bishop: what if you saw islands disappear?

hey bishop.  a hypothetical question for you.

let's say you were to take a visit to san francisco on a clear day.  and drive north across the golden gate bridge.  then you were to take the sausalito exit, and follow the signs to the golden gate national recreation area.  and drive up conzelman rd.  up to hawk hill, then down the one way street towards the lighthouse.

with me so far?

good.  now, when you first round the corner from hawk hill, you look southwest out to sea, and see the farallon islands.

as you continue driving down the steep hill, you (hypothetically of course) notice a strange thing: the islands seem to be sinking.

at some point (hypothetically), you can barely see the highest point of the islands.

you continue driving to ft chronkite and take a walk on rodeo beach, and you can't see the island at all any more.  perplexed (hypothetically), you hike up the hill on the south side of the beach.  nothing.  so you keep hiking - then you see the tip of the tallest point.  you keep hiking up, and the island gradually reveals itself.

if - if - that were to play out like that, what would you think?

He'd probably take out his magical telescope.

He'd probably take out his magical telescope.

"X-Ray" Telescope

if - if - that were to play out like that, what would you think?

I would think that I was observing the sinking ship effect, which proves a Flat Earth.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17427.msg301580#msg301580

You guys have to admit, that was a dam slick answer.

oh, yes, he would lie to HIMSELF and deny the evidence of his OWN EYES in favor of his totally absurd BELIEF!!!!!

oh, yes, he would lie to HIMSELF and deny the evidence of his OWN EYES in favor of his totally absurd BELIEF!!!!!

His own eyes are telling him that the earth is flat. 

The Sinking ship effect does not "confirm" a flat earth.  It is possible on both a round earth and a flat earth.  The only problem is in flat earth theory you have to change the laws of perspective.

And, it's not really sinking, as you claim to have seen the ships come back when you look through a telescope.

if he was standing on the moon looking UP at earth, he would STILL say it looked flat to him!

if he was standing on the moon looking UP at earth, he would STILL say it looked flat to him!

I don't think he would strap himself to the bottom of the moon just so he was looking 'up' at the earth from the moon.

Quote

if - if - that were to play out like that, what would you think?

I would think that I was observing the sinking ship effect, which proves a Flat Earth.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17427.msg301580#msg301580

rowbotham.  got it.  you don't need to provide any links, just say "rowbotham".  all i need to know.  i've read more of his idiotic self-deluded, repeatedly disproven bs than i care to remember.

ok.  so as long as we are innocently toying with a hypothetical situation, let me add this: you have at your disposal on this little adventure, a telephoto lens, military-grade gyrostabilized binoculars, and/or a telescope of any power you wish.  when you view the islands through high magnification, you can see it clearly and fully at the top of the hill, you can only see the top half from further down the hill, and you can't see it at all from the shore.

does that change anything, hypothetically?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on November 30, 2007, 04:15:05 PM

Quote

if - if - that were to play out like that, what would you think?

I would think that I was observing the sinking ship effect, which proves a Flat Earth.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17427.msg301580#msg301580

rowbotham.  got it.  you don't need to provide any links, just say "rowbotham".  all i need to know.  i've read more of his idiotic self-deluded, repeatedly disproven bs than i care to remember.

ok.  so as long as we are innocently toying with a hypothetical situation, let me add this: you have at your disposal on this little adventure, a telephoto lens, military-grade gyrostabilized binoculars, and/or a telescope of any power you wish.  when you view the islands through high magnification, you can see it clearly and fully at the top of the hill, you can only see the top half from further down the hill, and you can't see it at all from the shore.

does that change anything, hypothetically?

Tom's reply would be the waves of the ocean are blocking his vision.

Quote from: cpt_bthimes on November 30, 2007, 07:29:06 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on November 30, 2007, 04:15:05 PM

Quote

if - if - that were to play out like that, what would you think?

