What Happened on the Moon?

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Tom Bishop

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What Happened on the Moon?
« on: December 17, 2007, 07:53:43 PM »
What Happened on the Moon?
a documentary by David Percy

This is one of the better documentaries which exposes NASA as a fraud organization. It's a British analysis of the Apollo missions. This movie never really became popular in America. It's now available in full here on Google Video. Many of the arguments in the documentary are inadmissible and cannot be satisfactory explained away.

From the summary on the DVD: "New evidence clearly suggests that NASA hoaxed pictures allegedly taken on the lunar surface. These findings are supported by analysis and the testimony of experts from various disciplines, including photographer/filmmaker David S. Percy ARPS and physicist David Groves, PhD"

Watch Part 1 of 2

Especially interesting here is the argument presented at the 1:35 hour mark of Part 1 which deals with the reflection of the sun off of the astronaut's convex visors. When the diameter of the reflected sun is compared to the diameter of sun reflections from other space missions we find there are clear and irrefutable discrepancies which should not exist.

Next I'll point your interest to the 2:00 hour mark in Part 1. There is no satisfactory explanation for the wire-support argument. There are pings of light directly above the heads of astronauts where a wire momentarily catches the light of the studio lighting. Additionally, the weight distribution of the astronauts in some scenes are especially hard to explain. Considering the NASA video data presented in this section I feel that there is no other conclusion a person could arrive at. The Apollo astronauts were using wire supports.

Watch part 2 of 2

In this second part, I'll direct your attention to the 54:30 minute mark where a Government Contractor describes the LEM construction. NASA apparently submitted a 110 page document proposal for the 6.9 billion dollar construction of the Lunar Lander. This is in direct contrast to similar sized government proposals which can be eighty thousand pages in length.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 08:27:32 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Trekky0623

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Re: Apollo Documentaries
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2007, 07:56:06 PM »
I've watched this.  It's pretty good.  I'll have to watch it again, though, in order to discuss it.

*clicks link*

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Trekky0623

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2007, 08:20:45 PM »
It's funny how the host pretends like he's there with the prerecorded interviewees.

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cbarnett97

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2007, 08:49:44 PM »
Here is another really good site.

http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Trekky0623

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 08:50:54 PM »
Part 1: Photography

Argument 1: Blowing Flag

Even in the footage in this video, you can see how the top of the flag never moves.  The moon flag had a metal rod going through the top of the flag so that it would look as if it were standing up in the wind.  Without it, the flag would just flop.

Argument 2: Jump Salute

This is actually a good argument, but it has a flaw.  The camera that is filming is point SLIGHTLY UP at the astronaut, which means that the back of his pack may have been covering the upraised flap, which can clearly be seen in the straight on view from the picture taking the shot.  Also, at the bottom of his jump in the film, you can see a small white object bounce up on top of his pack.  The flap?  Possibly.
As for why the flap on the oxygen purge system is unfastened, this flap is not actually necessary.  It can do its job fine without the flap.  And also, John Young, the saluting astronaut, had to make a hasty donning of the suit because of a late landing.
And finally (drumroll), this is not the correct flap.  On the system, there are two flaps, a front and a rear.  The front is unfastened, but the rear is fastened, making the front stand up.  Therefore, the system isn't completely undone.  It has one out of two flaps.



I shall be back...

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GG-Xtreme

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2007, 08:59:33 PM »
I saw that before, it's actually pretty good, although the does't prove or disprove anything about FE.

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cbarnett97

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2007, 09:03:28 PM »
My favorite thing about the moon landing is the fact of all of the moon rocks we brought back
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Trekky0623

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2007, 09:22:32 PM »
Argument 3: Apollo Earth Footage

No response at the moment.  Most I can say is that most of the conclusions of speculation.

Argument 4: Cross hairs

In the photos where the cross hairs are covered, it is behind a bright white object.  In film, bright white bleeds, especially onto adjacent black parts.  Therefore the object was not in front of the cross hairs, but instead the white part bled over the black.

As for why they are there, the can help measure somewhat.  And plus, this really isn't even a disproof.  So what if we don't know the exact reason for the cross hairs?

If you have two photos of the same object, you could use the cross hairs to measure distances.

Argument 5: Shadows

In the photo with the LEM, the shadow of the LEM cannot be accurately calculated.  IT does not have to be due east, in the 2D photo, the shadow of the LEM could easily be at the same angle as the rocks, you just can't tell at the distance.  The lines drawn are just rough guesses.  The LEM shadow could be facing at an angle, it just looks horizontal because of the distance, so the angle in the photo is distorted on the 2D photograph.

