Poles and Magnetism...

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fshy94

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Poles and Magnetism...
« on: December 27, 2007, 12:29:23 PM »
How does your magnificent theory describe our dear friend the north and south magnetic poles, my friends? Now, RE describes a spinning inner and outer core, which is consistent with EM theory, but how does flat earth explain this away? We do agree that compasses and magnetism exist, yes? Or is everyone with a compass part of the "conspiracy"? Oh wait, that includes me! Lets find out the latest grand explanation of the FE'ers. The hilarious thing is that the inner core was not discovered until 1936, so they can't exactly turn to their old idiot, Rowbotham...

Oh, and by the way, if you don't agree with current theories of magnetism, you have to figure out how aurora's work. Just mentioning, as I'm sure this is going to happen. Oh, and seismic experiments have proved the inner and outer core using the timing of seismic events traveling through the earth. So yeah, don't give me any nonsense about the cores and mantle not existing. Oh, and by the way, how is it that you define the earth in 3D space(since we agree on that, I hope)? As a 2D object  in a 3D world(pretty tough to imagine)? As a paper thin wafer? Or as a cakeish object, with us on the top?

Happy explaining, and have a happy new year. Cheers!
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divito the truthist

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2007, 12:36:15 PM »
They don't work any differently.

Or, the North Pole is a monopole.

That is all.
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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2007, 12:43:25 PM »
Here's an experiment to show you about monopoles. Take a bar magnet, preferably one labeled with N and S. Snap it in half. Now tell me, do you have a north monopole and a south monopole? I didn't think so.

If the process works the same, where is the core? I thought the earth was flat, remember? A core implies a sphere... If somehow the core is just in the center of the earth, why are the north poles in the same place as where a spherical theory would predict? Magnetism(a simple experiment with an electrical wire can show you this), tends to end up in the z direction; inevitably going up in the case of a flat earth. That would place the north and south pole just above and below the center of the earth. Even if you can somehow rationalize this into ending up at the far ends of the poles(I remember that the north pole or the south pole was actually distributed across a large circular area at the ends of the earth), how do you account for a moving pole? How about magnetic reversals?
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divito the truthist

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2007, 12:52:47 PM »
"In physics, a magnetic monopole is a hypothetical particle that may be loosely described as "a magnet with only one pole" (see electromagnetic theory for more on magnetic poles). In more accurate terms, it would have net magnetic charge. Interest in the concept stems from particle theories, notably Grand Unified Theories and superstring theories, that predict either the existence or the possibility of magnetic monopoles.

Despite systematic searches since 1931, as of 2007, magnetic monopoles have never been observed.[1] It therefore remains possible that monopoles do not exist at all. The failure of given experiments to find magnetic monopoles also places constraints on their possible properties and hence on the physical theories that predict them. Some current models suggest that while magnetic monopoles could exist, they are so massive that they may never be observed in practice."




"Think of the FE as a empty spool of thread. The NP sits over the top spindle hole; the SP over the bottom spindle pole. The line travel between the poles over the surface of the spool, radiating equal and having equal strength at every "latitude"."
(This was agreed on and proposed by a REer; it's his quote)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 12:56:44 PM by divito the truthist »
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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2007, 01:08:03 PM »
That's a very very interesting idea, the spool of thread, but it also poses certain problems... However, I find it interesting because it does not deviate significantly from the idea of a sphere. However the question is, what one earth is the center bit made of! In objects of relatively small(by small I mean human proportions), such a device is possible. However, when one gets large enough so that the gravitational constant G is no longer a significant barrier, one needs an incredibly strong material to prevent crumpling into a more stable object. What is this material? And remember, at one point, if there is a core, that area is going to be very weak due to the rather sad fact of liquid dynamics. About monopoles, too large means that you'll never see them, meaning that it would have to be on a cosmic scale, and they're properties would be easily observed. It would also mean that there would be no south pole.

