Parallel Universes

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Parallel Universes
« on: February 02, 2008, 05:52:04 AM »
Discuss.
Don't be  hatin'.  Be appreciatin'.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2008, 06:44:37 AM »
I prefer perpendicular universes.

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Midnight

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2008, 06:47:31 AM »
This subject interests me. Einstein was known to speculate on such things. I like the segment of that film about quantum physics and mumbo jumbo called "What the BLEEP Do We Know?!??!?" where they talked about the other "us-es".

LOL
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2008, 07:49:00 AM »
uh huh.  nice.
Don't be  hatin'.  Be appreciatin'.

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Midnight

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2008, 08:38:32 AM »
Surely you can come up with something more profound from which the majority of us can fake that we care whether or not you live or die.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2008, 09:29:42 AM »
dude, stop trying to be weird.  honestly, i hate to break it to you, *sigh* but it doesn't make you special or funny. 
Don't be  hatin'.  Be appreciatin'.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2008, 09:59:56 AM »
dude, stop trying to be weird.  honestly, i hate to break it to you, *sigh* but it doesn't make you special or funny. 

Midnight's being weird?

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Midnight

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2008, 10:39:41 AM »
Apparently this particular strain of clone believes his comments have intrinsic meaning.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2008, 01:09:14 PM »
This could be the very minute. I'm aware I'm alive. all these places feel like home. with a name I'd never chosen I can make my first steps as a child of 25...

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2008, 02:09:29 PM »
Apparently this particular strain of clone believes his comments have intrinsic meaning.

apparently...whatever  ::)
Don't be  hatin'.  Be appreciatin'.

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Midnight

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2008, 09:32:26 AM »
My point is only magnified each time you offer a cliche' rebuttal.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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WorkOverTime

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2008, 09:15:07 PM »
I don't know about parallel universes. I also think dark matter is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. I wont believe in either until they are proven and aren't just theories.
People with poor depth perception tend to go the extra mile.

Picture taken from deep space!

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Loard Z

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2008, 12:53:21 AM »
parallel universes remain a paradox simply because they can't be proven.

Just like God.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2008, 01:08:23 AM »
God is very easily provable.

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Loard Z

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2008, 01:21:17 AM »
Do you have evidence to back up your supposedly infallible claim?
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2008, 02:05:06 AM »
Existence. Morality. Conciseness. Free Will. Jana Defi.

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Loard Z

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2008, 02:10:02 AM »
Speculation.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2008, 02:10:57 AM »
I'm rather certain that I exist.

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Loard Z

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2008, 02:11:45 AM »
That you exist doesn't prove that God exists.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2008, 02:12:14 AM »
It does actually.

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Loard Z

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2008, 02:34:32 AM »
You still fail to explain how. ::)
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2008, 04:46:42 AM »
The universe exists and has either existed infinitely or finitely.

An infinitely existing universe would have run out of energy by now (due to heat death). We know that the total amount of energy and matter that exists in the universe has remained constant since the big bang (we know this due to background radiation that is everywhere in the universe because of the big bang, if energy were leaking into the universe, the background radiation temperature would be higher then it is known to be, slightly above absolute zero). Energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed entirely, only changed in form. So the universe must have began a finite time ago. If we can compare the universe to a clock, the fact that it is running down leads to the conclusion that it must have been fully wound up at some point.

Now that we know that the universe has a beginning, what is it that started it? Here we have two different theories: that the universe was created, or that the universe simply came to be out of matter that had existed in a steady state, the cosmic egg.

Right away we run into problems with the cosmic egg. Why exactly did it stop being a point smaller then an atom and started expanding extremely rapidly? For all things that happen there must be a cause. For an acid to release hydronium it must make contact with water and dissolve. When we find a huge crater in the ground where a city used to be we don't say, "Well, that just happened, there is no cause.", we look for what caused these events to happen. You could say that the egg cracked due to entropy, the natural tendency for all things in the universe to move from states of organization to randomness, it is the increasing randomness of the universe that causes heat death. But this ignores something fundamental to understanding the universes beginning, that there were no laws before the big bang. All physical laws that we know today were created along with it. It is actually not possible to explain the big bang using physical laws because those laws were created by the big bang.

The only option left is creation, but what of the creator? Obviously we cannot know all there is to know about the creator but we can infer a few things. Because the creation of the universe was a creative act, we can conclude that it was produced by a mind. As the universe comprises the totality of nature, containing everything in it that is natural, the creator is necessarily outside nature. As the creator used no natural laws or forces to create the universe, the creator is naturally supernatural. As space and time are within the universe the creator is outside of space and time, which is to say, eternal. As the universe is material, the creator is immaterial, spiritual. As the creator made all matter and energy, the creator must be incredibly powerful, as far as we can tell, omnipotent.

