Satellites

That's you saying, origamiscienceguy. And there're also dots pointed by arrows and some codes written.
When I look up to the sky I can't see dots with arrows. If you have a better representation to show, feel free.

Just watch for their iridium flares. Only attracted do that.

Also, those stationary objects didn't exist until after they were launched.but I guess that's s just a coincidence.

A coincidence that happened hundreds of times by now.

That's you saying, origamiscienceguy. And there're also dots pointed by arrows and some codes written.
When I look up to the sky I can't see dots with arrows. If you have a better representation to show, feel free.

You've probably missed few things:

1. There's a timelapse with no arrows.
2. You can make such timelapse with proper equipment. You can see dots of light not moving.
3. The galaxy image is a visualization, not an actual photo. Hence comparing both images makes no sense.

Quote from: Uninvited Guest on September 19, 2016, 07:35:53 AM

That's you saying, origamiscienceguy. And there're also dots pointed by arrows and some codes written.
When I look up to the sky I can't see dots with arrows. If you have a better representation to show, feel free.

You've probably missed few things:

1. There's a timelapse with no arrows.
2. You can make such timelapse with proper equipment. You can see dots of light not moving.
3. The galaxy image is a visualization, not an actual photo. Hence comparing both images makes no sense.

The only big deal about that timelapse is that it is very nice and well done.
But the information... what does that mean? That these fixed dots are at the same altitude of the stars?
Even the arc you see, curving like part of a circle, might be an effect of the angle used to capture the "composition".
I'm not meaning you wouldn't see it with proper equipment, but the interpretation that they are outside the planet bugs me.

Let's assume you can't infer from this combination of images any solid argument.

Also notice the pointlike light emitted by these 'satellites', with little diffusion. Could you show me this picture without movement?

The arcs are St Arab that are moving across the sky relative to the camera due to the rotation of the earth.

The stationary dots are geosynchronous satalites that are orbiting at the same rate that the earth rotates.

Quote from: N30 on September 16, 2016, 03:19:12 PM

Pick any number.
Multiply it by two.
Then add ten.
Divide the total by two.
Subtract the current number from the original number chosen.
Your answer is five.

Quote from: onebigmonkey on September 16, 2016, 02:58:40 PM

Feel free to prove those calculation methods you gave to be incorrect.

They are correct, but for the same reason that the above "magic" formula is correct.

I pick -2.

*2=-4

+10=6

/2=3

3=/=5

You might want to do some real math for a change.

I really hate to be this guy origami, but you forgot to "subtract the original number", if you subtract -2 from 3, you get 5.

Ah. My mistake.

I chose infinity, long story short, result is undefined.

Ha.

That's you saying, origamiscienceguy. And there're also dots pointed by arrows and some codes written.
When I look up to the sky I can't see dots with arrows. If you have a better representation to show, feel free.

Assuming you have a smartphone or computer, there are several satellite tracking apps and websites out there. And they're amazingly accurate! As I've already stated, I use "ISS Detector" and catch Iridium Flares almost every night /morning. These apps will show you the precise path the satellite will move overhead, and when - down to the second! Even the magnitude of brightness.  I highly encourage you to look into this. It's actually something I look forward to every evening..

ISS detector is only available for Android.

Do you suggest another one?

Is "heavens above" available on your phone?

Heavens above is THE website for satellite tracking. But as I only have android, I cannot suggest anything other than what a search would turn up. Here's a link
http://www.space.com/32387-satellite-space-station-skywatching-mobile-apps.html

ISS Spotter and iFlares look promising. Try them, and once you start watching iridium flares, you'll be amazed at the accuracy of prediction. They start out dim, get insanely bright, then go back to dim, til it's past overhead.

That's you saying, origamiscienceguy. And there're also dots pointed by arrows and some codes written.
When I look up to the sky I can't see dots with arrows. If you have a better representation to show, feel free.

I know its obivious, but those 'codes written' are satellite designations.

But the information... what does that mean? That these fixed dots are at the same altitude of the stars?
Even the arc you see, curving like part of a circle, might be an effect of the angle used to capture the "composition".

[...]

Also notice the pointlike light emitted by these 'satellites', with little diffusion. Could you show me this picture without movement?

1. It doesn't mean fixed dots are at the same altitude. On the other hand, there are no record of such fixed points pre-satellite era. In other words, they started showing there once poeple started sending satellites

2. The arc is arc because paths of stars are circular.

3. No, the source of that timelapse has timelapses only.

ISS detector is only available for Android.

