The all-new conspiracy theory!

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #330 on: May 15, 2008, 12:46:30 PM »
No, its an intruiged proffesor of maths, I've read a book recently about the FE theory and find myself thoroughly interested in the whole concept.

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #331 on: May 15, 2008, 12:53:51 PM »
In essence, if you ask the binomial expansion of consistency shown that the cosine, length, and then we can conclude that the angle of the rise in that area is 180 degrees, which is impossible, because it means that the sun during the above The Samoa spot. However, if you look at that Reciprical and take into account the nature of the Handels-left rule, then we can go through the calculation that the sun rotates at 66.426,228 (3.sf) meters per second, if that is the case, then sonicbooms consistently produce, we certainly hear that the I tell that the figures are far!

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #332 on: May 15, 2008, 01:03:17 PM »

3000 is not my calculation, its an approximation accepted by FES, and the relative distance is supported by the observations of your own eyes when you look out the window.

So, do you think this figure is correct?

Quote
It is most certainly not millions of km's, as you claim.

Actually I haven't made a claim, but I do believe that to be true.
I know round when I see it.

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #333 on: May 15, 2008, 01:10:39 PM »
Essentially if you apply a binomial expansion using the congruency shown by the cosine of the lengths, then we can draw the conclusion that the angle of elevation will be in the region of 180 degrees, which is impossible as this means the sun would remain over the same point. However if you look at the reciprical and take into account the nature of Handels left hand rule, then we can deviate through calculus that the sun spins at 66426.228(3.s.f) meters per second, if this was the case, then it would be constantly be producing sonicbooms, which surely we would hear, i reckon your figures are way off!!!

This post beats every other in number of things i had to google in order to understand it. Moreover, there are some that i simply couldnt find:

1. I cannot find a definition for reciprical anywhere. Did you possibly mean:
Reciprocal - Used to denote different kinds of mutual relation;
        often with reference to the substitution of reciprocals
        for given quantities.


If not, could you please explain (here or in pm) what reciprical is? English is not my native language.

2. What is Handels left hand rule? The only left hand rule i know is the Fleming's one.

3. Could you/someone therefore explain, prefferably in simple words, why should sun spin at that speed? Complete proof is of course not neccessary, i need a way to grasp the idea.

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markjo

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #334 on: May 15, 2008, 01:14:53 PM »
Essentially if you apply a binomial expansion using the congruency shown by the cosine of the lengths, then we can draw the conclusion that the angle of elevation will be in the region of 180 degrees, which is impossible as this means the sun would remain over the same point. However if you look at the reciprical and take into account the nature of Handels left hand rule, then we can deviate through calculus that the sun spins at 66426.228(3.s.f) meters per second, if this was the case, then it would be constantly be producing sonicbooms, which surely we would hear, i reckon your figures are way off!!!

This post beats every other in number of things i had to google in order to understand it. Moreover, there are some that i simply couldnt find:

1. I cannot find a definition for reciprical anywhere. Did you possibly mean:
Reciprocal - Used to denote different kinds of mutual relation;
        often with reference to the substitution of reciprocals
        for given quantities.


If not, could you please explain (here or in pm) what reciprical is? English is not my native language.

2. What is Handels left hand rule? The only left hand rule i know is the Fleming's one.

3. Could you/someone therefore explain, prefferably in simple words, why should sun spin at that speed? Complete proof is of course not neccessary, i need a way to grasp the idea.

I'm thinking that it's a case of "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with B.S."
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #335 on: May 15, 2008, 01:16:16 PM »
Essentially if you apply a binomial expansion using the congruency shown by the cosine of the lengths, then we can draw the conclusion that the angle of elevation will be in the region of 180 degrees, which is impossible as this means the sun would remain over the same point. However if you look at the reciprical and take into account the nature of Handels left hand rule, then we can deviate through calculus that the sun spins at 66426.228(3.s.f) meters per second, if this was the case, then it would be constantly be producing sonicbooms, which surely we would hear, i reckon your figures are way off!!!

This post beats every other in number of things i had to google in order to understand it. Moreover, there are some that i simply couldnt find:

1. I cannot find a definition for reciprical anywhere. Did you possibly mean:
Reciprocal - Used to denote different kinds of mutual relation;
        often with reference to the substitution of reciprocals
        for given quantities.


If not, could you please explain (here or in pm) what reciprical is? English is not my native language.

2. What is Handels left hand rule? The only left hand rule i know is the Fleming's one.

3. Could you/someone therefore explain, prefferably in simple words, why should sun spin at that speed? Complete proof is of course not neccessary, i need a way to grasp the idea.

I'm thinking that it's a case of "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with B.S."

I'm starting to really like you markjo, you spot these things well
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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #336 on: May 15, 2008, 01:16:23 PM »
Essentially if you apply a binomial expansion using the congruency shown by the cosine of the lengths, then we can draw the conclusion that the angle of elevation will be in the region of 180 degrees, which is impossible as this means the sun would remain over the same point. However if you look at the reciprical and take into account the nature of Handels left hand rule, then we can deviate through calculus that the sun spins at 66426.228(3.s.f) meters per second, if this was the case, then it would be constantly be producing sonicbooms, which surely we would hear, i reckon your figures are way off!!!

Narcberry, is that you?

This IS narberry. Handel is a composer, not a mathematician, and any fool who knows how sound works would not tell you that a spinning object in space can produce sonicbooms. Furthermore, use something called your common sense. How, how in the world, can the distance of one object to another affect the rotational velocity of said spherical object? Anyone who falls for this deserves a whack.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 01:18:21 PM by fshy94 »
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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lindelof

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #337 on: May 15, 2008, 01:18:05 PM »
Is narcberry serious about the stuff he says?

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #338 on: May 15, 2008, 01:21:13 PM »
1. Reciprocal is a more complex, too complex if you ask me, for of finding the reverse of an equation, it is done by factorising the coefficients within a formula, then multiplying out and dividing by the common factor in reference to the previouslt identified coefficient series.
2. Handel's left rule states, that light rays coming from the sun, or any other stars, cannot be refracted in certain ways, depending on the speed of rotation, the left hand element is somewhat irrelevant.
3. The reason for this speed being calculated, is due to the derivation of first finding the reciprocal, then substituting values into the equation having made a correlation between the suns ray exposure and its refraction, then you come out with the figure previously quoted.

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #339 on: May 15, 2008, 01:22:51 PM »
No, narcberry is a prankster and a troll, some would categorize him as an evil clown, but I think he is:

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/impostor.htm

Really, he just pretends to be anyone to amuse himself...including an FE'er. Or this could be Saddam.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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markjo

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #340 on: May 15, 2008, 01:23:44 PM »
I'm starting to really like you markjo, you spot these things well

Thank you.  Although in a place like this, it really isn't all that hard.   ;D
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #341 on: May 15, 2008, 01:26:44 PM »
1. Reciprocal is a more complex, too complex if you ask me, for of finding the reverse of an equation, it is done by factorising the coefficients within a formula, then multiplying out and dividing by the common factor in reference to the previouslt identified coefficient series.
2. Handel's left rule states, that light rays coming from the sun, or any other stars, cannot be refracted in certain ways, depending on the speed of rotation, the left hand element is somewhat irrelevant.
3. The reason for this speed being calculated, is due to the derivation of first finding the reciprocal, then substituting values into the equation having made a correlation between the suns ray exposure and its refraction, then you come out with the figure previously quoted.

Aah, this is so much fun.

1. Oh, is that so? And what equation is this? And do you mean the reciprocal rule(which isn't so bad), or the multiplicative inverse(which is without doubt, the most complex mathematical concept devised to man)?

2. And you just made this one up on the spot, eh? And what precisely does it have to do with your left hand, since all these "hand rules" have a basis in what you can check with a hand. Like the right hand rules for EM.

3. Oh, this is so much fun. And tell me, what is refraction caused by? Light. Tell me the behavior of light. That's right, it doesn't have anything to do with rotation, it travels just the same. You can spin the light source all you like, the refraction through an atmosphere behaves just the same.

4. How the hell did sound travel through space?

Now get off this thread before Engy comes around.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 01:28:27 PM by fshy94 »
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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lindelof

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #342 on: May 15, 2008, 01:27:42 PM »
Aww.  Cranks aren't nearly as fun when they're faking it

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #343 on: May 15, 2008, 01:34:03 PM »
Huh. This is interesting. Look at his first post.

I'm going to break THE NEWS TO YOU NOW, YOUR ALL INSANE WHAT IS YOUR DEFECT?!! Clearly the earth is nice and round, like a peach.
I am a well cultured boy from a background of religious beleivers, rumor has it, that the world was made by god, why would he build it like a monopoly board? Surley he would be far more satisfied with a smooth round product, similar to a tennis ball given to a little boy!! As we all know, god had a long flowing beard, it was so lucious, that it was the envy of many men, i ask you this, if god needed to cut and shape his fine beard, and the world was flat, surely when he whips out his gillete fusion for a sesh, his beardy fur clippings would sprinkle all over the earth? That doesn't happen, so in conclusion you are all ridiculous.
Lots of love,
Burger nips

Little bit of a turnaround in personality, eh?
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #344 on: May 15, 2008, 04:10:46 PM »
In essence, if you ask the binomial expansion of consistency shown that the cosine, length, and then we can conclude that the angle of the rise in that area is 180 degrees, which is impossible, because it means that the sun during the above The Samoa spot. However, if you look at that Reciprical and take into account the nature of the Handels-left rule, then we can go through the calculation that the sun rotates at 66.426,228 (3.sf) meters per second, if that is the case, then sonicbooms consistently produce, we certainly hear that the I tell that the figures are far!


Anyone who thought he actually meant this nonsense, is an idiot.

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #345 on: May 15, 2008, 04:32:36 PM »
In essence, if you ask the binomial expansion of consistency shown that the cosine, length, and then we can conclude that the angle of the rise in that area is 180 degrees, which is impossible, because it means that the sun during the above The Samoa spot. However, if you look at that Reciprical and take into account the nature of the Handels-left rule, then we can go through the calculation that the sun rotates at 66.426,228 (3.sf) meters per second, if that is the case, then sonicbooms consistently produce, we certainly hear that the I tell that the figures are far!


Anyone who thought he actually meant this nonsense, is an idiot.

Some people dont think they are omniscient and try to analyse a post before taking it as bullshit. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Is asking for an explanation such a bad thing?

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #346 on: May 15, 2008, 05:47:11 PM »
In essence, if you ask the binomial expansion of consistency shown that the cosine, length, and then we can conclude that the angle of the rise in that area is 180 degrees, which is impossible, because it means that the sun during the above The Samoa spot. However, if you look at that Reciprical and take into account the nature of the Handels-left rule, then we can go through the calculation that the sun rotates at 66.426,228 (3.sf) meters per second, if that is the case, then sonicbooms consistently produce, we certainly hear that the I tell that the figures are far!


Anyone who thought he actually meant this nonsense, is an idiot.

We may be on opposite sides of this issue, but on this point I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Quote from: Ankerdent


Some people dont think they are omniscient and try to analyse a post before taking it as bullshit. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Is asking for an explanation such a bad thing?

Don't be silly. There are fifteen inconsistencies in his ridiculous speech, and just because someone is or claims to be on your side of an issue does not mean you should agree with and support any nonsense they say or do.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 05:49:57 PM by fshy94 »
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

?

Youre avin a larf

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #347 on: May 16, 2008, 12:20:57 AM »
In fact, planes from South America don't go to South Africa at all. There are very few international airports in South Africa, you see.
Oh good, a verifiable fact.
SA023 is a non stop flight from Sao Paulo to Jo'burg. It flies every day of the week
It has a flight time of approximately 11 hours.
How fast must it fly to do it in that time on your FE model?

Come on.

Is there no FE'er who can tell me on the basis of your model how far it is from Sao Paulo to Jo'burg.

Tom Bishop: Are you not bothered that something you have stated as fact "there are no flights.." is so easily shown to be wrong. Isn't it a bit dishonest to not either acknowledge you are wrong or, I dunno, claim everyone at SAA is in on the conspiracy?
I know round when I see it.

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #348 on: May 16, 2008, 10:49:44 AM »
Larf, there are only a few reasonable FE'ers who post alot here, and Tom is not one of them. If you want reasonable discussion with a FE'er, try Username, Dogplatter, and maybe some of the more recent guys(I haven't yet seen enough of Ski and eht_ehsan to make a judgment on them)
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

?

Youre avin a larf

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #349 on: May 16, 2008, 10:59:14 AM »
Larf, there are only a few reasonable FE'ers who post alot here, and Tom is not one of them. If you want reasonable discussion with a FE'er, try Username, Dogplatter, and maybe some of the more recent guys(I haven't yet seen enough of Ski and eht_ehsan to make a judgment on them)

Thanks.

To be honest, I'm looking for anyone to reply to my questions.

From reading many of the threads the FE'ers appear to treat TB like some sort of authority.

He has visited the forum since I have left questions for him.
I know round when I see it.

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #350 on: May 16, 2008, 11:02:12 AM »
No, not really, it would be a mistake to think that. Most of the serious FE'er treat him as a joke, and pretend to look to him as authority for a laugh. Really, just step back a moment, read his posts, and you'll see he's excellent comic relief.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

?

Youre avin a larf

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #351 on: May 16, 2008, 11:06:39 AM »
No, not really, it would be a mistake to think that. Most of the serious FE'er treat him as a joke, and pretend to look to him as authority for a laugh. Really, just step back a moment, read his posts, and you'll see he's excellent comic relief.

OK then anyone, really anyone, who believes in FE wanna answer my posts.
I know round when I see it.

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TheEngineer

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #352 on: May 16, 2008, 11:10:58 AM »
From reading many of the threads the FE'ers appear to treat TB like some sort of authority.
You must be dyslexic.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #353 on: May 16, 2008, 11:30:36 AM »
In fact, planes from South America don't go to South Africa at all. There are very few international airports in South Africa, you see.
Oh good, a verifiable fact.
SA023 is a non stop flight from Sao Paulo to Jo'burg. It flies every day of the week
It has a flight time of approximately 11 hours.
How fast must it fly to do it in that time on your FE model?