Again, it can be easily be seen in the digging picture that the rocks' shadows could be easily going in the same direction as the astronauts, the horizontal line is just a guess.  Also, he rock is blocking part of its shadow.  Also, we don not know the exact shape of the rocks, and from the 2D picture, cannot tell the exact type of shadow they would cast or if th shadow is hidden by the rock itself.


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Optimus Prime

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2007, 10:39:20 PM »
I will have to watch this particular footage to be sure, but if it's what I think it is... the 'wires' the glint for a second above one of the astronauts, and debatable over the other.... Ever hear of antennas? lol Just look at the shots and you see the glint dies out after a bit. Can't go any higher than what's sticking up out of your pack. ;D


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GazMcB

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2007, 06:05:04 AM »
I won't bother watching this on this computer because there is no sound. But for every theory I've heard before as to why it looks like a fake, I've read a completely logical explanation.  Shouldn't this thread be in the general discussion forum, or in everything else?

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Midnight

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2007, 10:51:04 AM »
Tom, you have outdone yourself.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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cpt_bthimes

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2007, 11:56:26 AM »
What Happened on the Moon?
a documentary by David Percy

interesting.  no wait, i mean the other thing: tedious.

are you *serious*, bishop?  this crap has been so thoroughly debunked time and time again.  the debate has been over for five years now.  i've seen all of the major "moon landing debunked" videos.  and i've provided you multiple independent analyses which make it clear as the nose on the ugly face of your ten year-old avatar picture (a face and nose which are much uglier now).

i grow tired and agitated of having to post these rebuttals.  don't you grow tired of posting your ridiculous drivel?  every time you post about the "moon landing hoax", i will post your complete spanking.


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Midnight

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2007, 01:25:30 PM »
I agree with Beatle Bailey, this thread is a cartoon.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2007, 02:10:43 PM »
Quote
interesting.  no wait, i mean the other thing: tedious.

are you *serious*, bishop?  this crap has been so thoroughly debunked time and time again.  the debate has been over for five years now.  i've seen all of the major "moon landing debunked" videos.  and i've provided you multiple independent analyses which make it clear as the nose on the ugly face of your ten year-old avatar picture (a face and nose which are much uglier now).

None of those websites address any of the three points I raised in post one of this thread.

You lose.

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Midnight

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2007, 02:11:48 PM »
Quote
interesting.  no wait, i mean the other thing: tedious.

are you *serious*, bishop?  this crap has been so thoroughly debunked time and time again.  the debate has been over for five years now.  i've seen all of the major "moon landing debunked" videos.  and i've provided you multiple independent analyses which make it clear as the nose on the ugly face of your ten year-old avatar picture (a face and nose which are much uglier now).

None of those websites address the three points I raised in post one of this thread.

You lose.

You didn't prove or posit a point in the first place, sweetheart. :-*
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2007, 02:12:43 PM »
Quote
Especially interesting here is the argument presented at the 1:35 hour mark of Part 1 which deals with the reflection of the sun off of the astronaut's convex visors. When the diameter of the reflected sun is compared to the diameter of sun reflections from other space missions we find there are clear and irrefutable discrepancies which should not exist.

Next I'll point your interest to the 2:00 hour mark in Part 1. There is no satisfactory explanation for the wire-support argument. There are pings of light directly above the heads of astronauts where a wire momentarily catches the light of the studio lighting. Additionally, the weight distribution of the astronauts in some scenes are especially hard to explain. Considering the NASA video data presented in this section I feel that there is no other conclusion a person could arrive at. The Apollo astronauts were using wire supports.

In this second part, I'll direct your attention to the 54:30 minute mark where a Government Contractor describes the LEM construction. NASA apparently submitted a 110 page document proposal for the 6.9 billion dollar construction of the Lunar Lander. This is in direct contrast to similar sized government proposals which can be eighty thousand pages in length.

I still don't see a explanation, coherent or otherwise, for these three points.

Since these points are unexplainable it means that the Apollo Missions were a hoax.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 02:14:15 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Midnight

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2007, 02:14:10 PM »
No, that means you cannot prove that, and you hate it.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2007, 02:39:28 PM »
Tom Bishop is Midnight! :o

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Midnight

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2007, 02:42:54 PM »
If that were the case, I wouldn't be perfect.

Unfortunately for you, that is anathema to established norms.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2007, 03:16:32 PM »
If that were the case, I wouldn't be perfect.

Unfortunately for you, that is anathema to established norms.

So it's completely possible?  Is this you admitting?

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Midnight

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2007, 03:17:25 PM »
Read my comment again a little slower.

I have standards. Tom has google.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2007, 03:26:53 PM »
Read my comment again a little slower.

I have standards. Tom has google.

They're the same thing.  Thanks.

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Midnight

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2007, 03:35:02 PM »
Your wit is failing.