Sadly, the monopole theory doesn't work(believe me, I wish it was true, they have lots of useful applications that would be cool if they existed). You're best hope is some sort of thing similar to how spherical Earth gets its field. GUT theories and TOE theories(yes, I know those are repeated phrases there, but it helps with clarification), predict their possibility, but if they exist there, why can't we create them, or at least dig some up? If there are monopoles there, we should be able to scale down into the spool's center, and extract some monopoles. That would help your theory a lot.

I have heard theories of dark matter interfering with gravity; sadly, that doesn't do anything. All dark matter would do is help the earth on its way to crumpling. Gravity, unlike magnetism, has only one charge. Nice discussion though, nonetheless.

Some people claim that scientists hate the flat earth theory. That's not exactly true. If flat earth theory really was true, there would be fantastic possibilities in the applications of such wonder forces. If dark matter or dark energy really was so close, it would be every physicists dream to grab some and study it. Occam's razor merely states that the simplest explanation is the best, and round earth is the simplest. Nonetheless, gedankenexperiments are fun, and I enjoy plaing with them.
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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2007, 01:19:01 PM »
What is this material?

I wish I knew. Even then, Dark Energy could be possibly affecting the gravitation. Less likely, but it's an idea.

About monopoles, too large means that you'll never see them, meaning that it would have to be on a cosmic scale, and they're properties would be easily observed.[/quote]

So, not the Earth's size?
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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2007, 01:51:15 PM »
What is this material?

I wish I knew. Even then, Dark Energy could be possibly affecting the gravitation. Less likely, but it's an idea.

About monopoles, too large means that you'll never see them, meaning that it would have to be on a cosmic scale, and they're properties would be easily observed.

So, not the Earth's size?

Well, its possible, I admit, that monopoles exist, but the earth would have distinct properties if it was one. For example, how do we explain the south magnetic pole? Another monopole? They would just combine to form a single bar magnet, and the question then arises; why do we not observe the earth's magnetic pole constantly waning due to degaussment? There is no power to produce it, so it would inevitably wane. Instead, we see it waxing and waning, and occasionally reversing(this has been proven with geologic evidence near trenches, a very fascinating discovery), which leaves us with the core theory as your only hope. Also, I was wondering where exactly the spindle is, because I'm confused with the spindle theory upon further thought. We have been to the south pole, how did we not notice getting off the flat surface on top? Or is this more conspiracy? Because honestly, I enjoy debating, but whenever someone throws up conspiracy, it irritates me. I wouldn't mind this theory but for the whole "coverup" idea. I would be fine if you thought things were mistaken, heck maybe NASA was subject to optical illusion, but really, the idea of a coverup is lunacy. Why not just tell people the earth is flat and go back to bed? Its not exactly a big secret, like nanobots controlling the world...

Anyway, this "unobtanium" that holds the earth together, as I shall refer to it from now on, would be near mystical in its properties. Why the secrecy over it? Why not just learn its properties, and have the most indestructible materials in the world? I just don't like the idea over this theory being untestable, because a new and yet more complex explanation is found to counter every argument. Also, let us not forget the more mundane proof of ships on the horizon. Say what you will, but its been observed experimentally, and it is easy to find; heck, one person on this forum did it. I still vote for the choice of Occam's Razor: Round Earth Theory.

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot. In the spindle theory, if we all live on the top, where do we get seasons? If it were like that, it'd be nearly all like Alaska: half of the year the sun never sets, the other half, barely any sun at all. Not pleasant.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 01:58:39 PM by fshy94 »
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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2007, 02:08:55 PM »
So, did you even read the FAQ?


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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2007, 02:12:29 PM »
Saw no need, seeing as so many of you disagree with the FAQ on so many points. Heck, it seems like everyone here has their own flat earth theory. A little consistency in ideas needs to be developed before I read a FAQ about a theory who's proponents don't agree over basic points(a little disagreement is fine, but it seems like there's a flat earth theory, a spindle theory, each with their own mix of dark matter, optical illusions, conspiracy theories, dark energy, antimatter, and pretty much everything fancy-sounding under the sun, regardless of what those things actually...do.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2007, 02:14:25 PM »
In the FAQ there is a nice little section on magnetism and the FE.  You were asked to read it before you posted.  This is not your site, you are not immune to the rules. 


