Flawed FE Foundations

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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2008, 01:51:17 PM »
Another flaw is Tom's calculation of how much a sphere should drop after six miles. The six miles would be on the edge of the circle, not on a tangent.
He got that from me.  Care to show me how I am wrong?


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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2008, 02:07:15 PM »
Another flaw is Tom's calculation of how much a sphere should drop after six miles. The six miles would be on the edge of the circle, not on a tangent.
He got that from me.  Care to show me how I am wrong?
You? Wrong? That would create a rift in space-time or something...
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John Davis

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2008, 02:07:38 PM »
Is it not just the equation of a circle at -radius for the y center?
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jdoe

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2008, 03:59:59 PM »
Quote
Gravity does not affect light.

If it existed, why would gravity not effect light?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2008, 05:33:56 PM »
Quote
Gravity does not affect light.

If it existed, why would gravity not effect light?
Because gravity is specifically a force between objects with mass.


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jdoe

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2008, 05:36:42 PM »
Quote
Gravity does not affect light.

If it existed, why would gravity not effect light?
Because gravity is specifically a force between objects with mass.

But does not light have relativistic mass, with mass-energy equivalence and all?
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fshy94

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2008, 05:44:59 PM »
Engy's nitpicking again, ignore him. Gravity does effect the geodesics of light.

But at any rate, Username, that's a strange thing to predict, and could easily be tested by bouncing the light ping within two mirrors. Remember, this effect is relatively strong, so bouncing it between two mirrors at a low point(use a one way mirror) with exactly measured angles would end up with the light ending below the mirrors after a few hundred bounces. Would you agree? Would this constitute an objective, fair experiment to test for the existence of this new force?
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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2008, 05:52:46 PM »
Quote
Gravity does not affect light.

If it existed, why would gravity not effect light?
Because gravity is specifically a force between objects with mass.

But does not light have relativistic mass, with mass-energy equivalence and all?
m^2 = E^2/c^4 - p^2/c^2 = 0 for light.  You can, however, claim that light does have a relativistic mass.  But, what would happen if I were to slow down a photon?


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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2008, 05:53:34 PM »
Gravity does effect the geodesics of light.
Sorry, but gravity does no such thing.


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jdoe

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2008, 05:54:43 PM »
Quote
Gravity does not affect light.

If it existed, why would gravity not effect light?
Because gravity is specifically a force between objects with mass.

But does not light have relativistic mass, with mass-energy equivalence and all?
m^2 = E^2/c^4 - p^2/c^2 = 0 for light.  You can, however, claim that light does have a relativistic mass.  But, what would happen if I were to slow down a photon?

How could a photon possibly slow down?  They always travel at c.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2008, 05:56:35 PM »
They only travel at c through a vacuum.


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jdoe

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2008, 05:59:24 PM »
Yeah, but don't they still travel at c as they get bounced around atoms in a medium?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 06:02:31 PM by jdoe »
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2008, 06:02:11 PM »
The discussion is straying off topic.
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fshy94

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2008, 06:12:02 PM »
They only travel at c through a vacuum.

No. They always travel at c. All massless particles do. They only get absorbed and re-emitted in other substances. On topic, I still want Username's response on my experimental idea.
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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2008, 07:04:06 PM »
They only travel at c through a vacuum.

No. They always travel at c. All massless particles do.
Uh, no.  Light only travels at c in a vacuum.  Light travels at a slower velocity as it makes its way through denser mediums. 


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jdoe

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2008, 07:19:25 PM »
Quote
Uh, no.  Light only travels at c in a vacuum.  Light travels at a slower velocity as it makes its way through denser mediums.

Yeah, but the photons themselves never change speed.  They stay at c as they bounce around the vacuum between atoms in the medium.  Light only appears to travel less than c because the net speed of the photons as they bounce around atoms is less than c.
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fshy94

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2008, 07:51:47 PM »
They only travel at c through a vacuum.

No. They always travel at c. All massless particles do.
Uh, no.  Light only travels at c in a vacuum.  Light travels at a slower velocity as it makes its way through denser mediums. 

Quote from: Wisegeeks
In reality, the speed of light never actually slows down. It is just delayed as the photons are absorbed and re-emitted by atoms in the intervening space. When a light beam exits a transparent medium into a vacuum, it continues traveling at the same rate as when it originally entered, without any added energy.
Quote from: Wikipedia
Note that the speed of light referred to is the observed or measured speed in some medium and not the true speed of light (as observed in vacuum). It may be noted, that once the light has emerged from the medium it changes back to its original speed and this is without gaining any energy. This can mean only one thing—that the light's speed itself was never altered in the first place.

There seem to be many sites in need of your guidance. Let's see if you are capable of humility, or whether you shall continue to dig a ditch for yourself.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 07:53:30 PM by fshy94 »
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2008, 07:59:03 PM »
I don't nor do I disagree with what those quotes say.  Notice I said "makes its way through a denser medium".  The overall velocity is lower, not the actual velocity of the individual photons. 

I was going to carry this out into an illustration of the differences between Newton's gravity and gravitation, but I got lost along the way with a bad thought experiment.



Sorry, but you only get a little bit of humility.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 08:00:59 PM by TheEngineer »


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fshy94

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2008, 08:01:06 PM »
Good. So you made a mistake communicating. Fine, it happens. Just remember it for next time you decide to get pompous.
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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2008, 08:02:31 PM »
Good. So you made a mistake communicating. Fine, it happens. Just remember it for next time you decide to get pompous.
Yea, now I know what it is like to be you.    :-[




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fshy94

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2008, 08:04:08 PM »
You know, its actually not so bad if you chill out occasionally and drop your narcissistic insistence on "educating" the world. The world was doing just fine without you, and it'll get along just fine when you're gone.
Proof the Earth is round!
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2008, 08:06:34 PM »
Let's not jump the gun here!   :o


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fshy94

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2008, 08:07:10 PM »
Good to see your sense of humor is intact  ;D
Proof the Earth is round!
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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jdoe

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2008, 11:03:50 PM »
So how were you going to show that light could not be affected by Newtonian gravity?
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fshy94

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2008, 11:04:45 PM »
He was nitpicking. He wanted me to say gravitation  ::)
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2008, 11:09:44 PM »
So how were you going to show that light could not be affected by Newtonian gravity?
Light does not have mass according to Newtonian gravity.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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fshy94

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2008, 11:11:47 PM »
Neither does it in Einsteinian. Geodesics, my friend, Geodesics.
Proof the Earth is round!
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2008, 11:12:25 PM »
Geodesics don't exist in Newtonian gravity, my friend.


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jdoe

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2008, 11:14:18 PM »
Couldn't the relativistic mass of light cause it to be affected by gravity?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Flawed FE Foundations
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2008, 11:15:40 PM »
No, because gravity does not exist. 


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson