The all-new conspiracy theory!

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #210 on: February 14, 2008, 05:11:34 AM »
Quote
And the ships? Must be some strong currents in the oceans to get them to port on time.

Well, stick some falsifiable evidence regarding this point into the thread and maybe you'll be on to something.

Better idea. Stick some water on a spinning plate and watch.

Yep, it gets moving pretty fast.

That does not explain difference of magnitude at different latitudes (for both atmospheric and ocean currents).

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #211 on: February 14, 2008, 11:15:40 AM »
I found this site, but don't have the time to analyze it all. Can someone help out?

http://www.sailwx.info/shiptrack/shiplocations.phtml
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #212 on: February 14, 2008, 04:50:04 PM »
I just want to bring up the fact that NO answer was ever given to fshy94's arguments about the tropics. If the world was flat, the tropic of cancer would be within the tropic of capricorn. The distance around one would have to be different from the other. It is not. How do you explain this, Tom?
   (fshy94 is my hero)

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #213 on: February 14, 2008, 05:31:55 PM »
Thanks ;D

To make my point, there's a ton of data in there(in fact, its one of my new favorite sites...), and one example is the Oceanographic research ships James Clark Ross, and Nathan B Palmer. They are recorded as having moved 100 RE miles in around 36 hours, and yet in FE, they must have moved around 1000 miles. Or look at CSCL LONGKOU, a container ship, that in RE traveled 350 miles in one day, and yet in FE miles must have traveled approximately 1500 miles per day, approximating a speed of over 60 MPH, an astounding feat for a cargo ship...there's probably tons more, these are just a few that I found within a few minutes research delving in there. There's a load more.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #214 on: February 14, 2008, 06:37:07 PM »
Twas really hoping for a response.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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dyno

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #215 on: February 14, 2008, 09:00:41 PM »
you got plenty, just not rational ones

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Ltar

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #216 on: February 14, 2008, 10:42:38 PM »
Am I the only one who sees that the tropics of capricorn and cancer do not actually exist? in exactly the same way that the Prime meridian does not exist. The distances between the tropics is moot because on the FE model, they're meaningless.
Blame not on malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
wow you are officially narcberry stupid. 

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jdoe

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #217 on: February 14, 2008, 10:47:39 PM »
Am I the only one who sees that the tropics of capricorn and cancer do not actually exist? in exactly the same way that the Prime meridian does not exist. The distances between the tropics is moot because on the FE model, they're meaningless.

The tropics of cancer and capricorn mark the minimum and maximum radii of the sun's orbit, respectively, in the FE model.  Doesn't that make them meaningful?
Mars or Bust

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Ltar

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #218 on: February 14, 2008, 11:12:24 PM »
Am I the only one who sees that the tropics of capricorn and cancer do not actually exist? in exactly the same way that the Prime meridian does not exist. The distances between the tropics is moot because on the FE model, they're meaningless.

The tropics of cancer and capricorn mark the minimum and maximum radii of the sun's orbit, respectively, in the FE model.  Doesn't that make them meaningful?

right, but that doesn't imply that they're equidistant from each other. If they are defined by the sun's path over the earth, then the lower tropic would be farther around. It only appears that they are similar due to the earth's magnetic field distorting space/time.
Blame not on malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
wow you are officially narcberry stupid. 

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #219 on: February 14, 2008, 11:20:34 PM »
However, they are universally agreed to be concentric, right? And the data suggests that the tropics have about the same circumference size. Now, how can concentric circles have the same circumference?
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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jdoe

  • 388
Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #220 on: February 14, 2008, 11:21:21 PM »
Quote
right, but that doesn't imply that they're equidistant from each other. If they are defined by the sun's path over the earth, then the lower tropic would be farther around.

Well, the equator is defined to be exactly in between the two.

Quote
It only appears that they are similar due to the earth's magnetic field distorting space/time.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...  Care to explain how that happens?
Mars or Bust

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #221 on: February 14, 2008, 11:22:30 PM »
Oh whoops, I missed that. Yeow. So, how do electromagnetic fields warp spacetime now?
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Ltar

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #222 on: February 15, 2008, 12:45:47 AM »
Of course they do. They distort gravity, causing iron filings to jump into formation. Therefore, they distort space and time. Electromagnetism is a more powerful force than gravity, affects gravity, and thereby distorts time and space through gravity. This creates the illusion of traveling slower over a shorter distance than you really are. It helps to make the earth seem round, and it makes it increasingly difficult to determine one's true position and speed as you travel progressively rimward.
Blame not on malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
wow you are officially narcberry stupid. 

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jdoe

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #223 on: February 15, 2008, 02:31:37 AM »
Just wait for TheEngineer.  He'll set you straight.
Mars or Bust

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #224 on: February 15, 2008, 10:25:54 AM »
Erm...Electroweak is mediated by virtual photons, yes? So, while these photons may have an extremely brief time where they have relativistic mass, which can bend space-time on the order of 10^-30ish, I'm guessing, which is for an extremely short bit of time. Now, that's puny. When space-time bends a little bit, that's also gravity, which is not distorting gravity, its creating gravity, which would only tend to have a slight attraction to any mass, which does not explain anything at all.

Are you denying that electroweak is caused by virtual photons? I'm not too sure, because that's a pretty hard argument to make, and furthermore, even if it behaved as you said it would, it wouldn't change a thing. So, does anyone have a rational explanation to this, and now that I have ships doing it as well, unless Dogplatter claims all ships are now a Satanic cult...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #225 on: February 15, 2008, 11:45:11 AM »
Thanks ;D

To make my point, there's a ton of data in there(in fact, its one of my new favorite sites...), and one example is the Oceanographic research ships James Clark Ross, and Nathan B Palmer. They are recorded as having moved 100 RE miles in around 36 hours, and yet in FE, they must have moved around 1000 miles. Or look at CSCL LONGKOU, a container ship, that in RE traveled 350 miles in one day, and yet in FE miles must have traveled approximately 1500 miles per day, approximating a speed of over 60 MPH, an astounding feat for a cargo ship...there's probably tons more, these are just a few that I found within a few minutes research delving in there. There's a load more.

Bumped for answers.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Ltar

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #226 on: February 15, 2008, 01:07:50 PM »
Just wait for TheEngineer.  He'll set you straight.
your lack of faith is disturbing.

Blame not on malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
wow you are officially narcberry stupid. 

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #227 on: February 15, 2008, 01:17:29 PM »
You didn't quite answer the point I made above...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Ltar

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #228 on: February 15, 2008, 01:36:25 PM »
Sorry, I didn't notice it.

Anyways, I'm not sure what you're talking about when you refer to electroweak--- I've never been briefed in that theory. Virtual Protons? I would be genuinely curious to see some literature regarding this theory, I think it's just slipped under my radar.

Of course, Weak Electromagnetic Force is what we observe as magnets and electricity, where strong electromagnetic force is the stuff of protons and atomic nuclei. I just want to be sure I have my definitions straight.

And of course, the distortion of space-time by the earth's electromagnetic field is facilitated by the earth's extremely powerful electromagnetic field. It's not unknown that birds and whales follow migration routes based on the magnetic field, and that local disturbances in it from volcanic activity or pollution can muck things up. We also are receptive to these fields, and they distort our senses.

I mean to say, the earth's electromagnetic field is immensely powerful, we've simply overestimated the magnetism of metals.

Blame not on malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
wow you are officially narcberry stupid. 

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fshy94

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  • ^^^ This is the Earth ...die alien invaders!!
Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #229 on: February 15, 2008, 02:22:28 PM »
No problem, my post was a little buried.

Well, electroweak is one of the fundamental forces of nature. It was originally thought that electromagnetism and weak forces were distinct, but it was later learned that they were just the same force, hence electroweak.

At any rate, its a long theory, but the theory goes that since Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle allows for very brief violations of conservation of mass, energy is transferred through "virtual" particles, where the particle violates COM, transfers energy, and then disappears pretty much. Odd theory, but backed by quite a bit of evidence.

Electromagnetism is magnets and electricity, yes, but the exact same thing happens in nuclear scenarios...not sure what the weak EM force and strong EM forces are....

