Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun

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sokarul

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #90 on: February 14, 2008, 03:00:50 PM »
You are losing your marbles chum or get a tutor. The photographs are self-explanatory.

You are the dumbass asking for explanations already provided in this thread that you can't understand anyways. You haven't proved me wrong at least once.
I don't need any explinations from you.  You have no idea what you talk about so you list random links from random people so you don't have to use any of your own knowledge. 

Quote
But I am here to help along the way...it does not matter from what height they were taken, given a curvature of 50 meters, unless you are in a hot air baloon when you make them; the photographs show clearly no curvature whatsoever over the Lake Ontario all the way to Toronto. If there was a curvature, it would be clearly visible, no mistake about that, you couldn't see the shoreline. Given a midpoint visual obstacle of 50 meters, if there was one, even if the photograph was shot from 75 meters in height, you'd see it (the curvature), you couldn't miss it; but, as you can see clearly, the height from which it was made is well under 50 meters, and then, you would have seen that curvature all over the screen, if there was one, drone-head.
Why can't you understand that when you go up in altitude you can see further?  The picture I posted was taken at water line.  None of the pictures you posted are at water line.  The first one is clearly from a helicopter.  I would venture they all are as it woudl be way easier to go out there in a helicopter and take a picture and then come back.

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Your photograph shows that it was modified crudely to include a curvature absolutely inexistent in reality. Get out of that comatose and muddled thinking of yours and see what the photographs I posted tell you: no curvature observable there, there is no ascending slope, no maximum midpoint curvature of 50 meters, and no descending slope to the opposite shoreline. Your photograph has been modified, I have to tell you again, by that guy on flickr, you have to be a real idiot to believe in that photograph, to give me the chance to prove you wrong yet again, or to base your opinions on shit like that, but in your case, it's no surprise...
You base your claims on angelfire websites.  Anyone can make those.  You think that atoms don't exist and the aether does.  Don't even give me shit. 


[/quote]
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fshy94

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #91 on: February 14, 2008, 06:12:51 PM »
fartshy94 ('94 means this guy is 14 years old...just reached puberty), you have no business being here...I explained already what is going on so that even you can understand...so silence from you, amigo...

ROFLMAO. You know, there are plenty of other ways to put '94 in your username. For the record, '91, 16, and funnily enough, smarter than you will ever be....now take your own advice, mkay? That, or actually re-read, and think.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

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sandokhan

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #92 on: February 14, 2008, 11:56:25 PM »
Sokrates, that photograph of yours is a practical joke, don't you get it? Look carefully at the downtown Toronto buildings (Toronto Tower), it was taken from a much closer distance (I would say under 20 miles), and using Adobe Photoshop, was pasted with a image taken who knows where, at the bottom of a wave, or with a modified flat sea level surface photograph taken somewhere else.

The photographs taken on the site http://www.weatherandsky.com/Mirages/Mirages.html as you can clearly see, are profesionally made, the photographer even has access to a newtonian reflector telescope.

Let me show why your argument does not hold at all, and why you are mistaken about this whole matter.



The next photograph, that you all know already, was taken from Cap Gris Nez cliffs, (about 50 meters), and shows absolutely the same thing, no curvature; therefore, on the Lake Ontario photographs, even if the photographs were taken, say from 100 meters altitude, it would not matter at all, you would clearly see the curvature of 50 meters, that is what I am trying to tell you. Rest assured, it was not taken from a helicopter, most probably from a boat, from a height of well under 50 meters. Then, the curvature would have been visible for all of us to see.



The photograph that I just showed to you, namely:



(from http://www.weatherandsky.com/Mirages/Mirages.html which contain even more photographs which completely prove the flat earth theory)

is a very sure and precise proof that on Lake Ontario, the surface of the lake is completely flat with no curvature whatsoever; from 53 km (curvature of 50 meters), there is absolutely no curvature to be observed.

On lake Michigan, froma distance of 128 km, Milwaukee can be clearly seen from Holland, see http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/052803/loc_052803001.shtml

Now on the strait of Gibraltar, it doesn't matter which height you go to, there is no curvature whatsoever, again:







And here is photograph taken from the island of Corfu, you can see the shorelines of Albania and Greece...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Mainland_seen_from_Corfu.jpg



There are plenty of other photographs taken on Lake Ontario, which show there is no curvature, among them:


http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1351778/2/istockphoto_1351778_toronto_skyline.jpg
http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/images/wallpapers/Toronto-Skyline.jpg
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/77/69/23446977.jpg


fhsy94, you will be the laughing stock of your friends and family when the full extent of your mediocre belief in the round earth hoax becomes apparent...






« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 12:01:42 AM by levee »

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Fikealox

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #93 on: February 15, 2008, 12:15:45 AM »
I wonder when you're going to get tired of this, Levee. I know I'm bored of you.

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sokarul

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #94 on: February 15, 2008, 12:36:43 AM »
Sokrates, that photograph of yours is a practical joke, don't you get it? Look carefully at the downtown Toronto buildings (Toronto Tower), it was taken from a much closer distance (I would say under 20 miles), and using Adobe Photoshop, was pasted with a image taken who knows where, at the bottom of a wave, or with a modified flat sea level surface photograph taken somewhere else.
Its called a telescopic lens. 

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The photographs taken on the site http://www.weatherandsky.com/Mirages/Mirages.html as you can clearly see, are profesionally made, the photographer even has access to a newtonian reflector telescope.
Did you even read the site?  The site is pictures of mirages.  Heres a quote from a site it links too.
Quote
10,000ft Mount Cerro La Encantada on the Baja California peninsula is frequently visible from Puerto Penasco 186km away just before sunset. The mountain looms to about four times its normal height making it visible over the horizon.
As you can see, on normal days the images are much different. 
Quote
Let me show why your argument does not hold at all, and why you are mistaken about this whole matter.



The next photograph, that you all know already, was taken from Cap Gris Nez cliffs, (about 50 meters), and shows absolutely the same thing, no curvature; therefore, on the Lake Ontario photographs, even if the photographs were taken, say from 100 meters altitude, it would not matter at all, you would clearly see the curvature of 50 meters, that is what I am trying to tell you. Rest assured, it was not taken from a helicopter, most probably from a boat, from a height of well under 50 meters. Then, the curvature would have been visible for all of us to see.

WHy can you not comprend that as you rise is elevation, the horizon gets further away?  50 meters in altitude would negate 50 m of curvature. 

T
Quote
he photograph that I just showed to you, namely:



(from http://www.weatherandsky.com/Mirages/Mirages.html which contain even more photographs which completely prove the flat earth theory)
AHd you read the site you would of seen that those are Mirages.  Its even in the link. 
Quote
is a very sure and precise proof that on Lake Ontario, the surface of the lake is completely flat with no curvature whatsoever; from 53 km (curvature of 50 meters), there is absolutely no curvature to be observed.
Its proof you have no idea what you are talking about. 

Quote
On lake Michigan, froma distance of 128 km, Milwaukee can be clearly seen from Holland, see http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/052803/loc_052803001.shtml
Read your link, it explains why it can be seen on certain days with the right conditions.  Normal days it cant be seen.  Read the link
Quote
Enjoying Memorial Day with some friends at his home on Lakeshore Drive near Riley Street, he looked out from his deck overlooking the lake and saw something he had never seen before -- Wisconsin.
According to you he should see it every day.  But he had never seen it before.  Thus no proof of flat earth but proof of physics.

