The "Conspiracy"

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kai

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The "Conspiracy"
« on: December 28, 2007, 08:09:57 PM »
(OK, I am not going to re-argue about the ambiguous "government" falsifying space photos or guarding the ice wall with spy planes and the like, bear with me...)

The RE theory is not new, by any means.  It was thought up quite some time before Columbus tried to prove it.  It was conceived mathematically from the angles and rotations of celestial objects and later proven through measured expeditions.  However, if FE is true, then all of these mathematical figures all the way back to the ancient Greeks have been faked.  Plus, I don't know how much you study European history, but the church (which was virtually the ruling power for much of the Dark and Middle Ages) was against a round earth and Copernican/Newtonian physics.

A conspiracy over the last half-century or so is certainly possible, but my question is: Has there really been a continuous conspiracy over thousands of years spanning countless countries and cultures?

Detailed rebuttal please.

Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2007, 08:38:29 PM »
FE'ers believe that almost everybody educated believed the earth was round since the Greeks predicted it was. The Catholic Church was never against a round earth, they were against a earth not at the center of the universe. FE'ers believe the conspiracy began in the last several centuries (possibly with the space age) and has continued for the financial benefit of its members.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 07:31:58 PM by Althalus »

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fshy94

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2007, 09:02:46 PM »
I'd like to point out that Columbus did not discover the earth is round; by his time it was well established that it was(astronomical arguments, etc.), and RE was favored by most, although some clung to FE. So the conspiracy is older... 
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2007, 09:04:59 PM »
Quote
I'd like to point out that Columbus did not discover the earth is round; by his time it was well established that it was(astronomical arguments, etc.), and RE was favored by most, although some clung to FE. So the conspiracy is older...

Or the RE proponents were just mistaken.

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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2007, 09:17:46 PM »
Quote
I'd like to point out that Columbus did not discover the earth is round; by his time it was well established that it was(astronomical arguments, etc.), and RE was favored by most, although some clung to FE. So the conspiracy is older...

Or the RE proponents were just mistaken.
A biased opinion, nothing more.

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kai

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2007, 09:34:24 PM »
I'd like to point out that Columbus did not discover the earth is round...

(Yes I know, that's what I was saying; it is a common misconception, but that's not the point...)

FE'ers believe that almost everybody educated believed the earth was round since the Greeks predicted it was. The Catholic Church was never against a round earth, they were against a earth not at the center of the earth. FE'ers believe the conspiracy began in the last several centuries (possibly with the space age) and has continued for the financial benefit of its members.

First: When I said the church was against RE, I was referring to the whole RE theory, sorry if I mispoke.  (Technically, the church was against a "round earth" for a short time simply because most people initially denied it)

So you are saying that the conspiracy "began in the last several centuries... possibly with the space age."  The Space Age has only been in the past half-century, so what time period are you talking about? 1700's, 1800's.  As I recall, the motivation FE'ers give behind a conspiracy is money, money which the government gives to NASA and NASA "pretends to make new discoveries."  Well, there was no NASA or space program back before the 1950's, so who was getting the money and where is it coming from?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2007, 09:41:59 PM by kai »

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 11:42:53 AM »
Quote
First: When I said the church was against RE, I was referring to the whole RE theory, sorry if I mispoke.  (Technically, the church was against a "round earth" for a short time simply because most people initially denied it)

Disagree.

early church believed the Earth to be round, however, they disagreed with it not being the centre of the universe. They also refused (initially) to acknowledge the existence of life on the Southern hemisphere because 'antipodes' (people who are 'upside down') were difficult to reconcile with the  biblical belief that we all descended from Adam and eve. There was widespread belief of 'Torrid climes' that made journey to the South impossible.

The 'Orb' used by medieval (and indeed modern) royalty represent the Earth with Christ at the 'top of the world' If the old royalties had believed in a Flat Earth, then why would they have the Earth represented as a sphere?

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kai

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2007, 01:22:55 PM »
 :'( Will no one answer my question?  I don't care about what the church believed.  Fine, they always believed the earth was round, doesn't matter.  The church had little power after the 1600's, which is about the time Althalus says the conspiracy "started," so that's the time I care about right now.  Please don't refute the arbitrary additions, respond to my question.

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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2007, 03:56:31 PM »
Quote
I'd like to point out that Columbus did not discover the earth is round; by his time it was well established that it was(astronomical arguments, etc.), and RE was favored by most, although some clung to FE. So the conspiracy is older...

Or the RE proponents were just mistaken.

Or the FE proponents were just... crackers.
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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 08:09:17 PM »
:'( Will no one answer my question?  I don't care about what the church believed.  Fine, they always believed the earth was round, doesn't matter.  The church had little power after the 1600's, which is about the time Althalus says the conspiracy "started," so that's the time I care about right now.  Please don't refute the arbitrary additions, respond to my question.

It's very possible people simply believed that the Earth was round until NASA went up, and that was when they realized, "Oh shit, it's not round," and the conspiracy was formed. If you don't want to take that device, perhaps the conspiracy was created in the times coming out of the dark ages (before that, people were simply mistaken), in order to have a the ability to control its people. The time period was highly unstable, and any wager, even a myth created by a lord to keep his peasants in line could very well lead to a large conspiracy, which was passed down for a while, and abandoned until NASA came along and realized they could make money off of it.

