Ok, ok, I got one

So you flat earth-ers believe this whole world-wide conspiracy is currently NASA's doing and the reason for that is enormous fundings by a gullible government .. Ok let's skip the part where it would be practically impossible to hide the truth from such a powerful organization or brain-washing all the government officials who supervise their work ... let's pretend for the sake of argument that that part is plausible. Then what about the Russian space program during the cold war. What would the soviet space organization - or what ever it's called - have to gain from this? How could they too manage to deceive the soviet government, and why would they risk doing so? I doubt the Russian scientists would be able substract more than their usual salary considering how tight citizens were monitored during the communist period.

Well....

The Russians were actually the first nation to start a Space Program Conspiracy. Russia's Cold War motivation was to create the illusion of the militaristic domination of space. The US Government simply caught on and created their own conspiracy to compete.

In reality space travel is technologically impossible. Man has never been to space.

The motivation of the Conspiracy is a militaristic one. This is why all astronauts are members of the military. Once you create an illusion of the ability to reach space no other nation will touch you. There is no real research going on at NASA. It's a highly funded propaganda studio designed to create the illusion of America's grasp on space travel. A Saturn Rocket is 95% identical to an ICBM, after all.

The Russians were actually the first nation to start a Space Program Conspiracy. Russia's Cold War motivation was to create the illusion of the military domination of space. The US Government simply caught on and created their own conspiracy to compete.

In reality space travel is technologically impossible. Man has never been to space.

The motivation of the Conspiracy is a militaristic one. This is why all astronauts are members of the military. Once you create an illusion of the ability to reach space no other nation will touch you. There is no real research going on at NASA. It's a highly funded propaganda studio designed to create the illusion of America's grasp on space travel. A Saturn Rocket is 95% identical to an ICBM, after all.

So the impetus was keeping the peace by creating an illusion of a balance of power? 

So the impetus was keeping the peace by creating an illusion of a balance of power?

Exactly. Why would they claim dominance over something their enemy knows doesn't exist? If the race for space flight was mainly meant for intimidation, how would that have any effect on the western nations?

The governments were really just pawns in the global conspiracy's game.  Only the members of the conspiracy and those who work for them (whether they are technically on the government's payroll or not) know about the true shape of the earth and the impossibility of spaceflight.  When it was discovered that sustained spaceflight was impossible, it was hidden from the Soviet government so the conspiracy could profit on the perception that spaceflight is possible, and the perceived need to "win" the space race to prove global superiority.  The same paradigm occurred when the Americans discovered the same thing; those involved with the initial attempts at spaceflight joined with the conspirators on the Russian side, both governments being completely oblivious to the intrigue that was developing around them.  Since the 60s, the perception that being able to make it into space was important blinded the governments to the truth about the impossibility of spaceflight, and both were willing to pour massive budgets into making it a reality, budgets that they didn't know actually went towards sophisticated technology that allowed the  conspirators to fake spaceflight and pictures of space, while having plenty left over to pay those few who knew the truth, and make a tidy profit themselves.

I'm glad we cleared that subject up.

The problem is, now many FE theorists believe sustained space flight is possible, albeit not to the moon necessarily, however some even believe that's possible also. It just doesn't negate that the earth is flat.

Personally I can't imagine how space flight is not possible with the advent of the numerous probes, rovers, satellites, and the blatantly visible ISS that anyone can see when it passes over them with even a reasonable telescope. You can see it as a shiny object with the naked eye for heaven's sake! (As scheduled, every time. And - if you want to claim that's just a diversion of some kind - go grab a telescope. Yep, it's really up there, along with Hubble, OSCAR and the rest.)

Not to mention, regardless of many arguments on this form who have neglected my arguments in the past... gps and satellite television are simply not possible without the use of actual satellites. You can place them in whateve kind of orbit you wish, certainly. However they have to exist for these systems to work. A system of towers just won't cut the mustard so to speak.

The ISS is nothing more than a sophisticated stratalite.

The ISS is nothing more than a sophisticated stratalite.

Whatever... it's huge, has many compartments / modules, and has people in it. So whatever you want to call it. It's got lots of cool stuff in it and "orbits" or "circles" the earth.

Quote from: The Great God Roundy on December 15, 2007, 03:31:14 PM

The ISS is nothing more than a sophisticated stratalite.

Whatever... it's huge, has many compartments / modules, and has people in it. So whatever you want to call it. It's got lots of cool stuff in it and "orbits" or "circles" the earth.

That's what the conspiracy wants you to think.  I've never seen any people in it when observing it from the ground.

Get a Ham radio license ($7), have a garage sale or sell some of those old movies you never watch anymore then get a 2m radio ($50 or so at a Ham-fest if you look, $150+ new), then talk to them when they go by. (Details if you're actually interested. Always glad to help out someone interested in Amateur Radio) It will take you a while to get your chance, but hey... it might be worth it to prove your theory to yourself so you don't have to go on blind faith of it.

I know the space shuttle goes up there for cetain, I got to talk to them once years ago. And no, it couldn't have been an earth based station because I was hooked up to my directional antenna, and had a couple of other radios going on different omni-directional antennas. So I should have gotten the signal on all three radios if it was ground based.

Sorry, but as for the ISS and Space Shuttle, I'm not budging... I know for a fact, without a doubt that they make it into orbit, and the shuttle stays up there long enough to make many contacts before touching down. The ISS is obvious that it stays up there, and although I don't have a QSO card from them yet, many others do. So indeed, people inhabit the ISS. Unfortunately for FE, not all video footage is fake, nor all radio transmissions earth based.

You don't even have to believe in a round earth I don't suppose. Why is there any reason for there not to be people on the ISS anyway?

I know for a fact, without a doubt that they make it into orbit, and the shuttle stays up there long enough to make many contacts before touching down.

How do you know that for a fact, exactly?

Quote

I know for a fact, without a doubt that they make it into orbit, and the shuttle stays up there long enough to make many contacts before touching down.

How do you know that for a fact, exactly?

The same way you know your facts Tom. Direct observation and experimentation. I saw, heard, observed and witnessed factual data that I myself experienced. There is no other way to have received the information I did by any means other than what actually transpired, otherwise I would be open to debate. Simple.

I already gave you and the others an out that you could use whatever methods you choose regarding the objects and how they orbit, but the fact remains that people were and continue to be in orbit around the Earth.

It's just a fact. If you'd rather not take my word for it. Go and find a local HAM operator in  your city. Guarnateed there will be one, probably even a club. They will be happy to explain it, give you diagrams, and even let you listen in and use equipment if you like. We're a very thought provoking, experimentive, and open-minded bunch of people all over the world.

OP

Hams are wonderful people, my father for one. Grew up listening to conversations from all over. I always liked the ones with some lonely radio operator at sea. 

In reality space travel is technologically impossible. Man has never been to space.

Were you not the one just the other day showing video of the Apollo missions?

This is why all astronauts are members of the military.

Wrong!
The first U.S. astronauts were selected in 1959, before human spaceflight operations began. NASA asked the military services to provide a list of personnel who met specific qualifications. After stringent screening, NASA announced its selection of seven men, all pilots, as the first American astronauts. NASA has selected 18 more groups of astronauts since the “Original Seven.” The backgrounds of NASA’s latest group of Astronaut Candidates include schoolteachers, doctors, scientist, and engineers.
http://www.nasajobs.nasa.gov/astronauts/default.htm

There is no real research going on at NASA.

So the shuttles they launch are done half-assed? No math or construction planning? No aeronautical engineering? 

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 15, 2007, 02:10:58 PM

There is no real research going on at NASA.

So the shuttles they launch are done half-assed? No math or construction planning? No aeronautical engineering? 

Any research going on at NASA is solely to perpetuate the Conspiracy and the illusion of America's militaristic domination of space.

That's a rather large and unverifiable assumption that you had no need for. It doesn't help prove FE to claim this.

Not to mention, the shuttle itself actually does "orbit" the Earth. I don't know how many times I've offered this up now Tom and whoever else... but use whatever theory you want to keep things aloft in whatever model works for FE. The problem with arguing the Space Shuttle never makes it into space, and then never orbits it, is that there are too many people in the public that are able to see it, and communicate with it while it is up there during it's mission, then not when it comes back.

When you take a directional antenna and point it at the shuttle overhead as it goes by, you will be able to hear communications in that small area as you track them. Waver too far on either side, and you lose them, end of story. Same goes for the ISS.

If you use fantastic antennas and big base stations, you can hear them from near-horizon to near-horizon. But the easiest way to debunk this myth of the Shuttle never making it into space is to use a simple directional antenna with a small radio so you must be on target to get your signal. Very, very, very easy to do and uber-cheap compared to your average experiments.

Unless you can provide an alternate explanation for a moving contact going at that speed accross the sky at that altitude (or even near abouts) then I'm all ears.

So you flat earth-ers believe this whole world-wide conspiracy is currently NASA's doing and the reason for that is enormous fundings by a gullible government

Right.

.. Ok let's skip the part where it would be practically impossible to hide the truth from such a powerful organization or brain-washing all the government officials who supervise their work ...

Please explain why is that such a impossibility.

let's pretend for the sake of argument that that part is plausible.

No, you don't need to pretend something when it is already real.

Then what about the Russian space program during the cold war.

Conspiracy.

What would the soviet space organization - or what ever it's called - have to gain from this?

Money.

How could they too manage to deceive the soviet government, and why would they risk doing so?

What?

I doubt the Russian scientists would be able substract more than their usual salary considering how tight citizens were monitored during the communist period.

And?