Quote
Now on the strait of Gibraltar, it doesn't matter which height you go to, there is no curvature whatsoever, again:





The strait of Gibraltar is a whole 8 miles wide at its closes place.

Quote
And here is photograph taken from the island of Corfu, you can see the shorelines of Albania and Greece...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Mainland_seen_from_Corfu.jpg


Thats like 20 miles. 
Quote
There are plenty of other photographs taken on Lake Ontario, which show there is no curvature, among them:


http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1351778/2/istockphoto_1351778_toronto_skyline.jpg
http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/images/wallpapers/Toronto-Skyline.jpg
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/77/69/23446977.jpg
lol these pictures are from a mile away. 
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #95 on: February 15, 2008, 07:05:47 AM »
fartshy94 ('94 means this guy is 14 years old...just reached puberty), you have no business being here...I explained already what is going on so that even you can understand...so silence from you, amigo...

ROFLMAO. You know, there are plenty of other ways to put '94 in your username. For the record, '91, 16, and funnily enough, smarter than you will ever be....now take your own advice, mkay? That, or actually re-read, and think.

you're only 16?! damnit now I can't stalk you and have your babies
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sokarul

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #96 on: February 15, 2008, 07:07:56 AM »
fartshy94 ('94 means this guy is 14 years old...just reached puberty), you have no business being here...I explained already what is going on so that even you can understand...so silence from you, amigo...

ROFLMAO. You know, there are plenty of other ways to put '94 in your username. For the record, '91, 16, and funnily enough, smarter than you will ever be....now take your own advice, mkay? That, or actually re-read, and think.

you're only 16?! damnit now I can't stalk you and have your babies
I thought you were 12 years old as well. 
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #97 on: February 15, 2008, 07:09:15 AM »
fartshy94 ('94 means this guy is 14 years old...just reached puberty), you have no business being here...I explained already what is going on so that even you can understand...so silence from you, amigo...

ROFLMAO. You know, there are plenty of other ways to put '94 in your username. For the record, '91, 16, and funnily enough, smarter than you will ever be....now take your own advice, mkay? That, or actually re-read, and think.

you're only 16?! damnit now I can't stalk you and have your babies
I thought you were 12 years old as well. 

why?
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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sokarul

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #98 on: February 15, 2008, 07:11:06 AM »
fartshy94 ('94 means this guy is 14 years old...just reached puberty), you have no business being here...I explained already what is going on so that even you can understand...so silence from you, amigo...

ROFLMAO. You know, there are plenty of other ways to put '94 in your username. For the record, '91, 16, and funnily enough, smarter than you will ever be....now take your own advice, mkay? That, or actually re-read, and think.

you're only 16?! damnit now I can't stalk you and have your babies
I thought you were 12 years old as well. 

why?
I don't know, but I did think you were under 18.   
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #99 on: February 15, 2008, 07:13:58 AM »
fartshy94 ('94 means this guy is 14 years old...just reached puberty), you have no business being here...I explained already what is going on so that even you can understand...so silence from you, amigo...

ROFLMAO. You know, there are plenty of other ways to put '94 in your username. For the record, '91, 16, and funnily enough, smarter than you will ever be....now take your own advice, mkay? That, or actually re-read, and think.

you're only 16?! damnit now I can't stalk you and have your babies
I thought you were 12 years old as well. 

why?
I don't know, but I did think you were under 18.   

silly boy
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #100 on: February 15, 2008, 07:16:35 AM »
I thought you were all 7 1/2 years old!

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divito the truthist

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #101 on: February 15, 2008, 07:41:26 AM »
7 and 1/4.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
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objectively good

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travis

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #102 on: February 15, 2008, 07:43:06 AM »
fartshy94 ('94 means this guy is 14 years old...just reached puberty), you have no business being here...I explained already what is going on so that even you can understand...so silence from you, amigo...
I'm sorry, but I just have to point out that you called someone "fartshy" at the same time you were questioning their age/maturity level.  That makes less sense than a lot of the pictures that you've posted

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sokarul

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #103 on: February 15, 2008, 09:31:50 AM »
Levee will be on soon so I am bumping this to the end.   
Sokrates, that photograph of yours is a practical joke, don't you get it? Look carefully at the downtown Toronto buildings (Toronto Tower), it was taken from a much closer distance (I would say under 20 miles), and using Adobe Photoshop, was pasted with a image taken who knows where, at the bottom of a wave, or with a modified flat sea level surface photograph taken somewhere else.
Its called a telescopic lens. 

Quote
The photographs taken on the site http://www.weatherandsky.com/Mirages/Mirages.html as you can clearly see, are profesionally made, the photographer even has access to a newtonian reflector telescope.
Did you even read the site?  The site is pictures of mirages.  Heres a quote from a site it links too.
Quote
10,000ft Mount Cerro La Encantada on the Baja California peninsula is frequently visible from Puerto Penasco 186km away just before sunset. The mountain looms to about four times its normal height making it visible over the horizon.
As you can see, on normal days the images are much different. 
Quote
Let me show why your argument does not hold at all, and why you are mistaken about this whole matter.



The next photograph, that you all know already, was taken from Cap Gris Nez cliffs, (about 50 meters), and shows absolutely the same thing, no curvature; therefore, on the Lake Ontario photographs, even if the photographs were taken, say from 100 meters altitude, it would not matter at all, you would clearly see the curvature of 50 meters, that is what I am trying to tell you. Rest assured, it was not taken from a helicopter, most probably from a boat, from a height of well under 50 meters. Then, the curvature would have been visible for all of us to see.

WHy can you not comprend that as you rise is elevation, the horizon gets further away?  50 meters in altitude would negate 50 m of curvature. 

T
Quote
he photograph that I just showed to you, namely:



(from http://www.weatherandsky.com/Mirages/Mirages.html which contain even more photographs which completely prove the flat earth theory)
AHd you read the site you would of seen that those are Mirages.  Its even in the link. 
Quote
is a very sure and precise proof that on Lake Ontario, the surface of the lake is completely flat with no curvature whatsoever; from 53 km (curvature of 50 meters), there is absolutely no curvature to be observed.
Its proof you have no idea what you are talking about. 

Quote
On lake Michigan, froma distance of 128 km, Milwaukee can be clearly seen from Holland, see http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/052803/loc_052803001.shtml
Read your link, it explains why it can be seen on certain days with the right conditions.  Normal days it cant be seen.  Read the link
Quote
Enjoying Memorial Day with some friends at his home on Lakeshore Drive near Riley Street, he looked out from his deck overlooking the lake and saw something he had never seen before -- Wisconsin.
According to you he should see it every day.  But he had never seen it before.  Thus no proof of flat earth but proof of physics.

Quote
Now on the strait of Gibraltar, it doesn't matter which height you go to, there is no curvature whatsoever, again:





The strait of Gibraltar is a whole 8 miles wide at its closes place.

Quote
And here is photograph taken from the island of Corfu, you can see the shorelines of Albania and Greece...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Mainland_seen_from_Corfu.jpg


Thats like 20 miles. 
Quote
There are plenty of other photographs taken on Lake Ontario, which show there is no curvature, among them:


http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1351778/2/istockphoto_1351778_toronto_skyline.jpg
http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/images/wallpapers/Toronto-Skyline.jpg
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/77/69/23446977.jpg
lol these pictures are from a mile away. 

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Jim

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #104 on: February 15, 2008, 10:12:17 AM »
If I lie on the floor I can still see the end of my street, damn the earth must be flat.