But at any rate, are you postulating that these virtual photons are curving spacetime for some odd reason on macroscales? No matter what strength you postulate the Earth's magnetic field to be, you'd have to have an INSAAAANE field strength to do what you're talking about. The postulated energy of a photon is measured in MeV's, which are about 1.60217646 × 10^-13 J, plus we have to tack on the energy-mass conversion thingamabob, which is around 10^-16, plus we have to use the gravitational constant G, for another 10^-11...That puts us in the ballpark of around 10^-40...Now, the only way we see an observable effect of space-time is probably if you have an energy field in the ballpark of 10^30th power joules, or basically, more energy than we have probably ever seen, which begs the question, where does this energy come from? And furthermore, why don't we observe the other effects of this curved spacetime, namely, extra gravity?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 02:26:52 PM by fshy94 »
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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char70ger

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #230 on: February 15, 2008, 02:50:15 PM »
Back to the issue of flights being delayed and all that. Every transcontinental flight that originates from any commercial  airport has to present a flight path from the originating airport to the destination airport. If there are delays of more than 1 hr. it is a big deal in the aviation industry. They don't just say "oh boy!" "you are 18 hours late. No big deal it happens all the time." The routs are known and the times it take to travel those routs are recored. So even if the pilots are glorified taxi drive the air traffic controllers are not. If it takes longer than expected then they actually search for the delayed flight to see what happened to it. All flights are monitored for on time arrival and there are serious investigations when there are major delays. This also applies in the US and Canada for private flights from municipal airports. I have been up many times with a good friend of mine and even only flying 15 miles to the next airport requires a flight plan be submitted to the originating airport so they can pass it on to the destination airport to expect the arrival at x:00.

So it is not just the pilot who is involved there are dozens of people involved even if it is Uncle Charlie out for a Sunday joy ride in his Cessna! It is all recorded and mapped ahead of time and he is expected at the destination at a specific time. Do you all understand?

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Ltar

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #231 on: February 15, 2008, 03:27:36 PM »
No problem, my post was a little buried.

Well, electroweak is one of the fundamental forces of nature. It was originally thought that electromagnetism and weak forces were distinct, but it was later learned that they were just the same force, hence electroweak.

At any rate, its a long theory, but the theory goes that since Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle allows for very brief violations of conservation of mass, energy is transferred through "virtual" particles, where the particle violates COM, transfers energy, and then disappears pretty much. Odd theory, but backed by quite a bit of evidence.

Electromagnetism is magnets and electricity, yes, but the exact same thing happens in nuclear scenarios...not sure what the weak EM force and strong EM forces are....

I think we're talking about the same things, I saw a documentary series on it once, it was about trying to unite electromagnetism and gravitation to form a Grand Unified Theory, but it was a challenge because gravity is so weird.

Anyways, Weak EM = Magnetism you play with in school
Strong EM = holds nuclei together
Virtual protons = ....   This is the term that threw me. Is this an alternative to quantum orbitals? When the an electron becomes excited enough, it instantaneously leaps to a higher orbital, when it falls back down, it emits an photon. Highschool level chemistry/physics.

 Is this the purpose of virtual protons? to carry the electron up and down? I have no trouble with cut-and-dry quantum leaps, but virtual particles seem like imaginary carrier mechanisms for a phenomena that already has an explanation.

Oh, and gravity = weird as hell. Works through a vacuum, no detectable carrier, inverse square law, seems to violate conservation of energy, we don't understand it. String theory tries to explain it, but the predictions are all untestable.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 03:29:33 PM by Ltar »
Blame not on malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
wow you are officially narcberry stupid. 

?

fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #232 on: February 15, 2008, 03:33:27 PM »
Indeed we are. The thing is, when I was taught, they never made a distinction between strong and weak electromagnetism, just terminology I guess...

At any rate, the virtual photon(not protons ;D) is what in some cases, transfers the energy to make the electron excited, yada yada. It stops electromagnetism from behaving instantaneously, etc...

In fact, all fundamental forces are mediated by virtual particles. Electroweak -- Photon; Strong -- Gluon, IIRC, and Gravitation is theorized to be Graviton, which has proven difficult to detect for some reason or other...

At any rate, my point was that your idea was impossible, so another theory must be made for why cargo ships, airplanes, and so on are travelling like they would on an RE.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

?

Ltar

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #233 on: February 15, 2008, 03:40:59 PM »
Indeed we are. The thing is, when I was taught, they never made a distinction between strong and weak electromagnetism, just terminology I guess...

At any rate, the virtual photon(not protons ;D) is what in some cases, transfers the energy to make the electron excited, yada yada. It stops electromagnetism from behaving instantaneously, etc...

In fact, all fundamental forces are mediated by virtual particles. Electroweak -- Photon; Strong -- Gluon, IIRC, and Gravitation is theorized to be Graviton, which has proven difficult to detect for some reason or other...