Do you suggest another one?

yeah, get a grown ups phone!

iPhones are teenage girls phones, bottom end specs with no features whatsoever.. for the same price as top end phones

iPhones are a scam, even the shitty old blackberrys have a huge list of features iPhones STILL don't have

the latest greatest iPhone 7 has lower specs than a Samsung S4!

Yeah, don't get me started on why android is superior to iPhone! Most people with androids don't even realize the full capability of what they have. Once you root it, the possibilities of installing custom built software (ROMs) & kernels is near endless. Not to mention FREE wireless hotspot (unlimited data is a must).
But you can jailbreak an iPhone and get free apps!!

Yeah, don't get me started on why android is superior to iPhone! Most people with androids don't even realize the full capability of what they have. Once you root it, the possibilities of installing custom built software (ROMs) & kernels is near endless. Not to mention FREE wireless hotspot (unlimited data is a must).
But you can jailbreak an iPhone and get free apps!!

not my phone, can't find a rooting method

Quote from: Uninvited Guest on September 19, 2016, 02:31:06 PM

ISS detector is only available for Android.

Do you suggest another one?

yeah, get a grown ups phone!

iPhones are teenage girls phones, bottom end specs with no features whatsoever.. for the same price as top end phones

iPhones are a scam, even the shitty old blackberrys have a huge list of features iPhones STILL don't have

the latest greatest iPhone 7 has lower specs than a Samsung S4!

The new iPhone sucks. They removed the jack where you put your headphones or earbuds. And you have to rely on BluTooth which isn't reliable or safe.

Quote from: IonSpen on September 20, 2016, 07:34:02 AM

Yeah, don't get me started on why android is superior to iPhone! Most people with androids don't even realize the full capability of what they have. Once you root it, the possibilities of installing custom built software (ROMs) & kernels is near endless. Not to mention FREE wireless hotspot (unlimited data is a must).
But you can jailbreak an iPhone and get free apps!!

not my phone, can't find a rooting method

XDA-Developers
RootzWiki
It's in one or the other. Or will soon be. I'd start in XDA.

Quote from: Johnorbital on September 20, 2016, 05:26:31 AM

Quote from: Uninvited Guest on September 19, 2016, 02:31:06 PM

ISS detector is only available for Android.

Do you suggest another one?

yeah, get a grown ups phone!

iPhones are teenage girls phones, bottom end specs with no features whatsoever.. for the same price as top end phones

iPhones are a scam, even the shitty old blackberrys have a huge list of features iPhones STILL don't have

the latest greatest iPhone 7 has lower specs than a Samsung S4!

The new iPhone sucks. They removed the jack where you put your headphones or earbuds. And you have to rely on BluTooth which isn't reliable or safe.

You can buy a decent Android phone for the price of Earbuds.

either way, pokemon works on both!

(yeah, I'm one of them :/ lol)

Quote from: Uninvited Guest on September 19, 2016, 11:37:51 AM

But the information... what does that mean? That these fixed dots are at the same altitude of the stars?
Even the arc you see, curving like part of a circle, might be an effect of the angle used to capture the "composition".

[...]

Also notice the pointlike light emitted by these 'satellites', with little diffusion. Could you show me this picture without movement?

1. It doesn't mean fixed dots are at the same altitude. On the other hand, there are no record of such fixed points pre-satellite era. In other words, they started showing there once poeple started sending satellites

2. The arc is arc because paths of stars are circular.

3. No, the source of that timelapse has timelapses only.

They're inside earth's atmosphere, a little high so you can think you're seeing something orbiting space.
The arc is just an effect of perspective. By that timelapse, you can't say otherwise.

It seems your source is not enough to prove it.

Quote from: AYellowCat on September 20, 2016, 10:44:12 AM

Quote from: Johnorbital on September 20, 2016, 05:26:31 AM

Quote from: Uninvited Guest on September 19, 2016, 02:31:06 PM

ISS detector is only available for Android.

Do you suggest another one?

yeah, get a grown ups phone!

iPhones are teenage girls phones, bottom end specs with no features whatsoever.. for the same price as top end phones

iPhones are a scam, even the shitty old blackberrys have a huge list of features iPhones STILL don't have

the latest greatest iPhone 7 has lower specs than a Samsung S4!

The new iPhone sucks. They removed the jack where you put your headphones or earbuds. And you have to rely on BluTooth which isn't reliable or safe.

You can buy a decent Android phone for the price of Earbuds.

Which is why I like Android to an extent.

I just read most of this thread and the subject of geosynchronous satellites, the kind that brings TV signals to a lot of paying customers around the world is mentioned a few times. We are told that the satellites are in perfect sync with the orbiting Earth directly above the equator and they send down to us crystal clear TV signals. I know the signals are crystal clear because I use to subscribe to DirecTV and the picture quality was nearly perfect. At the time I believed there were satellites up there beaming down the TV signals to my dish antenna. I also know that the dish has to be pointing spot on to a supposedly satellite in order to receive the signal. Off by almost any amount will cause the signal to pretty much go south. It is very critical getting the antenna position correctly if you want a good signal. Once the antenna is set correctly and the mounting bolts and nuts are tight, It never has to be repositioned, or at least mine never did. This thought leads me to ask the question, why not? I'm sure most of us has heard the Earth wobbles on it's axis as it rotates. This is like a spinning top will wobble a little as it spins around and the wobble increases as it slows down until it stops spinning and falls down. The Earth, we are told does the same thing. This wobble is called Chandler wobble, it was named after Seth Carlo Chandler in 1891. He is credited with discovering it. Over a period of slightly more than a year (about 430 days), the Chandler wobble shifts the north-south spin axis of the Earth about three to six meters. In 2005 it actually shifted by 180^o. This is where I have to wonder if geosynchronous satellites are really bring TV signals to our televisions or is it something else? I simply don't see how the Earth can wobble 3 to 6 meters per year and we never have to re-adjust our satellite dishes. Like I stated above, the dishes are very non forgiving. If you are off just a slight bit, the signal goes south.

The way I see it is, If the Earth wobbles or actually move six meters throughout the year, that to me is the same as your satellite dish moving six meters also, in reference to the stationary satellite beaming down TV signals. Anyone who has a dish knows you can't move your dish six inches let alone six meters and expect to receive a good TV signal. I've never heard of a method that compensates for this wobble, so I lean towards believing they must be using another method to beam TV signals to us or the Earth is not wobbling or rotating like we are told.

6 meters max compared to the circumference of over 40,000 kilometers is far, far, far less than even a tenth of a degree of movement.  it is not anywhere near enough to knock the dish out of alignment.  Or think of it this way.  You have your dish aligned and then move it laterally 6 meters.  It is still going to be pointing in almost exactly the same direction.  You'd be off at most about a thousandth of a degree.  Seeing as how you typically have to align your dish within half a degree I'm sure you'd be fine.
You said you can't move the dish "six inches" but that is measured as a rotation on its mount which changes its orientation by far more than a degree.

The earth's wobble (called precession)
Takes thousands of years to complete one wobble.

The earth's wobble (called precession)
Takes thousands of years to complete one wobble.

He's right about the Chandler wobble which has a period of 433 days.  But it won't affect a satellite for the reason I already said.  It amounts to less than a thousandth of a degree.  Although the part he said about it shifting 180 degrees in 2005 is bogus.  I think I would have noticed if the North Star was suddenly in the South.

I just read most of this thread and the subject of geosynchronous satellites, the kind that brings TV signals to a lot of paying customers around the world is mentioned a few times. We are told that the satellites are in perfect sync with the orbiting Earth directly above the equator and they send down to us crystal clear TV signals.

While Geostationary Satellites may be "in perfect sync", they are not perfectly stationary.

Geostationary Satellite
There are two other, less serious, problems with geostationary satellites. First, the exact position of a geostationary satellite, relative to the surface, varies slightly over the course of each 24-hour period because of gravitational interaction among the satellite, the earth, the sun, the moon, and the non-terrestrial planets. As observed from the surface, the satellite wanders within a rectangular region in the sky called the box. The box is small, but it limits the sharpness of the directional pattern, and therefore the power gain, that earth-based antennas can be designed to have.
From: Techtarget Definition Geostationary-satellite

While a perfectly stationary position is highly desirable, it is not practical.
But it is not such a serious problem. For a 1 m diameter dish at 12 GHz an angular error of 0.5° with still give an acceptable signal (an antenna gain of about 39.4 dB compared to about 40.5 dB if perfectly aligned^[1]).

Now 0.5° at the Geostationary altitude of 22,236 miles corresponds to the satellite being off location by 194 miles.

So forget about a few metres out mattering - accuracy like that is simply not necessary.

I know the signals are crystal clear because I use to subscribe to DirecTV and the picture quality was nearly perfect. At the time I believed there were satellites up there beaming down the TV signals to my dish antenna. I also know that the dish has to be pointing spot on to a supposedly satellite in order to receive the signal. Off by almost any amount will cause the signal to pretty much go south. It is very critical getting the antenna position correctly if you want a good signal. Once the antenna is set correctly and the mounting bolts and nuts are tight, It never has to be repositioned, or at least mine never did. This thought leads me to ask the question, why not? I'm sure most of us has heard the Earth wobbles on it's axis as it rotates. This is like a spinning top will wobble a little as it spins around and the wobble increases as it slows down until it stops spinning and falls down. The Earth, we are told does the same thing.

This wobble is called Chandler wobble, it was named after Seth Carlo Chandler in 1891. He is credited with discovering it. Over a period of slightly more than a year (about 430 days), the Chandler wobble shifts the north-south spin axis of the Earth about three to six meters.

As above "three to six meters" is of no importance at all - the satellite can be miles out and not matter at all.

In 2005 it actually shifted by 180^o. This is where I have to wonder if geosynchronous satellites are really bring TV signals to our televisions or is it something else? I simply don't see how the Earth can wobble 3 to 6 meters per year and we never have to re-adjust our satellite dishes. Like I stated above, the dishes are very non forgiving. If you are off just a slight bit, the signal goes south.

The Chandler wobble did not shift by 180° in 2005, it changed in phase by 180° in 2005, see Earth's Chandler Wobble Changed Dramatically in 2005.

If you travel to the Arctic and attempt to find the axis of Earth’s rotation, you’ll notice something odd. The position of this axis on Earth’s surface moves with a period of about seven years. This is the combined result of two effects. The one we’re interested today is called the Chandler Wobble, which has a period of 433 days and was discovered by American astronomer Seth Carlo Chandler in 1891.

The way I see it is, If the Earth wobbles or actually move six meters throughout the year, that to me is the same as your satellite dish moving six meters also, in reference to the stationary satellite beaming down TV signals. Anyone who has a dish knows you can't move your dish six inches let alone six meters and expect to receive a good TV signal. I've never heard of a method that compensates for this wobble, so I lean towards believing they must be using another method to beam TV signals to us or the Earth is not wobbling or rotating like we are told.

No, 6 inches, 6 metres or even 6 miles movement of the satellite is of no significance at all to receivers on the ground.
It is probably more significant for the much larger uplink dishes.

Really if you are going to be so cynical about everything to do with the Globe, you really should try to undertand what you read.


[1] From Satsig Antenna Beamwidth-Calculator

What you are saying may be true, an angular error of 0.5^o may not hurt signal level enough to be noticeable. I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that if you get your dish set to nearly a perfect picture, then go outside and pick your dish up and move it 6 meters in any direction, not changing the azimuth or elevation, and set it back down, I feel your dish will now have to be realigned because the angle to the satellite will be more then .5^o off and the signal will be much weaker. I've never tried this, so I may be wrong. Please, will someone with a dish try this for us to see what happens to the signal.

What you are saying may be true, an angular error of 0.5^o may not hurt signal level enough to be noticeable. I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that if you get your dish set to nearly a perfect picture, then go outside and pick your dish up and move it 6 meters in any direction, not changing the azimuth or elevation, and set it back down, I feel your dish will now have to be realigned because the angle to the satellite will be more then .5^o off and the signal will be much weaker. I've never tried this, so I may be wrong. Please, will someone with a dish try this for us to see what happens to the signal.

If it is still oriented the same then it will be fine.  Or you do you really think that your dish and your neighbors are that far off from each other?  And again, a movement of 6 meters is equal to about a thousandth of a degree.

What you are saying may be true, an angular error of 0.5^o may not hurt signal level enough to be noticeable. I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that if you get your dish set to nearly a perfect picture, then go outside and pick your dish up and move it 6 meters in any direction, not changing the azimuth or elevation, and set it back down, I feel your dish will now have to be realigned because the angle to the satellite will be more then .5^o off and the signal will be much weaker. I've never tried this, so I may be wrong. Please, will someone with a dish try this for us to see what happens to the signal.

You moving your dish 6 m (and "not changing the azimuth or elevation") has
Surely you can see this without my having to draw a diagram.