I still believe in you, however.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Trekky0623

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2007, 05:26:48 PM »
Quote
Especially interesting here is the argument presented at the 1:35 hour mark of Part 1 which deals with the reflection of the sun off of the astronaut's convex visors. When the diameter of the reflected sun is compared to the diameter of sun reflections from other space missions we find there are clear and irrefutable discrepancies which should not exist.

Next I'll point your interest to the 2:00 hour mark in Part 1. There is no satisfactory explanation for the wire-support argument. There are pings of light directly above the heads of astronauts where a wire momentarily catches the light of the studio lighting. Additionally, the weight distribution of the astronauts in some scenes are especially hard to explain. Considering the NASA video data presented in this section I feel that there is no other conclusion a person could arrive at. The Apollo astronauts were using wire supports.

In this second part, I'll direct your attention to the 54:30 minute mark where a Government Contractor describes the LEM construction. NASA apparently submitted a 110 page document proposal for the 6.9 billion dollar construction of the Lunar Lander. This is in direct contrast to similar sized government proposals which can be eighty thousand pages in length.

I still don't see a explanation, coherent or otherwise, for these three points.

Since these points are unexplainable it means that the Apollo Missions were a hoax.

I'm going in order, an I haven't gotten there yet.  I'll watch more tonight around 11:00 (EST)ish.

Wire: Possible antennae.
Why is giving a short report evidence against traveling to the moon?  Sure, it's lazy and sloppy, but is not evidence.

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cpt_bthimes

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2007, 10:34:18 PM »
Wire: Possible antennae.
Why is giving a short report evidence against traveling to the moon?  Sure, it's lazy and sloppy, but is not evidence.

the wire (if it's the same "wire" i'm thinking of), has been thoroughly debunked as an artifact of digital video compression along 8x8 or 16x16 pixel blocks (don't remember which), which is how most video codecs do their compression.  it's not in the analog video.  there are dozens of other "wires" in the same scene, all exactly aligned along 16x16 grid.  all over the dirt, etc.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2007, 06:31:04 PM »
Quote
Wire: Possible antennae.

NASA's space suits didn't have antennas.

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Trekky0623

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2007, 08:44:43 PM »
Wire: Possible antennae.
Why is giving a short report evidence against traveling to the moon?  Sure, it's lazy and sloppy, but is not evidence.

the wire (if it's the same "wire" i'm thinking of), has been thoroughly debunked as an artifact of digital video compression along 8x8 or 16x16 pixel blocks (don't remember which), which is how most video codecs do their compression.  it's not in the analog video.  there are dozens of other "wires" in the same scene, all exactly aligned along 16x16 grid.  all over the dirt, etc.

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Trekky0623

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2007, 10:25:45 PM »
Argument 6: "C" Rock
The "c" has been confirmed to be a hair or other particle that was stuck on the picture when it was scanned.  Plus why would you use singe letters to denote props?  That gives you 26 props.

Argument 7: Silhouettes
Reflection.  On the moon, the reflection from the sun's light (which is brighter, there is no atmosphere to filter it) is bright enough to read a newspaper.

Argument 8: Aldrin Shot

1) Uneven Lighting: What is happening here is that, since the Moon is smaller than the Earth, the background is farther away than the foreground and curves downward.  This causes uneven lighting because the sun is on the horizon.  Also, Aldrin is being looked down upon, meaning he is in a depressed area, making uneven lighting.

2) Aldrin in Shadow: Since Aldrin is in a depressed area, the light behind him is bouncing off the raised part in front and illuminating him.  Also, the covering on the LEM reflects 50% of sunlight, illuminating Aldrin.

3) Camera Location: Why is this a problem?  Armstrong said he took the photo while Aldrin was in a depression.  And with the reflection in the visor (which is curved and unreliable), you cannot accurately determine where the camera is placed.

4) Reticules: Umm, images can be cropped...

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Optimus Prime

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2007, 01:18:59 AM »
Quote
Wire: Possible antennae.

NASA's space suits didn't have antennas.

Excuse me? I think you must be thinking of current suits... back then they indeed had an aluminium shaft, omnidirectional antenna with a high gain core.  Radio technology was not the same then as it is now and to conserve energy in the suit, the antenna was useful in allowing very low wattage transmissions by providing several dB of gain.



 
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Trekky0623

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Re: What Happened on the Moon?
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2007, 03:45:12 AM »
Quote
Wire: Possible antennae.

NASA's space suits didn't have antennas.

Excuse me? I think you must be thinking of current suits... back then they indeed had an aluminium shaft, omnidirectional antenna with a high gain core.  Radio technology was not the same then as it is now and to conserve energy in the suit, the antenna was useful in allowing very low wattage transmissions by providing several dB of gain.



 

Actually, they were flat with one side black and one white.