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sandokhan

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #105 on: February 15, 2008, 11:36:14 AM »
fikealox, your response dodges all the questions you have about this debate, and to which you have no answers, and depend on others to explain them for you...you have a delusional tunnel vision...and have already exhausted your bag of tricks...

travis, in case you did not guess, it takes more than a 1-2 line message from you to impress anyone here...we are still waiting for your first post that has something relevant to say...

sokrates, there is no need to copy all the time someone's previous response, and quote it here in full...you should exercise your memory and remember the relevant points, and try to answer them here, without quoting...

As you saw, your photograph is a practical joke, but you fell for it...and embarrassed yourself again, thinking that you had something going...

A helicopter could not have been used because the first two photographs were taken from the same spot...we could not imagine it hovering there for 6 hours just to satisfy sokrates' functional neuron...

sokrates, the mirages refer to the reflection on the lake of the images of the photographs, you get it now? Not at all to the atmospheric reffraction argument you had in mind, and which I already addressed here...if you remember...you have the photographs of the mountains (150 km) distance, which I posted earlier, with a height of about 2,200 meters (about the same distance as in your quote), and they can be observed very well...with no atmospheric reffraction phenomenon there to be seen...atmospheric reffraction is a desperate attempt to use Alice in Wonderland physics to hide the very obvious: mountain peaks can be observed from far away, all over the world, because the earth is flat...

50 m in altitude does not negate at all 50 meters of curvature...you do not know what you are saying there...at a altitude of 50 meters, you'd barely see the top of the midpoint maximum curvature of 50 meters...that is the point I have been trying to tell you here for the past few messages...even if you ascend to say 100 meters, the curvature would still be very visible...get it now?

The distance between Corfu and Albania, offers a curvature (in case of a round earth) which still would be observable...as you can see there...the shoreline is visible...no curvature between Albania and Corfu...

(reflection on the lake, with no curvature)

Again, another shot of Toronto, with no curvature whatsoever...



The controversial, false and impossible theories and ideas belonging to Koppernigk, Galileo, Kepler and Newton were injected directly into the plastic, unformed minds of children, by means of seizing a country's educational system and turning it into a vehicle for indoctrination.

At first, the period 1687-1720, scientists who were not part of Rosenkreuzer society, vehemently opposed and criticized Newton's Principia, especially the impossible gravitational concept. The debate, as it was, came to an end about 1720, when most of the opponents died or retired. After 1720, the ideas of the London Royal Society became obligatory material to be taught in Universities, first in England, and then in France, Holland, Sweden, and the rest of Europe--thus an entire generation was captured, without any intellectual resistance.

Arthur Koestler's analysis of Galileo:

The most egregious fact about the pre-1641 Galileo is that at the time he was vigorously defending Copernicanism before the Holy Office in 1633, he knew even then the system didn't work and that he had no substantial proof for it. Since he rejected Kepler's elliptical orbits (although he used Kepler's material whenever it was to his advantage, and claimed it as his own), and refused any compromise with the Jesuits who were going over to Brahe's geocentric model, he was stuck with Copernicus' forty-eight epicycles, yet he advertised the model as one that bypassed the earlier mechanical problems 'with one single motion of the earth.' It is obvious that either Galileo was lying or he never read Copernicus' book, which is one of the reasons Koestler refers to Copernicus' work as 'The book that nobody read.' Calling his bluff, Robert Bellarmine stated quite clearly to Galileo that the Church would not even consider changing its position on the cosmos unless Galileo could provide proof of his claims. In one of his more audacious moves, Galileo tried to prove his case by a strange concoction of theory and conjecture on the nature of tidal action. Having rejected as 'occultish' Kepler's explanation that the combination of the sun's and moon's gravity caused the daily tides, Galileo, even knowing that his own explanation could not be physically possible, nevertheless, to save his prestige, tried to convince the Catholic prelates that tides were caused by the tilt of the earth's axis and the earth's monthly changes in orbital velocity. In addition, his theory addressed only a 24-hour tidal cycle, but even sailors knew, and reported to the common folk, that the tides alternated every 12 hours. Galileo then tried to explain the discrepancy by postulating that the ocean floor varied in depth. No wonder Koestler concludes his remarks with:

There can be no doubt that Galileo's theory of the tides was based on unconscious self-deception.. making the complexities of Copernicus appear deceptively simple, was part of a deliberate strategy, based on Galileo's contempt for the intelligence of his contemporaries. We have seen that scholars have always been prone to manias and obsessions, and inclined to cheat about details; but impostures like Galileo's are rare in the annals of science.

Again from Newton, the aether theory he knew to be correct:

In Newton's student notes on Descartes (c. 1668, a rather Aristotelian downward impulsion of gravity is compared with the centrifugal force of the (Cartesian) solar vortex:

Gravity is a force in a body impelling it to descend. Here, however, by descent is not only meant a motion towards the centre of the Earth but also towards any part or region... in this way if the conatus of the aether whirling about the Sun to recede from its centre be taken for gravity, the aether in receding from the Sun could be said to descend.

Newton, 1675:

So may the gravitating attraction of the earth be caused by the continual condensation of some other such like aetherial spirit, not of the main body of phlegmatic aether, but of something very thinly and subtilely diffused through it, perhaps of an unctious, or gummy tenacious and springy nature.

The notion came to him while observing how a lens on his table when rubbed would attract little bits of paper: ‘yet would the papers as they hung under the glass recieve some new motion, inclining this way or that way, according as I moved my finger.' He surmised that there must be some subtle ether causing this, which was a fair enough way of referring to static electricity, and that the ether of gravity was of a different kind.

As ‘nature is a perpetual circulatory worker', so this gravitational ether circulated, thereby pulling things downwards. It was a rather vitalistic and alchemical theory:

the vast body of the earth, which may be everywhere to the very centre in perpetual working, may continually condense so much of this spirit as to cause it from above to descend with great celerity for a supply.

Again, Newton, 1679:

A second gravity-ether hypothesis was proposed by Newton to Robert Boyle in February 1679, wherein ‘ye cause of gravity' was to be found, not as earlier in a flux of downward-rushing particles, but in a static gradient of texture in an aether, from grosser particles above to subtler ones below.38 The gradient extended to Earth's centre:

from ye top of ye air to ye surface of ye earth and again from ye surface of ye earth to ye centre thereof the aether is insensibly finer and finer.

Newton's Principia had one major problem, however. How could two objects attract each other across a vacuum? This was a theory like that of Aristotle's, but now a stone did not have just a 'natural tendency' to fall to Earth, far more incredibly it had a 'natural tendency' to be attracted to every other object in the universe. Descartes had a rational explanation for why stones fell to Earth and why planets orbited the Sun. Newton's theory, however, was based on some magic power of matter to be attracted to all other matter and this was anything but rational.






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sandokhan

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #106 on: February 15, 2008, 11:45:10 AM »
Here is a photograph made in England, right at the White Cliffs, Dover; no curvature whatsoever all the way to Cap Gris Nez...



http://stmargaretsphotodiary.blogspot.com/2007_01_07_archive.html

And, of course, White Cliffs Dover seen from Cap Gris Nez...



The cliffs on both sides of the English Channel can be seen entirely, cliff base/shoreline to top...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 11:53:43 AM by levee »

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sokarul

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #107 on: February 15, 2008, 01:55:09 PM »

sokrates, there is no need to copy all the time someone's previous response, and quote it here in full...you should exercise your memory and remember the relevant points, and try to answer
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them here, without quoting...
Its the proper way to debate.  You have ignored so many arguments you would of lost the debate long ago. 