At any rate, my point was that your idea was impossible, so another theory must be made for why cargo ships, airplanes, and so on are travelling like they would on an RE.

I think i understand now, when you classify a virtual photon in the same class as gluons, photons, and gravitons. If you're looking for a better explanation of southern 'hemisphere' travel, you may be able to find a useful implication from the theories posited in this thread:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19898.0;topicseen
Blame not on malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
wow you are officially narcberry stupid. 

?

fshy94

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  • ^^^ This is the Earth ...die alien invaders!!
Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #234 on: February 15, 2008, 05:25:00 PM »
Thanks ;D

To make my point, there's a ton of data in there(in fact, its one of my new favorite sites...), and one example is the Oceanographic research ships James Clark Ross, and Nathan B Palmer. They are recorded as having moved 100 RE miles in around 36 hours, and yet in FE, they must have moved around 1000 miles. Or look at CSCL LONGKOU, a container ship, that in RE traveled 350 miles in one day, and yet in FE miles must have traveled approximately 1500 miles per day, approximating a speed of over 60 MPH, an astounding feat for a cargo ship...there's probably tons more, these are just a few that I found within a few minutes research delving in there. There's a load more.

Bumped for answers.

Since we moved a bit off topic...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

*

Benocrates

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #235 on: February 16, 2008, 12:11:50 AM »
I've actually taken the time to read this whole thread and wonder why nobody has hoped on something interesting that Tom said before his puppeteer vanished. He constantly reinforces the point that REers need to provide evidence for their claims. I have seen almost no evidence if any coming from Tom or any FEer yet they still demand RE evidence.

    The pilot who posted earlier on made the point that RE is the currently accepted model. The onus is on FEers to provide actual evidence. Just saying "read book ____" is the intellectual equivalent of yelling "look over there" then run away. If anyone claims anything about a FE they must show a map. I can provide many RE maps, they are available anywhere. So I can go beyond my duty of evidence (none) but none is on the other side. Evidence of super fast jet streams and the other nonsense. I had decided to stay out of the whole battle between reason and unreason but here I need to have my say.

The onus is on the FEers, you have to actually provide the evidence. Why not just quote from the book? If you have time to waste typing out long winded responses like I'm doing now, you have the time to quote from the books. I have online libraries, paid for, with no Flat Earth books available. I know there are amazon links but there is no way I'm going to buy this nonsense without at least some previews in the form of excerpts of dialogue or maps.

     I know most of the FEers really don't believe this shit but the problem is some actually do! I have no doubt Tom Bishop is somebody on this board considered a REer, most likely well known, that only does this to keep these ridiculous debates going. I guess thats all well and good but your honestly corrupting minds.

    BTW, does anyone have a links to FE documentaries online?
Quote from: President Barack Obama
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Get the fuck over it.

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #236 on: February 16, 2008, 12:33:03 AM »
That's nice of you to share your thoughts and feelings with us, bubbles. But you forgot that you originally came here and sought us out. We did not seek you out. Therefore the onus is on you to prove us wrong.

If you cannot do that, please leave.

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divito the truthist

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #237 on: February 16, 2008, 06:02:55 AM »
The onus is on the FEers, you have to actually provide the evidence.

BoP is on whoever makes the claim. As it turns out, more REers make claims on here than FEers.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
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objectively good

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #238 on: February 16, 2008, 06:50:12 AM »
The onus is on the FEers, you have to actually provide the evidence.

BoP is on whoever makes the claim. As it turns out, more REers make claims on here than FEers.
But the FE'ers make the more important claim that deviates from common knowledge. Saying "color blind people actually see more color", on a new site dedicated to this concept is a deviating and important claim; if 500 people come to claim they are wrong, the burden of proof isn't shifted on them because of their size. The burden of proof shouldn't be placed on the general understanding or common knowledge, but on the site and question that is reaching to a new definition of reality to assert that common knowledge is wrong. Simply put, FE pulls away from RE first, meaning it must have reasons to do so.
Presenting those reasons wouldn't be hard if they existed and FE was valid.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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fshy94

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  • ^^^ This is the Earth ...die alien invaders!!
Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #239 on: February 16, 2008, 07:05:12 PM »
At any rate, does anyone have an explanation for the ships I pointed out as well? The only one that accounts for both is now Ltar's semi-serious contribution of wormholes...
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!