Come on.

Is there no FE'er who can tell me on the basis of your model how far it is from Sao Paulo to Jo'burg.

Tom Bishop: Are you not bothered that something you have stated as fact "there are no flights.." is so easily shown to be wrong. Isn't it a bit dishonest to not either acknowledge you are wrong or, I dunno, claim everyone at SAA is in on the conspiracy?

I certainly do not speak for FE'ers.  But based on the evidence at hand, I do believe the world to be flat.

The problem is that we do not have an accepted map.  If you really want to pursue the point, you can make the same arguments without the map.  Assume distance Sao Paulo to Jo'burg is X.  Conclude that distance from City 1 and City 2 must be more than Y.  If FE makes X shorter, than Y must be longer.

I really don't think you'll get anywhere with the argument however.  (1) significant effect of jetstreams (example provided cut flight time by 1/3), (2) the non-linear routes, and (3) the fact that most flights are not directly between continents.  Flight time is a fluid, moving target.  People guage it by how long it seems to ordinarily take, not how long it looks on RE map.

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #354 on: May 16, 2008, 11:35:07 AM »
I've heard that argument before, and I dispute for the following reasons.

1. Whether or not jetstreams could do it, they're not observed in that area. There are no siginificant jet streams in the Southern hemisphere.

2 & 3. If that was so, we would see significant time/distance/speed problems, as I think we can agree that with jetstream or no, if a plane like this breaks the sound barrier, it would be destroyed. Therefore, our maximum speed is Mach 1, and that simply is not possible.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

?

Youre avin a larf

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #355 on: May 16, 2008, 11:48:01 AM »
This discussion continues on it's own thread. Do keep up.



I certainly do not speak for FE'ers.  But based on the evidence at hand, I do believe the world to be flat.

What evidence. You have still to tell me what you can see 'with your own eyes out of a window'.

Quote
The problem is that we do not have an accepted map.


RE does, so that would make it not only a FE problem but a fundamental flaw in the hypothesis.
Quote
If you really want to pursue the point, you can make the same arguments without the map.  Assume distance Sao Paulo to Jo'burg is X.  Conclude that distance from City 1 and City 2 must be more than Y.  If FE makes X shorter, than Y must be longer.

The distance between the the two cities mentioned and the published and verifiable flight times is entirely consistent with the published cruising speed of the A340.
However without any comparison to RE either the distance or speed has to be wrong in the FE model.
Which is it?

Quote
I really don't think you'll get anywhere with the argument however.  (1) significant effect of jetstreams (example provided cut flight time by 1/3), (2) the non-linear routes, and (3) the fact that most flights are not directly between continents. 

None of the above can make an A340 appear to fly at mach 3.
Quote
Flight time is a fluid, moving target.  People guage it by how long it seems to ordinarily take, not how long it looks on RE map.

I think you'll find that most people gauge time with a watch.
Either everyone on the plane has to be in on the conspiracy or every plane spookily lands very, very late.



I know round when I see it.

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Ski

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #356 on: May 16, 2008, 11:56:04 AM »
I've heard that argument before, and I dispute for the following reasons.

1. Whether or not jetstreams could do it, they're not observed in that area. There are no siginificant jet streams in the Southern hemisphere.

2 & 3. If that was so, we would see significant time/distance/speed problems, as I think we can agree that with jetstream or no, if a plane like this breaks the sound barrier, it would be destroyed. Therefore, our maximum speed is Mach 1, and that simply is not possible.

1. There are jetstreams in the Southern Hemisphere.

2. One's ground speed could break whatever the mach number was for that altitude without the airspeed exceeding that of sound. For example your A340-600 could reach a ground speed of 1315kmph with a jet stream tail wind, while not exceeding mach in airspeed. I don't have the data from Airbus to suggest that the Vne is above or below mach (though I'd suspect it is below).
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Youre avin a larf

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #357 on: May 16, 2008, 12:10:23 PM »
The answer to this will appear on the A340 thread.
I know round when I see it.

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #358 on: May 16, 2008, 12:10:45 PM »

Quote
Flight time is a fluid, moving target.  People guage it by how long it seems to ordinarily take, not how long it looks on RE map.

I think you'll find that most people gauge time with a watch.
Either everyone on the plane has to be in on the conspiracy or every plane spookily lands very, very late.

I think Ski has addressed the other points very well.

Regarding this one, why would the flight be late?  Late compared to what?  They judge the flight based on how long it took last time, not by calculating distance and speed.

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Ski

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #359 on: May 16, 2008, 12:12:14 PM »
The answer to this will appear on the A340 thread.

Really? Some one addressed a Vne speed from Airbus and I missed it?
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."