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As you saw, your photograph is a practical joke, but you fell for it...and embarrassed yourself again, thinking that you had something going...
You mena to say you are scared of the photo. 

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A helicopter could not have been used because the first two photographs were taken from the same spot...we could not imagine it hovering there for 6 hours just to satisfy sokrates' functional neuron...
God forbid they make two trips.  Either way still not at water level. 
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sokrates, the mirages refer to the reflection on the lake of the images of the photographs, you get it now? Not at all to the atmospheric reffraction argument you had in mind, and which I already addressed here...if you remember...you have the photographs of the mountains (150 km) distance, which I posted earlier, with a height of about 2,200 meters (about the same distance as in your quote), and they can be observed very well...with no atmospheric reffraction phenomenon there to be seen...atmospheric reffraction is a desperate attempt to use Alice in Wonderland physics to hide the very obvious: mountain peaks can be observed from far away, all over the world, because the earth is flat...
You know you are going completely against the links you post. 

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50 m in altitude does not negate at all 50 meters of curvature...you do not know what you are saying there...at a altitude of 50 meters, you'd barely see the top of the midpoint maximum curvature of 50 meters...that is the point I have been trying to tell you here for the past few messages...even if you ascend to say 100 meters, the curvature would still be very visible...get it now?
As you move up the horizon gets further away.  Do you understand that?  For objuects in the front curvature will disapear.  The curvature will be present in the back ground.
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The distance between Corfu and Albania, offers a curvature (in case of a round earth) which still would be observable...as you can see there...the shoreline is visible...no curvature between Albania and Corfu...
You cannot say that the curvature is not there.  Small curvatures are hard to notice at shorter distances.  Why are you expecting to see a curvature like you would from space? 
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(reflection on the lake, with no curvature)

Again, another shot of Toronto, with no curvature whatsoever...

Once again you are going against your link and once againt he picture isn't even close to water level. 
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The controversial, false and impossible theories and ideas belonging to Koppernigk, Galileo, Kepler and Newton were injected directly into the plastic, unformed minds of children, by means of seizing a country's educational system and turning it into a vehicle for indoctrination.
Aluminum foil hat.  O wait aluminum doesn't exist right? 
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At first, the period 1687-1720, scientists who were not part of Rosenkreuzer society, vehemently opposed and criticized Newton's Principia, especially the impossible gravitational concept. The debate, as it was, came to an end about 1720, when most of the opponents died or retired. After 1720, the ideas of the London Royal Society became obligatory material to be taught in Universities, first in England, and then in France, Holland, Sweden, and the rest of Europe--thus an entire generation was captured, without any intellectual resistance.
There are expierments that prove the earth is round.  The well experiment is one of them. 
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Arthur Koestler's analysis of Galileo:

The most egregious fact about the pre-1641 Galileo is that at the time he was vigorously defending Copernicanism before the Holy Office in 1633, he knew even then the system didn't work and that he had no substantial proof for it. Since he rejected Kepler's elliptical orbits (although he used Kepler's material whenever it was to his advantage, and claimed it as his own), and refused any compromise with the Jesuits who were going over to Brahe's geocentric model, he was stuck with Copernicus' forty-eight epicycles, yet he advertised the model as one that bypassed the earlier mechanical problems 'with one single motion of the earth.' It is obvious that either Galileo was lying or he never read Copernicus' book, which is one of the reasons Koestler refers to Copernicus' work as 'The book that nobody read.' Calling his bluff, Robert Bellarmine stated quite clearly to Galileo that the Church would not even consider changing its position on the cosmos unless Galileo could provide proof of his claims. In one of his more audacious moves, Galileo tried to prove his case by a strange concoction of theory and conjecture on the nature of tidal action. Having rejected as 'occultish' Kepler's explanation that the combination of the sun's and moon's gravity caused the daily tides, Galileo, even knowing that his own explanation could not be physically possible, nevertheless, to save his prestige, tried to convince the Catholic prelates that tides were caused by the tilt of the earth's axis and the earth's monthly changes in orbital velocity. In addition, his theory addressed only a 24-hour tidal cycle, but even sailors knew, and reported to the common folk, that the tides alternated every 12 hours. Galileo then tried to explain the discrepancy by postulating that the ocean floor varied in depth. No wonder Koestler concludes his remarks with:
you typed all this to talk about tides?  Sailors have tidal charts that tell them the tides.  These of course use the RE model and of course they work. 

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There can be no doubt that Galileo's theory of the tides was based on unconscious self-deception.. making the complexities of Copernicus appear deceptively simple, was part of a deliberate strategy, based on Galileo's contempt for the intelligence of his contemporaries. We have seen that scholars have always been prone to manias and obsessions, and inclined to cheat about details; but impostures like Galileo's are rare in the annals of science.
ok dude.
A
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gain from Newton, the aether theory he knew to be correct:

In Newton's student notes on Descartes (c. 1668, a rather Aristotelian downward impulsion of gravity is compared with the centrifugal force of the (Cartesian) solar vortex:

Gravity is a force in a body impelling it to descend. Here, however, by descent is not only meant a motion towards the centre of the Earth but also towards any part or region... in this way if the conatus of the aether whirling about the Sun to recede from its centre be taken for gravity, the aether in receding from the Sun could be said to descend.
The aether that has still never been found. 
Newton, 1675:

So may the gravitating attraction of the earth be caused by the continual condensation of some other such like aetherial spirit, not of the main body of phlegmatic aether, but of something very thinly and subtilely diffused through it, perhaps of an unctious, or gummy tenacious and springy nature.

The notion came to him while observing how a lens on his table when rubbed would attract little bits of paper: ‘yet would the papers as they hung under the glass recieve some new motion, inclining this way or that way, according as I moved my finger.' He surmised that there must be some subtle ether causing this, which was a fair enough way of referring to static electricity, and that the ether of gravity was of a different kind.
He has since been proven wrong.  We know where gravitation comes from. 

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As ‘nature is a perpetual circulatory worker', so this gravitational ether circulated, thereby pulling things downwards. It was a rather vitalistic and alchemical theory:

the vast body of the earth, which may be everywhere to the very centre in perpetual working, may continually condense so much of this spirit as to cause it from above to descend with great celerity for a supply.
No evidence what so ever. 
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gain, Newton, 1679:

A second gravity-ether hypothesis was proposed by Newton to Robert Boyle in February 1679, wherein ‘ye cause of gravity' was to be found, not as earlier in a flux of downward-rushing particles, but in a static gradient of texture in an aether, from grosser particles above to subtler ones below.38 The gradient extended to Earth's centre:

from ye top of ye air to ye surface of ye earth and again from ye surface of ye earth to ye centre thereof the aether is insensibly finer and finer.

Newton's Principia had one major problem, however. How could two objects attract each other across a vacuum? This was a theory like that of Aristotle's, but now a stone did not have just a 'natural tendency' to fall to Earth, far more incredibly it had a 'natural tendency' to be attracted to every other object in the universe. Descartes had a rational explanation for why stones fell to Earth and why planets orbited the Sun. Newton's theory, however, was based on some magic power of matter to be attracted to all other matter and this was anything but rational.



Its 2008, not 1679.  You know they used to think a pile of rags could spawn rats. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Michamus

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #108 on: February 15, 2008, 03:38:46 PM »
Alright Levee. I will completely forsake all my personal experiments that prove a RE for two simple proofs from you. I want you to place a 50m tall stick on both sides of the area you will be taking your photo. Then I want you to back up to around 40km and see how well you can see that VERY tiny 50m tall stick. Next I would like for you to show me a picture of a ship floating around 60km away without it's base concealed below the horizon.

