Chain Logic and God

Heres a good investigation on this topic:

Quote from: fshy94 on March 05, 2008, 06:34:44 PM

Actually, the BoP lies upon the person making the claim. In this case, that would just happen to be erm...you. You've reminded others of this countless times.

I'm confused; do you have evidence that your mind and body defy the laws of science to establish free will? What aspect of your life has not been the result of multiple variables?

Otherwise, I see no reason to try and ask for evidence of something that is to me, quite apparent.

I love how you try to make a point by saying violating, when in fact free will is the result of following "laws of science" (lawls at whatever that is supposed to mean, didn't know thought processes had laws)

Rather late reply.

Quote from: Saint Raist on March 25, 2008, 08:12:08 PM

I love how you try to make a point by saying violating, when in fact free will is the result of following "laws of science" (lawls at whatever that is supposed to mean, didn't know thought processes had laws)

I was referring to the laws of science that everything obeys. I'm unaware of anything that doesn't follow them. Even chaotic systems are deterministic, so to say that there exists something in the mind that can be outside these laws, as free will must be, must have some basis.

In what way would it be deterministic if you can't determine any form of pattern.

Quote from: khaspal on March 26, 2008, 08:11:34 AM

In what way would it be deterministic if you can't determine any form of pattern.

What? Since when does it have to have a pattern to be deterministic?

"chaotic systems are systems that look random but aren't. They are actually deterministic systems (predictable if you have enough information) governed by physical laws, that are very difficult to predict accurately (a commonly used example is weather forecasting)."

"Systems that exhibit mathematical chaos are deterministic and thus orderly in some sense; this technical use of the word chaos is at odds with common parlance, which suggests complete disorder. A related field of physics called quantum chaos theory studies systems that follow the laws of quantum mechanics. Recently, another field, called relativistic chaos,[5] has emerged to describe systems that follow the laws of general relativity.

As well as being orderly in the sense of being deterministic, chaotic systems usually have well defined statistics. For example, the Lorenz system pictured is chaotic, but has a clearly defined structure. Bounded chaos is a useful term for describing models of disorder."

What? Since when does it have to have a pattern to be deterministic?

Quote from: divito the truthist on March 26, 2008, 09:52:32 AM

I'm very calm.

Google returns on it are plentiful and go a good way towards explanations. Wikipedia's external links found here are also worth noting.

As for actual literature, I've only read one; being "Does God Play Dice? - The Mathematics of Chaos"

It was better than most of the online references, and most online reviews praise it, which is why I decided to read it in the first place. Apparently there is a revised and updated version available now as well.

Rather late reply.

Quote from: Saint Raist on March 25, 2008, 08:12:08 PM

I love how you try to make a point by saying violating, when in fact free will is the result of following "laws of science" (lawls at whatever that is supposed to mean, didn't know thought processes had laws)

I was referring to the laws of science that everything obeys. I'm unaware of anything that doesn't follow them. Even chaotic systems are deterministic, so to say that there exists something in the mind that can be outside these laws, as free will must be, must have some basis.