I would think that I was observing the sinking ship effect, which proves a Flat Earth.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17427.msg301580#msg301580

rowbotham.  got it.  you don't need to provide any links, just say "rowbotham".  all i need to know.  i've read more of his idiotic self-deluded, repeatedly disproven bs than i care to remember.

ok.  so as long as we are innocently toying with a hypothetical situation, let me add this: you have at your disposal on this little adventure, a telephoto lens, military-grade gyrostabilized binoculars, and/or a telescope of any power you wish.  when you view the islands through high magnification, you can see it clearly and fully at the top of the hill, you can only see the top half from further down the hill, and you can't see it at all from the shore.

does that change anything, hypothetically?

Tom's reply would be the waves of the ocean are blocking his vision.

So the farther down he gets, the bigger the waves are...

Quote from: Tom Dipshit on December 01, 2007, 05:52:34 AM

Quote from: cpt_bthimes on November 30, 2007, 07:29:06 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on November 30, 2007, 04:15:05 PM

Quote

if - if - that were to play out like that, what would you think?

I would think that I was observing the sinking ship effect, which proves a Flat Earth.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17427.msg301580#msg301580

rowbotham.  got it.  you don't need to provide any links, just say "rowbotham".  all i need to know.  i've read more of his idiotic self-deluded, repeatedly disproven bs than i care to remember.

ok.  so as long as we are innocently toying with a hypothetical situation, let me add this: you have at your disposal on this little adventure, a telephoto lens, military-grade gyrostabilized binoculars, and/or a telescope of any power you wish.  when you view the islands through high magnification, you can see it clearly and fully at the top of the hill, you can only see the top half from further down the hill, and you can't see it at all from the shore.

does that change anything, hypothetically?

Tom's reply would be the waves of the ocean are blocking his vision.

So the farther down he gets, the bigger the waves are...

Didn't Tom Bullshit once say that no matter the hight of where you are, a 40 foot wave will always block your vision?

Quote from: MayhemNeutral on December 01, 2007, 06:41:46 AM

Quote from: Tom Dipshit on December 01, 2007, 05:52:34 AM

Quote from: cpt_bthimes on November 30, 2007, 07:29:06 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on November 30, 2007, 04:15:05 PM

Quote

if - if - that were to play out like that, what would you think?

I would think that I was observing the sinking ship effect, which proves a Flat Earth.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17427.msg301580#msg301580

rowbotham.  got it.  you don't need to provide any links, just say "rowbotham".  all i need to know.  i've read more of his idiotic self-deluded, repeatedly disproven bs than i care to remember.

ok.  so as long as we are innocently toying with a hypothetical situation, let me add this: you have at your disposal on this little adventure, a telephoto lens, military-grade gyrostabilized binoculars, and/or a telescope of any power you wish.  when you view the islands through high magnification, you can see it clearly and fully at the top of the hill, you can only see the top half from further down the hill, and you can't see it at all from the shore.

does that change anything, hypothetically?

Tom's reply would be the waves of the ocean are blocking his vision.

So the farther down he gets, the bigger the waves are...

Didn't Tom Bullshit once say that no matter the hight of where you are, a 40 foot wave will always block your vision?

Dunno, but that sounds dumb.
Quote pyramids are fun.

Tom looking through a lens causes almost seven tsunamis a year.

YOU CAN HELP!!!  Call the Save the View foundation today to donate money.  Together we can prevent Tom from looking through any more telescopes and save hundreds of lives a year!

Quote

if - if - that were to play out like that, what would you think?

I would think that I was observing the sinking ship effect, which proves a Flat Earth.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17427.msg301580#msg301580

You're a troll, Mr Bishop.  I've decided.  No one is capable of have such a lack of judgment or be so blinkered unless they are either

• Insane
• Devoutly Religious
• An attention seeking fraud (troll)

You do seem to have religious convictions, but such devout believes lie with Earth Not a Globe instead of the bible.  You hang on every word of this pamphlet (or appear to) in exactly the same way as fundamentalist Christians do with the bible.

I feel better now.

P.S. I seem to remember EnaG does mention "scripture" somewhere, so may be you are in fact a christian, attempting to convert people (like the "conspiracy" in reverse may be... NO NO STOP IT!).

Quote from: Tom Bishop on November 30, 2007, 04:15:05 PM

Quote

if - if - that were to play out like that, what would you think?

I would think that I was observing the sinking ship effect, which proves a Flat Earth.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17427.msg301580#msg301580

You're a troll, Mr Bishop.  I've decided.  No one is capable of have such a lack of judgment or be so blinkered unless they are either

• Insane
• Devoutly Religious
• An attention seeking fraud (troll)

You do seem to have religious convictions, but such devout believes lie with Earth Not a Globe instead of the bible.  You hang on every word of this pamphlet (or appear to) in exactly the same way as fundamentalist Christians do with the bible.

I feel better now.

P.S. I seem to remember EnaG does mention "scripture" somewhere, so may be you are in fact a christian, attempting to convert people (like the "conspiracy" in reverse may be... NO NO STOP IT!).

LOL, obviously he's a troll. The best troll I've ever seen, to be honest.

Tom's reply would be the waves of the ocean are blocking his vision.

i guess there are alot of 320 ft. waves out there then!

bishop let me cut to the chase.  as everyone reading this thread (possibly even including yourself) has figured out, this isn't really a "hypothetical" situation.  every detail i have outlined is real and ridiculously easy to verify.  and my story is detailed with precise locations, and is not peppered with cute little anecdotal details that completely defy all common sense.

all you have to do is get your drunken fat ass into a vehicle, take a trip to the big city, get yourself across the golden gate bridge, and follow my directions from there.  and see for yourself.  take your telescope. 

and prepare to be schooled.

and you know what?  there's no better day than today.  i talked with my bay area sister earlier, and she said that from her vantage point it is cold, breezy and very clear.  (she was strangely silent about kids splashing in the ocean and sunbathers though.)  it's not every day you can see the islands from the bay area, so take advantage of this while you can, to spare us the excuses of the "weather isn't good enough" (or changes to rapidly...cough, cough...).

and guess what, the forecast for tomorrow for the sf coastal area is the same as today's.  which of course is typical of most of the north american pacific coast with it's stabilizing ocean current--odds are very high that the next day is going to be like the previous...which is why real estate is so expensive all up and down it even in far norcal where the weather is dependably less balmy.  it's the seasons that bring the big quarterly changes of dry, rainy, afternoon fog, etc...but you actually do know that to yourself, your pathetic whining about changing weather aside...)

so this is a direct challenge to all (three?) fe'ers.  get yourself to the sf bay area on a clear day--or anywhere that you can see over open ocean or large lake from between sea[/lake] level and, say, close to 1,000 ft higher for comparison, with a view to something around 300 feet or more, that is more than 20 miles out.  (for example the CN tower.)  take big, expensive binoculars, telescope, and/or alot of camera lens.  maybe your beliefs will be challenged by this earth-altering revelation (which is an impressive demonstration even for re'ers), maybe they won't.  maybe you'll explain it all away.  (after you see it.  unfortunately we already know what you think before.)

i'd wager money that username at least would take this challenge if it weren't too far away or expensive to get there (e.g. if he could take a quick day trip from monterrey).  bishop will just quote rowbotham and complain that the weather will change by the time he gets there.

bumpy.  who is willing to take this easy challenge.  if you do it, are not sufficiently impressed, and can furthermore explain the results away with something that makes sense, you might just gain a convert.

Bump.

...take a visit to san francisco on a clear day.  [many sunny winter days suiffice.]  and drive north across the golden gate bridge.  then...take the sausalito exit, and follow the signs to the golden gate national recreation area.  and drive up conzelman rd.  up to hawk hill, then down the one way street towards the lighthouse.

...when you first round the corner from hawk hill, ...look southwest out to sea, and [you will] see the farallon islands.

as you continue driving down the steep hill, you...[will] notice a strange thing: the islands [start disappearing beyond the horizon].

at [a certain] point...you [will] barely see the highest point of the islands.

...continue driving to ft chronkite and take a walk on rodeo beach, and you can't see the island at all any more.  perplexed, you hike up the [paved path and/or trails] on the south side of the beach.  nothing.  so you keep hiking - then you see the tip of the [island's] tallest point.  you keep hiking up, and the island gradually reveals itself.