As another point... These photos are from the Concorde which cruises around an altitude of 40,000 ft. Look how subtle the curvature is at this altitude.


Now look at this photo from a boat. You can see an obvious curvature of the Earth.


As a parting word, I would recommend you go outside, look up at the actual sun. Then drive to the ocean, rent a power boat. Take your boat 50miles out and see what the horizon looks like. Until then, stop arguing a hypothesis in which anyone can simply prove by doing what I just suggested.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 03:51:28 PM by Michamus »

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Michamus

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2008, 04:02:07 PM »
Wey Sok, you lack hundreds of books and thousand of links to even understand what's going on in physics...I think that you are studying this subject, physics, against your true wish or calling...

You have just disqualified yourself from any serious talk here...or discussions...if anybody else is available to talk to these guys, michemus and sok, they are welcome...there's nothing more that I can do...

Mr. Sok, all those links prove very well that you are just the kind of scientist which stands with the toilet paper roll in his hands, next to Einstein, ready to offer him another sheet, if he needs it.

You have no idea what you are studying, or what you are posting here, and truly, I am sorry to tell you all this, because I would like to respect each and every one of you.

You have not been able to address even one of the issues dealt with in the links which totally destroy the Einstein myth you are so fond of (I think actually that you will have great success in the physics industry; you will be able to make a good living by just agreeing all the time with the official propaganda; but you will never gain any respect).

Kirlian photography (electronography) proves to you that the biomagnetic field which surrounds our bodies, has nothing to do with gravity and is not composed of gravitons.

Ball lightning is a very real phenomenon; evidenced clearly by Tesla, and used heavily by the same government which in public will worship Einstein, to fool people like you.

Read carefully what each link has to say; do not stop at just declarations about antimatter, about which you actually know very little; antimatter are not the positrons and antiprotons, antimatter is the aura/ether/field that surrouds each and every living thing; research the difference between electrons/positrons and how this applies to our discussion, the work done by N. Kozarev regarding levogire/dextrogire aminoacids, and living matter and how it relates to positrons.

Here you show your shortcomings again; Poincare was the greatest mathematician alive at the end of the 19th century and at the beginning of the 20th (to be outdone only by S. Ramanujan, the Hindu genius); he knew very well that Einstein's work was completely false and a fraud.

Sok, you have no business being here, discussing physics; your declarations of the kind "e/m travels through vacuum" disqualify you from any serious talk you might have with anybody on this subject. Tesla went all the way to Germany to show Hertz the mistakes he made in his experiments; to show him that e/m waves travelling in vacuum is a nonsensical concept; all waves travel through the ether; read Tesla's journal again and the books which prove the errors in Einstein's thinking.


Michemus, study carefully the 5 sun paradoxes; read again and again the Impossibility of the Big Bang article; and you will be able to distinguish between true and false satellite photography concerning the sun's appearance. Study plasma physics (plasma being an intermediate state of matter between gas and aether); and you will be able to answer your questions yourself re: the radiation emitted by the sun. I just explained to you that there is no nuclear fusion going on inside the sun's core, H. Bethe was thrown out of Germany for incompetence, and was no scientist at all; how many hours have you studied the sun neutrino paradox or the coronal heating paradox? Study carefully the Hiroshima affair, and you will discover the survivors' accounts, which tell clearly that it was no "nuclear" explosion; the mushroom cloud was filmed in the New Mexico desert, while the cities themselves were bombed with liquid gas, just like in Dresden and Tokyo.

The photographs I posted prove to you, once and for all, that the Earth is completely flat over the strait of Gibraltar, between England and France, and between California and the S. Catalina/S. Cruz islands.

This is all well and good. You still have not accounted for how all the destructive forces emitted from the Sun (Solar flares 3x the diameter of the Sun, X-Rays, UV Rays, Gamma Rays) somehow do not mess our entire earth up? The solar flares alone (not to mention the Magnetic fields they contain) would constantly be striking our surface. Their magnetic fields would makes electrical conduits impossible. Another point that needs consideration is sunspots. We can see sunspots disappear upon rotation and reappear on the other side, only to move across the surface again and repeat the process.

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sandokhan

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #110 on: February 16, 2008, 05:20:57 AM »
sokarul, I think it is time that our discussion on this subject (photographic evidence/flat earth debate) came to an end.

Your involuntary thread bumping served a very good purpose: to let us all know that there is absolutely no curvature over the Lake Ontario (a distance of 53 km); the photographs clearly were made from a height of (well) under 50 meters (150 feet)...I think you are 1/10000th of this forum.

Your round earth wet dreams are very nice, but certainly you are no defender of the heliocentric system, nor a lawyer for Itzhak Newton.

I appreciate, though, your presence here, and wish you much success in all your endeavours...

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michemus, a very good message from you...congratulations...with the exception of the photographs you posted which mean absolutely nothing and add nothing to our debate; they cannot be used for either flat earth or round earth theory discussions, there is no subtle curvature there, as you say...; if you like photography, you have here at your disposal all the evidence you need to soundly prove the flat earth theory and to show that there is absolute no curvature at the Earth's surface over the strait of Gibraltar, English Channel, Lake Ontario and over the distance between S. Catalina/S. Cruz islands and California.

What is the point about the solar flares? Look closely at the first message posted here; the real size of the Sun and of the planets/Iss/Atlantis; research carefully the five solar paradoxes, one of them (solid sun surface paradox) will show you that the Sun is covered with a plasma layer...also the fact that between the Sun and the Earth we have the heavenly dome which actually protects us from all that radiation...also, I included some details which show what the real energy source of the Sun is, and that this source cannot be nuclear or electric at all, as evidenced by the sun neutrino paradox and the sun coronal heating paradox...

RE: sunspots...well, here you hit the jackpot because they prove that the Sun cannot have a spherical shape at all:

(from I. Velikovsky's Cosmos without Gravitation):

11. The atmospheric pressure of the sun, instead of being 27.47 times greater than the atmospheric pressure of the earth (as expected because of the gravitational pull of the large solar mass), is much smaller: the pressure there varies according to the layers of the atmosphere from one-tenth to one-thousandth of the barometric pressure on the earth; at the base of the reversing layer the pressure is 0.005 of the atmospheric pressure at sea level on the earth; in the sunspots, the pressure drops to one ten-thousandth of the pressure on the earth.

The pressure of light is sometimes referred to as to explain the low atmospheric pressure on the sun. At the surface of the sun, the pressure of light must be 2.75 milligrams per square centimeter; a cubic centimeter of one gram weight at the surface of the earth would weigh 27.47 grams at the surface of the sun. Thus the attraction by the solar mass is 10,000 times greater than the repulsion of the solar light. Recourse is taken to the supposition that if the pull and the pressure are calculated for very small masses, the pressure exceeds the pull, one acting in proportion to the surface, the other in proportion to the volume. But if this is so, why is the lowest pressure of the solar atmosphere observed over the sunspots where the light pressure is least?

12. Because of its swift rotation, the gaseous sun should have the latitudinal axis greater than the longitudinal, but it does not have it. The sun is one million times larger than the earth, and its day is but twenty-six times longer than the terrestrial day; the swiftness of its rotation at its equator is over 125 km. per minute; at the poles, the velocity approaches zero. Yet the solar disk is not oval but round: the majority of observers even find a small excess in the longitudinal axis of the sun.(16) The planets act in the same manner as the rotation of the sun, imposing a latitudinal pull on the luminary.

Gravitation that acts in all directions equally leaves unexplained the spherical shape of the sun. As we saw in the preceding section, the gases of the solar atmosphere are not under a strong pressure, but under a very weak one. Therefore, the computation, according to which the ellipsoidity of the sun, that is lacking, should be slight, is not correct either. Since the gases are under a very low gravitational pressure, the centrifugal force of rotation must have formed quite a flat sun.

Near the polar regions of the sun, streamers of the corona are observed, which prolong still more the axial length of the sun.

13. If planets and satellites were once molten masses, as cosmological theories assume, they would not have been able to obtain a spherical form, especially those which do not rotate, as Mercury or the moon (with respect to its primary).

Also:

The area of land in the northern hemisphere of the earth is to the area of land in the southern hemisphere as three is to one. The mean weight of the land is two and three-quarter times heavier than that of water; assuming the depth of the seas in both hemispheres to be equal, the northern hemisphere up to sea level is heavier than the southern hemisphere, if judged by sea and land distribution; the earth masses above sea level are additional heavy loads. But this unequal distribution of masses does not affect the position of the earth, as it does not place the northern hemisphere with its face to the sun. A “dead force” like gravitation could not keep the unequally loaded earth in equilibrium. Also, the seasonal distribution of ice and snow, shifting in a distillation process from one hemisphere to the other, should interfere with the equilibrium of the earth, but fails to do so.

Michemus, please read also http://club.neogen.ro/religia/imposibilitatea-teoriei-big-bang-string-m-theory/186448/1 the impossibility of the big bang/string theory scenarios to see how from the start no stars/galaxies could have been formed in the first place, much information about the impossible scenario of a heliocentric planetary system...

And remember the five solar paradoxes...if I have the time I will describe them here...starting with the faint young sun paradox...


An extraordinary documentary for you: MYSTERIES OF THE SACRED UNIVERSE, it describes the theory of the flat earth as evidenced by Vedic Cosmology, it includes many wonderful diagrams/graphics which will be of help; the author, R. Thompson, however, superimposes his heliocentric views on the geocentric theory, but if we ignore this, we have at our disposal a very good source of information...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-538297875584368796&q=mysteries+of+the+sacred+universe&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

(www.video.google.com, search mysteries of the sacred universe)


There are many other points and issues that we have not been addressing here...the fact the presence of iron in the shell or the migration of heavy metals (which, if you read the impossibility of the big bang article, you will see that they could not have been formed at all) from the core to the shell has not been sufficiently explained. For these metals to have left the core, they must have been ejected by explosions, and in order to remain spread through the crust, the explosions must have ben followeed immediately by cooling (I. Velikovsky, Worlds in Collision, which I urge all of you to read right away, especially the chapters: In an immense Universe; The sun ages; The world ages; Origin of Comets; The quarters of the world displaced; The fifty-two year period; Poles uprooted; The Water clock; Disarranged months; Year of 360 days; Years of 10 months; more details in the next three paragraphs)...

If, in the beginning, the planet was a hot conglomerate of elements, as the nebular as well as the tidal theories assume, then the iron of the globe should have become oxidized and combined with all available oxygen. But for some unknown reason this did not happen; thus the presence of oxygen in the terrestrial atmosphere is unexplained.

The velocity of the axial rotation of the sun at the time the planetary system was built could not have been sufficient to enable bands of matter to break away; but even if they had broken away, they would not have balled into globes.
Also the origin of the salt in the oceans poses a very interesting problem for the heliocentric system, see:

http://www.varchive.org/itb/ecocean.htm

Also, if you have the time, read Earth in Upheaval by I. Velikovsky.

What Velikovsky does in his books is to totally destroy and demolish the Newtonian/Keplerian heliocentrical system, presenting thousand of references and many proofs which show that the Earth, in the heliocentric version, stopped from rotating around its own axis/orbiting the Sun, several times in the past several thousand years...

If we have the time, we will go into the unimaginable errors committed by Zecharia Sitchin (The 12th Planet), who interpreted in the wrongest possible manner the Enuma Elish, The Sumerian Creation Epic.

Two of the very best sites on past planetary catastrophism:

http://www.pibburns.com/catastro/othercat.htm
http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/tilmari

The very best proofs that the Earth could not possibly cause the lunar eclipse were offered by Rowbotham in http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za29.htm (just two mistakes there...the fact that he assumes it is the Moon which causes the solar eclipse and the fact that the Moon can and does reflect sunlight, which he denies apparently...).

What then are the two heavenly bodies which do cause the solar/lunar eclipse? To answer this question, for those interested, will take you into the most extraordinary search in the past, to reconstruct what happened 5.800 years ago (the first planetary catastrophy), 4.250 years ago (the Great Flood), 3.600 years ago (the Exodus), and thus be able to know exactly what is in store for us given that we are so near to the end of the Fifth Epoch (there is no global warming;  the weather is changing because we are nearing the end of a world age).

Research the link between Tiamat/Nibiru, Rahu/Ketu, Fenrir/Hati/Skoll and the mysterious disappearance from the sky of two stars, 5.800 years ago, Sirius B and Sirius C (the records, including the Dogon tribe legends, explain clearly that the remains of the collision of Sirius B and Jupiter are what now orbit Sirius A; the star itself became one of our planets).










« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 06:51:05 AM by levee »

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sandokhan

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #111 on: February 16, 2008, 05:58:26 AM »
Now, to prove again that the Earth cannot possibly rotate around its own axis (the cloud trajectory and a new, extremely interesting argument):

The cloud trajectory argument which proves the Earth does not rotate around its own axis (from Galileo Was Wrong, to satisfy TheEngineer's requirements...):


If we look more closely at the overall relationship of the Earth to the atmosphere (in addition to the Coriolis forces), the air patterns we see on the Earth today do not correspond to a rotating Earth. They correspond to a fixed Earth.

Atmospheric circulation:

The conventional model

Global air circulation can be explained in a two-step model. The first starts with three simplifying assumptions:

The Earth is not rotating in space.
The Earth’s surface is composed of similar materials.
Solar heating and loss of infrared radiation cause a temperature gradient of hot air at the equator and cold air at the poles, forcing warm air away from the equator toward the poles.

The velocity should exponentially increase with altitude at the equator from 0 to 1054 mph. Based on the conventional Hadley cycle and Coriolis force model:

If there is a jet stream anywhere it should be east-to-west, at the equator, but it is not.
There is a Northern hemisphere mid-latitude west-to-east jet stream, but that is the wrong location and the wrong direction.
There is a Southern high-latitude east-to-west jet stream, which is the wrong location.
The highest steady winds at altitude anywhere seem to be about 50 knots, way below the rotational predictions.
Hence, it seems that the Earth is not rotating, but variable winds are caused by thermal and pressure gradients. Rotation only seems to be discussed in theory regarding the secondary Coriolis side effect, not the main feature, that is, the transition from an accelerated to an inertial frame. Remember, the Coriolis force is not unique to a rotating Earth; the same inertial forces would be present if the universe rotated around an immobile Earth. Mach’s principle is still in effect, as always. But how can inertial winds of 1054 mph not play a significant role in a predictive model of terrestrial air patterns? It seems that no matter which choice for the atmosphere one takes – that it turns with or does not turn with the Earth – it defies either logic or observation.

