
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fshy94

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2008, 08:39:09 PM »
An object in the middle, yes. Not one on top. Read his argument, it states that the mass below the mantle is equal in mass to the mass above, therefore the mass on the top will get no force...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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John Jackson

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2008, 08:45:49 PM »
What is the gravitational force acting on a particle anywhere inside a homogenous spherical shell?
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Loard Z

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2008, 01:12:36 AM »
I then propose that the earth is gravitationally neutral due to the interaction of the moon and anti-moon.
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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2008, 05:01:52 AM »
It's simple really. In FET, mass doesn't curve space-time.

That's what I was trying to explain to 'TheEngineer' all along. FET is not consistent with GR.
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divito the truthist

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2008, 07:42:01 AM »
Which model doesn't believe in mass curving spacetime?
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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2008, 08:21:43 AM »
Which one do you think?
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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2008, 08:38:48 AM »
Cambridge Model
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divito the truthist

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2008, 10:42:57 AM »
Which one do you think?

I wasn't aware that any discounted the bending of spacetime.

Cambridge is Dogplatter's, no?
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fshy94

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2008, 10:46:15 AM »
Yes, he doesn't believe in curvature of spacetime, or in fact, any form of universal attraction of matter. He discounts the Cavendish experiment as due to wind, and air, despite being in sealed labs, which somewhat amuses me actually...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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John Jackson

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2008, 04:20:36 PM »
Which model doesn't believe in mass curving spacetime?

The one presented in the FAQ.
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TheEngineer

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2008, 01:12:59 PM »
Only the universality of it.


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einstien

Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2008, 09:15:36 PM »
Wow this is amazing this thread has so many holes in it there is no such thing as mass that doesn't bend space-time but I guess the next thing you FE say it GR is wrong. Hey but what can you say you probably don't even know anything about mass and what people think it is. And this anti-moon is brilliant, you better not mean that the moon is made of anti-particles because then you would have an incredible problem one that if true would doom earth. 

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John Jackson

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2008, 09:25:18 PM »
Only the universality of it.

Yes, writing partial sentences saves you from making a blunder. What ever do you mean?
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TheEngineer

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2008, 10:55:08 PM »
Yes, writing partial sentences saves you from making a blunder. What ever do you mean?
I don't know a clearer way of saying it. 


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TheEngineer

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2008, 10:55:54 PM »
Wow this is amazing this thread has so many holes in it there is no such thing as mass that doesn't bend space-time
Do you know this for a fact or are you making a rather large assumption?


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John Jackson

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Re: FE Gravitation
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2008, 11:46:17 PM »
Yes, writing partial sentences saves you from making a blunder. What ever do you mean?
I don't know a clearer way of saying it. 

So, which masses curve space - time and which don't?
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