~D-Draw

Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2007, 04:49:55 AM »
It's very possible people simply believed that the Earth was round until NASA went up, a
~D-Draw
i though NASA never went to space because it spends all its money on photoshop. u FE'ers cant just make things up to best suite the question  ::)
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2007, 10:24:25 AM »
It's very possible people simply believed that the Earth was round until NASA went up, a
~D-Draw
i though NASA never went to space because it spends all its money on photoshop. u FE'ers cant just make things up to best suite the question  ::)

The initial launches would have been real if a RE was believed. it was only after that that the manipulation of photos (which doesn't need Photoshop, look at the Stalinist changing of photos to erase people from existence)

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kai

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2008, 12:35:59 PM »
...perhaps the conspiracy was created in the times coming out of the dark ages (before that, people were simply mistaken), in order to have a the ability to control its people. The time period was highly unstable, and any wager, even a myth created by a lord to keep his peasants in line could very well lead to a large conspiracy...

Yea, OK, I could see that...

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divito the truthist

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2008, 01:18:46 PM »
Yea, OK, I could see that...


Except that's not what he means... Mocking is fun and all, except when you totally purport what he meant.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
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kai

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2008, 08:30:50 PM »
I'm not just mocking a minute detail.  The whole point of this thread is to ask: What reason would people have for covering up the fact that the earth was flat in the days before NASA or even the US?  I am merely emphasizing that had the common people known the earth was flat instead of round, it would have not affected their day-to-day lives serving their superiors in society.  I just want an answer that will carry some weight.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2008, 09:52:32 PM »
I'm not just mocking a minute detail.  The whole point of this thread is to ask: What reason would people have for covering up the fact that the earth was flat in the days before NASA or even the US?  I am merely emphasizing that had the common people known the earth was flat instead of round, it would have not affected their day-to-day lives serving their superiors in society.  I just want an answer that will carry some weight.

The RE proponents of the pre-NASA era were just mistaken.

Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2008, 09:59:05 PM »
theses bots are getting a little to clever  :o

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2008, 10:41:06 PM »
theses bots are getting a little to clever  :o

And sadly, simultaneously, the humans' intelligence seems to be dropping...


I'm not just mocking a minute detail.  The whole point of this thread is to ask: What reason would people have for covering up the fact that the earth was flat in the days before NASA or even the US?  I am merely emphasizing that had the common people known the earth was flat instead of round, it would have not affected their day-to-day lives serving their superiors in society.  I just want an answer that will carry some weight.

The Earth being flat may not seem like that big of a deal right now, and it probably wasn't back then. But it starts like an old wives' tale. "There's a dragon in that cave" pretty much stops kids from going into the cave where they're likely to hurt themselves, and it continues as a meme. "The Earth is round" pretty much stops people from, among other things that didn't come to the top of my head, considering the possibility of further exploration southwards (keep in mind, people very possibly thought that if you passed the equator, you'd fall off the edge of the Round Earth, due to its shape), considering leaving the vicinity of what they know for exploration, or receiving as well of an education as nobility (at the time, anyone with power was pretty much having a completely merciless power trip). The latter to me is the most plausible. It's a way of keeping the peasants down. The peasants, therefore, could not accurately study geography, astronomy, even physics, perhaps, as well as other studies which were reserved for Lords. It's a way of keeping the serfs in their place. If they can't study science, that's just one less possibility for them, and that's what the superiors would want, because they need them for unskilled labor.

~D-Draw

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2008, 12:09:05 AM »
I agree.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2008, 12:10:13 AM »
Wow, mature Diego.   ::)  I mean, it really takes someone with IMMEASURABLE amounts of wit and intelligence to point out a couple of spelling errors.   :P

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divito the truthist

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2008, 03:35:50 AM »
Wow, mature Diego.   ::)  I mean, it really takes someone with IMMEASURABLE amounts of wit and intelligence to point out a couple of spelling errors.   :P

And what does that say about the person who wrote the errors?
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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2008, 12:14:10 AM »
Wow, mature Diego.   ::)  I mean, it really takes someone with IMMEASURABLE amounts of wit and intelligence to point out a couple of spelling errors.   :P

The point wasn't that he made the errors, it's what he was stating while making such errors. Simply pointing out irony. It's my job.


~D-Draw

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kai

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Re: The "Conspiracy"
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2008, 06:29:22 PM »
The peasants, therefore, could not accurately study geography, astronomy, even physics, perhaps, as well as other studies which were reserved for Lords. It's a way of keeping the serfs in their place. If they can't study science, that's just one less possibility for them, and that's what the superiors would want, because they need them for unskilled labor.

Yea, ok, but if the conspiracy didn't really start until NASA discovered the truth, then there wasn't conspiracy, only misinterpretation.  The peasants may not have been able to study geography and astronomy well (that knowledge would unlikely  get them rebellious, but I won't argue that point), but the nobility would be studying the same RE model, and so no one would be studying geography and astronomy correctly.  Had the serfs studied these topics, they would learn what the noble scientists know, and do just as well in the field (theoretically).  It would be much more beneficial if the nobility did what they actually did: impoverish and tax the peasants so that they cannot get an education, thus nullifying the need to "make up" an alternate earth theory.

I noticed that you said "among other things that didn't come to the top of my head," so I guess I will wait if you have a different answer.

EDIT: OK, I just realized this: Yes, knowledge of physics could spark revolutionary ideas (Locke's tabula rasa, etc.) but physics on a middle world scale is the same in FE as RE.  If nobles wanted to inhibit the learning of physics they would have preached that God or magic made the world work, or something of that nature.