(my original post edited to remove the hypotheticals.)

this is the farallon experiment.  i have done it twice formally (uncountable times informally).  with three devices of various [and variable] zoom levels including $1.5k 20x50 binoculars.  it is undeniable observational evidence of a round earth.  and even for re'ers, it is guaranteed to leave a lasting impression.

do not wast your, my, or our time trying to refute this with rowbotham posts, or without actually going yourself and doing it.  the challenge, as stated, is to go there and actually perform the experiment yourself.  then provide your eyewitness testimony.

username, what area of the country do you live in?  we already know bishop is too much of a chicken to try this.  he's afraid he might wind up actually inspecting his fragile little belief system.  but you, username, seem to legitimately or nominally be interested in what things actually are, rather than what you hope them to be.  i know you had a personal revelation of sorts that made you question the notion of a re.  maybe the farallon experiment will provide a personal revelation of a different sort?

I will be spending most of my time on a boat during my trip to the Southern "hemisphere".  I will record what I see.

I would think that I was observing the sinking ship effect, which proves a Flat Earth.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17427.msg301580#msg301580

The sinking ship effect does not prove a flat earth.  It may be explainable in terms of some FE model, but it does not prove FE, anymore than circumnavigation proves RE.

I will be spending most of my time on a boat during my trip to the Southern "hemisphere".  I will record what I see.

when are you leaving, where will you be, and when are you getting back?  i can't wait for you to get back and post your observations.  if you don't mind all the questions, what kind of boat?  what's the purpose?

just one favor: would you mind taking bishop with you?  i know nobody can stand him so it's alot to ask, but maybe the truth, observed first-hand, would get him to finally stop posting rowbotham scans.

humor aside, my first paragraph is sincere.

Quote from: Username on December 10, 2007, 11:20:18 AM

I will be spending most of my time on a boat during my trip to the Southern "hemisphere".  I will record what I see.

when are you leaving, where will you be, and when are you getting back?  i can't wait for you to get back and post your observations.  if you don't mind all the questions, what kind of boat?  what's the purpose?

just one favor: would you mind taking bishop with you?  i know nobody can stand him so it's alot to ask, but maybe the truth, observed first-hand, would get him to finally stop posting rowbotham scans.

humor aside, my first paragraph is sincere.

I'll be leaving in under 2 weeks and will be traveling along the east coast of Southern South America down to the Antarctic.  The main purpose is a vacation.  Some relatives were going and I thought it a good chance to tag along and see it first hand.

Quote from: cpt_bthimes on December 10, 2007, 11:28:40 AM

Quote from: Username on December 10, 2007, 11:20:18 AM

I will be spending most of my time on a boat during my trip to the Southern "hemisphere".  I will record what I see.

when are you leaving, where will you be, and when are you getting back?  i can't wait for you to get back and post your observations.  if you don't mind all the questions, what kind of boat?  what's the purpose?

just one favor: would you mind taking bishop with you?  i know nobody can stand him so it's alot to ask, but maybe the truth, observed first-hand, would get him to finally stop posting rowbotham scans.

humor aside, my first paragraph is sincere.

I'll be leaving in under 2 weeks and will be traveling along the east coast of Southern South America down to the Antarctic.  The main purpose is a vacation.  Some relatives were going and I thought it a good chance to tag along and see it first hand.

excellent.  sounds like a blast.  are you going to take a list of things you might be able to test, and what their outcomes should be on a re and fe?

I'm open to reasonable suggestions as far as that goes. 

I'm open to reasonable suggestions as far as that goes. 

i'll try and think of some that can be done within the margins of error of a boat.

one thing off the bat would be to watch a mountainous island or other landmass "rise up" out of the ocean as you approach it, assuming clear enough visibility...which on open water away from cities, you often get.  and if you knew in advance the location and elevation of the landmass, and your current position (e.g. if you trust gps and/or your navigator's dead reckoning), those might be revealing things to know.

my girlfriend is a sailor so i'll hit her up for some ideas.

if you get to land that is suitably hilly enough, and there is an island offshore, you can mimic the farallon experiment.  maybe if you know your ports of call in advance, you can find them on topographic maps to find a location suitable for the experiment.

may i recommend, if not already, investing in some high-powered, stabilized binoculars.  regular binoculars are practically worthless on most boats, except for aircraft carriers and ocean liners...