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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2007, 02:21:32 PM »
Just read em. Still doesn't counter my first argument, about the z direction. The magnetic field would appear above and below the center of the earth, not at the center and at the ends.
Proof the Earth is round!
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2007, 02:24:17 PM »
Sure it would.  I have no idea what you are envisioning.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2007, 02:29:47 PM »
I think there's a good deal of confusion regarding what is the flat earth theory itself. I've heard everything from spindle theories, to the old one I'd envisioned. I'm going to start a new thread for flat earther's to draw a simple picture of the way they believe the earth to exist.
Proof the Earth is round!
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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2007, 02:31:37 PM »
Just keep it here if you are going to involve magnetism.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2007, 02:32:37 PM »
I'm not. I'm just going to ask every Flat Earther willing to draw a picture of how they think the Earth looks like. I'm interested if there is unanimity in this.
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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2007, 05:26:43 PM »
Oh, and I couldn't resist: Please explain magnetic reversals in flat earth theory. Monopoles won't cover it. Neither will the core idea, because remember, the Ice Wall isn't the South pole!
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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2007, 05:33:38 PM »
The ice wall is not the south pole, it is the furthest south you can follow the magnetic field lines and this is where they become vertical.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2007, 05:34:49 PM »
Did you read me? I said, assuming that what you said is true, how do you explain magnetic reversals having the effect of sticking the north pole on Antarctica?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2007, 05:36:48 PM »
The South Pole is beneath the North Pole.




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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2007, 05:39:29 PM »
Tom, Your crimes, numerous in quantity, include the inability to read, the inability to look things up, and most heinously, the inability to think. Therefore, Tom Bishop, I sentence you to no less than a lifetime of ignorance. May logic have mercy on your soul.
Proof the Earth is round!
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2007, 05:43:58 PM »
Did you read me? I said, assuming that what you said is true, how do you explain magnetic reversals having the effect of sticking the north pole on Antarctica?
Did you read me?  THERE IS NO POLE IN THE ANTARCTIC!


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2007, 05:47:17 PM »
Assuming you are correct, NOT NOW!!!! However, there is the odd phenomenon known as geomagnetic reversals, during which time, the current north pole ends up at the south pole. Do you acknowledge that phenomenon, and if you do, how do you explain it? If you don't, how many freaking members of this conspiracy are there!
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2007, 05:52:18 PM »
Your reply makes no sense.  There is no pole in the Antarctic, ever, on the FE.  The poles are free to reverse in the same manner as they do in the RE.  Any reversal will result in the proper alignment of the field at the center and edges of the FE.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2007, 05:57:05 PM »
Oh OK, so the evidence of a pole existing on the south doesn't happen. OK, tell me, why are there trips to Antarctica? From Ushuaia(I think thats how its spelled) in South America? Won't the military shut down the little organization to protect their Ice Wall?

Here's one:

http://www.antarcticconnection.com/antarctic/travel/index.shtml
Proof the Earth is round!
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2007, 05:59:03 PM »
OK, tell me, why are there trips to Antarctica?
Because people are crazy enough to pay money to freeze their asses and look at snow.  I fail to see how that is relevant to our discussion on magnetism, however.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2007, 06:00:39 PM »
I thought that there was no Antarctica, only a great Ice Wall guarded by men in uniform?
Proof the Earth is round!
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2007, 06:01:37 PM »
Antarctica is the ice wall.  Did you read the rest of the FAQ?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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fshy94

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2007, 06:02:32 PM »
Yes, I did. I don't think there were men in uniform on that travel page. Won't they be worried someone will take a peek down and notice a very jagged edge in the world?
Proof the Earth is round!
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Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Poles and Magnetism...
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2007, 08:20:33 PM »
Obviously the conspiracy must let people travel to Antarctica.  They just don't let them go far enough.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson