# Clarification on Gravity

• 1275 Replies
• 333979 Views
?

#### knowseverything

##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1260 on: March 15, 2011, 12:35:09 PM »
Why are you guys arguing? REALLY? There is no evidense that suggests anything they are talking about. Next thing you guys are going to tell me is that the United States is in debt.

?

#### karl

• 74
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1261 on: May 03, 2011, 12:08:47 PM »
Since it's such a hot topic around here, I decided to just make a thread with this information regarding gravity and gravitation.

NOTE: The outlined specifics are not part of the FE theory. This is accepted science, with both FET and RET.

Facts:

• Gravity as a force does not exist
• Gravity is not the same thing as gravitation
• Gravitation is not limited to objects with mass

From TheEngineer:

"Gravity specifically refers to the force that Newton theorized happens between bodies with mass and is transmitted instantaneously.  This, however, is incorrect, for a few reasons.  One, gravity is not a force.  It only looks to us as one because we assume we are not accelerating, but are at rest.  However, we are undergoing a constant physical acceleration when we are in contact with the Earth, directly or otherwise.  Two, it only acts on objects with mass.  This leaves out a whole bunch of phenomenon.  Third, it violates the speed limit of the universe, the speed of light.

Gravitation, is the apparent attraction between objects.  This includes those objects that have no mass.  It also places the limit on the speed that this attraction can have, which is the speed of light.  Now, whether this attraction is due to our tendency to follow geodesics or our acceleration through space is a matter of which model you subscribe to."

And as TheEngineer has stated before on this forum, "Gravity is a pseudo force that only arises by taking a non inertial frame of reference to be inertial.  Gravitation is a consequence of the deformation of space, no force between objects necessary."

Since our FoR is non-inertial, there is no need for gravity. Gravity only needs to exist as a force in Euclidean spacetime, and since GR states that spacetime is non-Euclidean, what we feel on Earth is therefore gravitation, and not gravity. What we feel on Earth and attribute to gravity is actually gravitation and the mechanical resistance of the Earth.

Gravity and gravitation can be interchanged in everyday use. However, when dealing with science and scientific discussion (such as on this forum), they are distinct terms and should be used as such.

Here are a collection of sources backing the above position (including an e-mail I sent to a physicist):

Quote
"All fictitious forces are proportional to the mass of the object upon which they act, which is also true for gravity. This led Albert Einstein to wonder whether gravity was a fictitious force as well. He noted that a freefalling observer in a closed box would not be able to detect the force of gravity; hence, free falling reference frames are equivalent to an inertial reference frame (the equivalence principle). Following up on this insight, Einstein was able to show (after ~9 years of work) that gravity is indeed a fictitious force; the apparent acceleration is actually inertial motion in curved spacetime. This is the essential physics of Einstein's theory of general relativity." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force

Quote
"Is Gravity A Fictitious Force?

...

The strange and in some ways disturbing answer to this supposition is that the phenomenon of gravity (the fact that things fall, and have weight) is real, but the force of gravity, as described by Newton, is not a real force, but a fictitious force
[/b].[/size]"

- http://cseligman.com/text/physics/fictitious.htm

Quote
"With general relativity, Einstein managed to blur forever the distinction between real and fictitious forces. General relativity is his theory of gravity, and gravity is certainly the paradigmatic example of a "real" force. The cornerstone of Einstein's theory, however, is the proposition that gravity is itself a fictitious force (or, rather, that it is indistinguishable from a fictitious force)." - http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=ABE57453-E7F2-99DF-32538FF7C7B37F20

Quote
"You have it essentially right

mdivito@cevo.com wrote:
> user_email -- mdivito@cevo.com
> question -- I was just looking for some clarification of a few things in regards to gravitation.
>
> GR basically showcases that gravity as a force doesn't exist, correct?
>
> Now, as I understand it, gravity only needs to exist as a force in Euclidean spacetime, and since GR states that spacetime is non-Euclidean, what we feel on Earth is therefore gravitation, and not gravity?
>
>
>
>

--
******************************************
F. Todd Baker
225 Henderson Ave.
Athens, GA 30602

Email: tbaker@physast.uga.edu
Phone: 706-546-xxxx
Cell: 706-714-xxxx
Web: http://www.ftoddbaker.com/
******************************************"

Quote
"This is analogous to what mass does to the structure of space-time. It causes a depression to form so that if an object  rolls toward it, it falls into the pit and is captured. (This, by the way, is how Einstein envisioned how gravity works. Mass distorts the space-time causing particles to roll toward the mass. Note that the objects follow the shape of the space-time and in this sense are following an unforced motion! That is, there is no gravitational force, objects are simply following their natural motions.)" - http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/122/lecture-2/gw.html

Quote from: Wiki on GR
One of the defining features of general relativity is the idea that gravitational 'force' is replaced by geometry. In general relativity, phenomena that in classical mechanics are ascribed to the action of the force of gravity (such as free-fall, orbital motion, and spacecraft trajectories) are taken in general relativity to represent inertial motion in a curved spacetime. So what people standing on the surface of the Earth perceive as the 'force of gravity' is a result of their undergoing a continuous physical acceleration caused by the mechanical resistance of the surface on which they are standing.[/b]

Quote from: Wiki on Non Inertial Frames of Reference
An apparent exception would seem to be the force of gravity, which is also proportional to the mass upon which it acts. Although gravity can be considered a "real" physical force for the purposes of calculations in classical mechanics, Albert Einstein showed in his theory of general relativity that gravity itself can also be considered a fictitious force. In his theory, the free-falling reference frame is equivalent to an inertial reference frame (the equivalence principle). By contrast, Einstein noted that observers standing on the Earth are experiencing an unrecognized acceleration from the normal force pushing up on their feet and, thus, are in a non-inertial (accelerated) reference frame. Further details may be found under general relativity.

this is by far the most retarded thing I have ever read. have you ever heard of physics? it's a well documented phenomenon with heaps of scientific fact to support it, and when I say phenomenon, that's really just to FE'ers, the rest of humanity 'gets' it ok, but feel free to ignore it, hearing only what you want to hear, and knowing only what you've heard seems to be the forum mantra

?

#### xerodivzero

• 1
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1262 on: May 09, 2011, 04:45:19 AM »
I am no physicist so I might get this wrong, but please don't bother replying unless your using LOGIC. Now I know the FET's don't believe (I'm not sure if thats politically correct, sorry) in certain aspects of physics such as gravity but you do believe in acceleration obviously. Now its a know fact that acceleration due to "gravity" is not a constant on earth, rather it is less at the equator and also varies on certain areas on earth, weather this is acceleration due to gravity or acceleration due to the fact that the earth is accelerating upwards does not matter in this context as I am simply stating that the acceleration downwards in not precisely 9.8m/s^2. The reason it is not exactly the same all over earth also does not matter but: 1) because of centrifugal force (its lower at the equator because the earth is spinning however lets not assume the earth is round) and 2) because of varying masses in the earth. That does not matter because if acceleration due to gravity was because of the earth accelerating upwards than the g-force will be EXACTLY the same all over earth that is a fact. I have no way to proove that gravity is different over the planet however its a know fact that it is, then again its a know fact that earth is round. so maybe this is a way you could proove that earth is either flat or not.

?

#### trentcarp94

• 1
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1263 on: May 25, 2011, 09:35:48 AM »
Have any of you actually taken a high school physics course?

?

#### Harutsedo

• 1046
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1264 on: May 26, 2011, 03:40:23 AM »
this is by far the most retarded thing I have ever read. have you ever heard of physics? it's a well documented phenomenon with heaps of scientific fact to support it, and when I say phenomenon, that's really just to FE'ers, the rest of humanity 'gets' it ok, but feel free to ignore it, hearing only what you want to hear, and knowing only what you've heard seems to be the forum mantra

Does it bother you that gravity is a fictitious force? Because it is according to general relativity, which is more valid than Newtonian mechanics.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.

?

#### vhu9644

• 1011
• Round earth supporter
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1265 on: May 31, 2011, 03:30:07 AM »
i dont think some of the people here understand what is a fictitious force
people i respect: Ski, Oracle, PizzaPlanet, Wendy

#### EnglshGentleman

• Flat Earth Editor
• 9548
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1266 on: May 31, 2011, 06:57:09 AM »
Have any of you actually taken a high school physics course?

Most of us have taken university level physics courses.

?

#### wchs101nigs

• 5
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1267 on: June 16, 2011, 08:32:33 PM »
First off these are not facts about gravity. They have some fact.
First: you believe gravity is not an object. that is correct it is not an object because it is intangable (THAT MEANS YOU CAN NOT TOUCH IT)
Second: gravity is not the same thing as gravitation. FALSE. HOW STUPID DO YOU HAVE TO BE? gravity GRAVITY GRAVITATION cant you see that gravitation has gravity in it?
Third: gravitation is not limited to objects with mass: this has some fact. EXCEPT FOR IT IS CALLED GRAVITY NOT GRAVITION. Gravitation is the pull of the ROUND earth on objects in outer space.........LIKE THE SPHERICAL MOON.

Hows that for education?
xoxo gossip girl

#### Roundy the Truthinessist

• Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
• The Elder Ones
• 27043
• I'm the boss.
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1268 on: June 16, 2011, 08:35:35 PM »
First off these are not facts about gravity. They have some fact.
First: you believe gravity is not an object. that is correct it is not an object because it is intangable (THAT MEANS YOU CAN NOT TOUCH IT)
Second: gravity is not the same thing as gravitation. FALSE. HOW STUPID DO YOU HAVE TO BE? gravity GRAVITY GRAVITATION cant you see that gravitation has gravity in it?
Third: gravitation is not limited to objects with mass: this has some fact. EXCEPT FOR IT IS CALLED GRAVITY NOT GRAVITION. Gravitation is the pull of the ROUND earth on objects in outer space.........LIKE THE SPHERICAL MOON.

Hows that for education?
xoxo gossip girl

This post made my day.  Thank you.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

?

#### wchs101nigs

• 5
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1269 on: June 16, 2011, 08:40:03 PM »
is it because i posted in the right topic?

OR IS IT BECAUSE IM SMARTER THAN YOU AND I KNOW THESE THINGS EVEN THOUGH IM STILL ONLY IN HIGHSCHOOL?

oh and btw i could have a serious conversation about why the world is round when i was in year one.............
ROUND EARTH FTW

#### Roundy the Truthinessist

• Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
• The Elder Ones
• 27043
• I'm the boss.
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1270 on: June 16, 2011, 08:41:37 PM »
OR IS IT BECAUSE IM SMARTER THAN YOU

No, it's definitely not that...
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

#### EnglshGentleman

• Flat Earth Editor
• 9548
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1271 on: June 16, 2011, 11:24:25 PM »
is it because i posted in the right topic?

OR IS IT BECAUSE IM SMARTER THAN YOU AND I KNOW THESE THINGS EVEN THOUGH IM STILL ONLY IN HIGHSCHOOL?

oh and btw i could have a serious conversation about why the world is round when i was in year one.............
ROUND EARTH FTW

It is defnitely not that. You think gravity = gravitation just because there is the word "gravit" in gravitation. I suppose you believe laughter = manslaughter as well, don't you.

Gravity != gravitation. Go read a book.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 06:43:18 AM by EnglshGentleman »

?

#### wchs101nigs

• 5
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1272 on: June 22, 2011, 07:03:09 PM »
Gravity = the force of attraction by which terrestrial bodies tend to fall toward the center of the earth.
gravitation in general.

Gravitation =
the force of attraction between any two masses. Compare law of gravitation.

these are from the dictionary look that up.

manslaughter = Law . the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought.

laughter = the action or sound of laughing.

#### Beorn

• Flat Earth Editor
• 6543
• If I can't trust my eyes, what can I trust?
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1273 on: June 23, 2011, 02:37:41 AM »
Gravity = the force of attraction by which terrestrial bodies tend to fall toward the center of the earth.
gravitation in general.

Gravitation =
the force of attraction between any two masses. Compare law of gravitation.

these are from the dictionary look that up.

manslaughter = Law . the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought.

laughter = the action or sound of laughing.

gravitation is manslaughter?
Quote
Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

#### berny_74

• 1786
• The IceWall! Beat that
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1274 on: June 23, 2011, 06:46:50 AM »
Gravity = the force of attraction by which terrestrial bodies tend to fall toward the center of the earth.
gravitation in general.

Gravitation =
the force of attraction between any two masses. Compare law of gravitation.

these are from the dictionary look that up.

manslaughter = Law . the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought.

laughter = the action or sound of laughing.

gravitation is manslaughter?

No he is quoting EG with a quote fail where EG thinks manslaughter is funny.

Berny
It's only fun and games until someone loses an eye

To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

#### EnglshGentleman

• Flat Earth Editor
• 9548
##### Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #1275 on: June 23, 2011, 09:15:52 AM »
Gravity = the force of attraction by which terrestrial bodies tend to fall toward the center of the earth.
gravitation in general.

Gravitation =
the force of attraction between any two masses. Compare law of gravitation.

these are from the dictionary look that up.

manslaughter = Law . the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought.

laughter = the action or sound of laughing.

Perfect, you have read something. Hopefully you now understand the difference between the two.