I could go on but I'll leave it at that for now.

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2008, 08:01:02 AM »
My point is only magnified each time you offer a cliche' rebuttal.

1.  i didn't answer you
2.  what's your point?

parallel universes are believed to explain mysterious phenomena which occur in our universe, and cannot be given a scientific explanation.  therefore, like two parallel tunnels, we have two parallel universes. 
Don't be  hatin'.  Be appreciatin'.

?

Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2008, 09:40:02 AM »
The universe exists and has either existed infinitely or finitely.

An infinitely existing universe would have run out of energy by now (due to heat death). We know that the total amount of energy and matter that exists in the universe has remained constant since the big bang (we know this due to background radiation that is everywhere in the universe because of the big bang, if energy were leaking into the universe, the background radiation temperature would be higher then it is known to be, slightly above absolute zero). Energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed entirely, only changed in form. So the universe must have began a finite time ago. If we can compare the universe to a clock, the fact that it is running down leads to the conclusion that it must have been fully wound up at some point.

Now that we know that the universe has a beginning, what is it that started it? Here we have two different theories: that the universe was created, or that the universe simply came to be out of matter that had existed in a steady state, the cosmic egg.

Right away we run into problems with the cosmic egg. Why exactly did it stop being a point smaller then an atom and started expanding extremely rapidly? For all things that happen there must be a cause. For an acid to release hydronium it must make contact with water and dissolve. When we find a huge crater in the ground where a city used to be we don't say, "Well, that just happened, there is no cause.", we look for what caused these events to happen. You could say that the egg cracked due to entropy, the natural tendency for all things in the universe to move from states of organization to randomness, it is the increasing randomness of the universe that causes heat death. But this ignores something fundamental to understanding the universes beginning, that there were no laws before the big bang. All physical laws that we know today were created along with it. It is actually not possible to explain the big bang using physical laws because those laws were created by the big bang.

The only option left is creation, but what of the creator? Obviously we cannot know all there is to know about the creator but we can infer a few things. Because the creation of the universe was a creative act, we can conclude that it was produced by a mind. As the universe comprises the totality of nature, containing everything in it that is natural, the creator is necessarily outside nature. As the creator used no natural laws or forces to create the universe, the creator is naturally supernatural. As space and time are within the universe the creator is outside of space and time, which is to say, eternal. As the universe is material, the creator is immaterial, spiritual. As the creator made all matter and energy, the creator must be incredibly powerful, as far as we can tell, omnipotent.

I could go on but I'll leave it at that for now.
Ah, the old "first cause" ploy. But, from where did the creator come?
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

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Loard Z

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2008, 09:42:26 AM »
It's a typical theist argument - I just ignore it.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

?

Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2008, 09:50:55 AM »
It's a typical theist argument - I just ignore it.
So do I, as an Atheist I find it unscientific. But it's fun to debate.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

*

Dead Kangaroo

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2008, 11:35:12 AM »
God is very easily provable.
Shut up, troll.

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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2008, 01:19:42 PM »
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2008, 02:22:35 PM »
Ah, the old "first cause" ploy. But, from where did the creator come?

Who created God? To say god is eternal then why not say the universe is eternal and operates in an endless cycle? Its silly and baseless to claim a complex being has always existed but the universe could not. I think anyone who hasn't read any of the new atheists I suggest reading my topic on resources for not believers. Some great stuff there even if you don't agree on all of it.
Augustine of Hippo answered this one over a thousand years ago. God created time when he created the universe, and is thus outside of it. Time only exists within the created universe because only in space is time discernible through motion and change. Thus, the eternal God.
Even thought I've answered this question before and it was originally answered over one millennium ago I expect to answer it many times more, for it is the nature of the dogmatic atheist to ask the question and refuse all answers, because all you want is the question.

It's a typical theist argument - I just ignore it.
You usually do that when you can't disprove it.

Feel free to try to debunk it if you are up to the challenge.

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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: Parallel Universes
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2008, 02:33:57 PM »
This is the thing about science vs. God. God can never be disproved, because he can be said to exist beyond the laws of science.

It would be intellectual suicide to take on God. We just have to hope the idea of him fades with time.

But, having said that, if time was created at the moment of the big bang, then the pre-big-bang universe would also be eternal, by the same argument. Now, since the big bang happened, we can say the probability of it happening is greater than zero, so in an eternal pre-big-bang universe, the big bang is inevitable.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.