If we are on a rotating Earth with non-viscous air subject only to gravity (i.e., the atmosphere is not coupled or bound by any forces to turn with the Earth), then we would experience tremendous wind problems, in which the spinning Earth encounters the full weight of the atmosphere. (NB: The atmosphere weighs more than 4 million billion tons.) The minor thermal differences between poles and equator would be wiped out by the blast of west-to-east air, that is, the collision of free air and the spinning Earth.

Conversely, if we are on a rotating Earth and somehow this atmosphere is turning with us, what is the coupling mechanism that enables it to do so? It must have some link to provide the torque to continue the coordinated rotation of the Earth with its wrapper of air. Would not a co-turning atmosphere and Earth mean nothing else could move the air? Otherwise, is not the air was acting as a solid, not a gas? No one has proposed a mechanism for this connection of the supposedly spinning Earth to the supposedly spinning air that is so strong that the atmosphere is forced to spin along with Earth, though otherwise it is free to move anywhere that gravity permits! We easily demonstrate the air’s freedom every time we walk through it or breathe it. Yet, we are told, the air obediently follows the Earth as it twirls through the heavens.


For the second argument, we should remember that an UFO is completely screened from any external physical forces (magnetic, electric, "gravitational" [the real source, the etheric pressure, and not the practical joke invented by Newton which he denied often in private letters]); making U-turns and 90 degree turns which defy the laws of mechanics (copied by Newton from Vedic sutras, extraordinary proofs in this regard); then, given that the Earth, as we are told, is orbiting the Sun at approximately 19 miles a second (29 km/s), that is 100,000 km/hr, an UFO would immediately disappear before our eyes and would have a hard time just catching up, at 100,000 km/hr speed, with the Earth; but, this does not happen at all, even though the flying saucer is completely screened from the pressure gravitation that we are all subjected to, meaning that the Earth is stationary and not rotating around its own axis. The best proofs of the UFO' existence has been offerred by Vladimir Terziski, with video material, in many conferences...

Now, for the best sites/information re: UFOs...


http://www.eyepod.org/Nazi-Disc-Photos.html

http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/preveningl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL1ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL2ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL3ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL4ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL5ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL6ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL8ingl.htm
(an unusual site re: UFO matter)

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/HTMLdosya1/NaziUFOTechnology.htm

http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/hitler,nazis%20and%20the%20occult.htm

One of the most extraordinary sites:

http://missilegate.com/rfz/




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Michamus

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #112 on: February 16, 2008, 12:00:37 PM »
For some time after it was accepted that planets (including Earth) circle the Sun, there was no direct proof that it is Earth that moves, and not the Sun.

Ancient astronomer Aristarchus thought that Earth goes around the Sun since he discovered that the Sun is much bigger than Earth. Copernicus (who is usually credited with the idea that planets go around the Sun) thought that Solar system centered on the Sun is more logical and beautiful, but had no definite proof. Kepler discovered that laws governing of orbits become much more simple if the Sun is in their center. Newton has shown that this is caused by the universal law of gravity. If gravity works, Earth and other planets have to go around the Sun, because it is much heavier.

There was no straightforward proof for the motion of Earth until 1725 when James Bradley discovered stellar aberration. This is (apparent) yearly change in positions of all stars in the sky due to Earth's own motion. Aberration arises due to adding up of the speed of light coming from the star and Earth's own speed. This is a very complex phenomenon and its description requires some math.

Another, much simpler, consequence of Earth's motion is stellar parallax. If Earth changes its position relative to the stars, than the stars should appear to change position in the course of the year.

A common experiment illustrating parallax is just looking at a close object (a finger, a pencil etc) with one eye at the time. When you switch from one to the other eye, the object will appear to move against the background. Closer the object is to your eyes, more pronounced the effect is.

Parallax should not be confused with aberration: parallax arises from the change of Earth's position and depends on the distance to the star, while aberration is caused by Earth's great speed and does not depend on how far the star is.

Parallax of a star was first measured by Bessel in 1838. It was not measured before because this change of star's apparent position is very small (the stars are very far from us). This was a very important discovery because Aristotle himself mentioned the lack of observable stellar parallax as the proof that the Earth is not moving (he didn't have a telescope and didn't know that the stars are so distant).

A third discovery proving Earth's motion was that of Doppler effect. Wavelength of the light that we receive from objects moving relative to us becomes a little shorter (i.e. bluer) when we approach the source and becomes longer (i.e. redder) when we move away from the source. When Earth moves toward a star, the star will appear slightly bluer (only high-tech instruments can measure this) while it will appear redder when Earth is on the other side of the orbit and moves in the opposite direction. This effect proves that Earth has a velocity relative to the stars, similar to aberration.

So, aberration (slight change in stellar positions due to Earth's speed), parallax (slight change in stellar positions due to Earth's changing position) and Doppler effect (slight change in color of stars due to Earth's speed) all prove that Earth is moving around the Sun, and not the other way round.

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sokarul

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #113 on: February 16, 2008, 02:22:54 PM »
Levee you are an idiot.  You still cannot comprehend how your own links proved you wrong and now you are talking about UFOs. 

Your arguments are worthless.  They are of narcberry quality.  I will pick them apart when I feel like it. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #114 on: February 16, 2008, 02:41:43 PM »
Levee you are an idiot.
I could have sworn I instructed you to stop posting in this manner.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Fikealox

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #115 on: February 17, 2008, 05:35:24 AM »
You mean you're not going to post anymore, Levee?

Thank you, Sokarul, you've done good work :D

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sandokhan

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #116 on: February 17, 2008, 05:45:13 AM »
michamus, we all appreciate your message...but it does not include the truth...and it might amount to just a high-school bull session...

As I have explained already, there were only 12 people in the ancient world who presented in public a heliocentric planetary version; Aristarchus was a disciple of Pythagoras, and was part of the cult dedicated to Sun worship...and was no astronomer at all...

A wonderful quote for you...

Now today everybody 'just knows' that the earth goes round the sun (heliocentrism). Yet
all attempts to show that the earth is moving have failed: 'We cannot feel our motion through
space; nor has any experiment ever proved that the earth actually is in motion.' Invoked
'proofs' such as the phenomenon of the earth's obliqueness (slight flattening at the poles), the
Doppler effect (the apparent change in frequency of light as it moves towards or away from
the observer), the Sagnac effect (stellar aberration and parallax), nutation, Herschel's star
streaming, the Coriolis forces (the cause of water tending to drain clockwise in the northern
hemisphere, anti-clockwise in the southern), and Foucault's pendulum ... are in fact more
easily explained by the entire universe rotating about the earth once a day. And the toil of
thousands of exasperated researchers ... all conclusively failed to show any rotational
movement whatsoever. The result showed that the earth is absolutely stationary, and that it is
the rest of the universe that is doing the moving. 'Unthinkable!' to the bamboozled modern
mind, 'with undesirable philosophical implications'; evolution is more unthinkable, yet most
of mankind hold by it -- 'proclaim a lie again and again and in due course all people will
believe you' (the late unlamented Goebbels).
All the research confirms or favours the Biblical Tychonic schema, with all the planets of
the solar system (except the earth, which is not a planet) in epicycular retinue about the sun ...

About the stellar parallax...

http://www.geocentricuniverse.com/page26.htm

Missing Doppler effect...

http://padrak.com/ine/NEN_6_10_9.html

michemus, did you read the impossibility of the big bang/string theory article? How can you come here and comment about astronomy without understanding that no galaxies/stars could have formed in the first place? Read that article (I gave you the link)...without which all discussions about astrophysics/cosmogony are futile...

Find out what the faint young sun paradox is all about; then come here and comment on heliocosmology...

Here are a few more sites about Hubble's errors (there are other sites, much more informative, but I will not include them here):

http://www.ldolphin.org/univ-age.html
http://www.ldolphin.org/staticu.html

An extraordinary article about the Doppler effect errors:

http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/BIGBANG/Bigbang.html

And here is another superb analysis of the Doppler effect errors:

http://itis.volta.alessandria.it/episteme/ep3-17.htm

Also, an essay from an unusual point of view, on this subject:

http://www.whcs.org.uk/essays%20(1).htm




« Last Edit: February 17, 2008, 06:29:07 AM by levee »

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sandokhan

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #117 on: February 17, 2008, 06:11:43 AM »
fikealox, you do not understand...I am not paid to post information here...and I do not have the time to stop and take care of clowns like sokarul all the time...my time on the net is limited...and I have already dedicated quite a lot of it here, on this forum, in order to provide the best information which will help you to make a better decision in your flat earth/round earth debate...it is not my forum...if the flatearthsociety moderators do not care that an imbecile like this sokarul can post garbage wherever he chooses, then it is not my business to try to correct (the time factor) these things here...I have other things to do...

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #118 on: February 17, 2008, 08:51:30 AM »
Your arguments are worthless.  They are of narcberry quality.  I will pick them apart when I feel like it. 

SURVEY SAYS: SOKARUL IS A DUMBFUCK!!!

Only a dumbfuck like sokarul can interpret a practical joke photograph as evidence in his favor.



TheEngineer, you should have immediately removed that comment from this imbecile, since he has shown he has nothing to say and is wasting everybody's time here.

I say this because my next message would have included the real flat earth map (the global Piri Reis map), how Columbus/Magellan/Cabot had access to exact flat earth maps which took them to their desired destination, and many other arguments; now, you will have to ask so(fuc)karul to provide this information for all of you...

And your post is any better? I'd much rather have Sokarul posting than you because all you do is spout a load of shit that we know you don't actually believe but you seem to get some kick out of it. So all in all you're just another Tom Bishop and one is enough for any forum so piss off.
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
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Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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sokarul

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Re: Venus/Mercury/Iss-Atlantis Sun Transit - True distance Earth - Sun
« Reply #119 on: February 17, 2008, 09:18:10 AM »
Now, to prove again that the Earth cannot possibly rotate around its own axis (the cloud trajectory and a new, extremely interesting argument):

The cloud trajectory argument which proves the Earth does not rotate around its own axis (from Galileo Was Wrong, to satisfy TheEngineer's requirements...):
The clouds do not prove anything. 


Quote
If we look more closely at the overall relationship of the Earth to the atmosphere (in addition to the Coriolis forces), the air patterns we see on the Earth today do not correspond to a rotating Earth. They correspond to a fixed Earth.
Air patterns never came from the rotating earth.  Where did you even come up with that? 

Atmospheric circulation:

The conventional model

Global air circulation can be explained in a two-step model. The first starts with three simplifying assumptions:

Quote
The Earth is not rotating in space.
The Earth’s surface is composed of similar materials.
Solar heating and loss of infrared radiation cause a temperature gradient of hot air at the equator and cold air at the poles, forcing warm air away from the equator toward the poles.
I have no idea what you are trying to explain.  Are you trying to say what the re says or are you trying to go against what you believe? 

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The velocity should exponentially increase with altitude at the equator from 0 to 1054 mph. Based on the conventional Hadley cycle and Coriolis force model:

If there is a jet stream anywhere it should be east-to-west, at the equator, but it is not.
There is a Northern hemisphere mid-latitude west-to-east jet stream, but that is the wrong location and the wrong direction.
There is a Southern high-latitude east-to-west jet stream, which is the wrong location.
The highest steady winds at altitude anywhere seem to be about 50 knots, way below the rotational predictions.
Hence, it seems that the Earth is not rotating, but variable winds are caused by thermal and pressure gradients. Rotation only seems to be discussed in theory regarding the secondary Coriolis side effect, not the main feature, that is, the transition from an accelerated to an inertial frame. Remember, the Coriolis force is not unique to a rotating Earth; the same inertial forces would be present if the universe rotated around an immobile Earth. Mach’s principle is still in effect, as always. But how can inertial winds of 1054 mph not play a significant role in a predictive model of terrestrial air patterns? It seems that no matter which choice for the atmosphere one takes – that it turns with or does not turn with the Earth – it defies either logic or observation.
Once again, no one claimed the jet stream came from a rotating earth. 

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If we are on a rotating Earth with non-viscous air subject only to gravity (i.e., the atmosphere is not coupled or bound by any forces to turn with the Earth), then we would experience tremendous wind problems, in which the spinning Earth encounters the full weight of the atmosphere. (NB: The atmosphere weighs more than 4 million billion tons.) The minor thermal differences between poles and equator would be wiped out by the blast of west-to-east air, that is, the collision of free air and the spinning Earth.
Wrong.  Air is more than capable of matching the rotation of the earth.   

Quote
Conversely, if we are on a rotating Earth and somehow this atmosphere is turning with us, what is the coupling mechanism that enables it to do so? It must have some link to provide the torque to continue the coordinated rotation of the Earth with its wrapper of air. Would not a co-turning atmosphere and Earth mean nothing else could move the air? Otherwise, is not the air was acting as a solid, not a gas? No one has proposed a mechanism for this connection of the supposedly spinning Earth to the supposedly spinning air that is so strong that the atmosphere is forced to spin along with Earth, though otherwise it is free to move anywhere that gravity permits! We easily demonstrate the air’s freedom every time we walk through it or breathe it. Yet, we are told, the air obediently follows the Earth as it twirls through the heavens.
Physics is the coupling mechanism.  I suggest you check it out. 


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For the second argument, we should remember that an UFO is completely screened from any external physical forces (magnetic, electric, "gravitational" [the real source, the etheric pressure, and not the practical joke invented by Newton which he denied often in private letters]); making U-turns and 90 degree turns which defy the laws of mechanics (copied by Newton from Vedic sutras, extraordinary proofs in this regard); then, given that the Earth, as we are told, is orbiting the Sun at approximately 19 miles a second (29 km/s), that is 100,000 km/hr, an UFO would immediately disappear before our eyes and would have a hard time just catching up, at 100,000 km/hr speed, with the Earth; but, this does not happen at all, even though the flying saucer is completely screened from the pressure gravitation that we are all subjected to, meaning that the Earth is stationary and not rotating around its own axis. The best proofs of the UFO' existence has been offerred by Vladimir Terziski, with video material, in many conferences...
The FE states that the earth is traveling at .999999999999c.  How could a UFO catch that if it can't even catch 100,000 km/hr?

Quote
Now, for the best sites/information re: UFOs...


http://www.eyepod.org/Nazi-Disc-Photos.html

http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/preveningl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL1ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL2ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL3ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL4ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL5ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL6ingl.htm
http://ovni.do.sapo.pt/principal/antartica/antarct_ingl/VRIL8ingl.htm
(an unusual site re: UFO matter)
hahahaha

Quote
http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/HTMLdosya1/NaziUFOTechnology.htm

http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/hitler,nazis%20and%20the%20occult.htm

One of the most extraordinary sites:

http://missilegate.com/rfz/
Had those worked, they would of won the war. 



[/quote]
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 01:16:04 PM by sokarul »
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.