How.

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How.
« on: November 15, 2007, 05:33:29 PM »
I don't want to know why. I don't want to get a bunch of reasons why everyone else is wrong. Those are signs of unknowing. I just want to know how.

How is it that one can fly around the world and not have to stop and go back? How is it that one can go into space and watch the earth rotate from a geosynchronous orbit? How can one travel the equator and have both a magnetic and polar north that are consistent with a globe? How does one reach the edge of this flat earth? How does one find the north pole in the same place when travelling from anywhere on the earth?

If someone can answer these questions without straying to a topic of their own, then I will be most amazed.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: How.
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2007, 05:42:17 PM »
The FAQ is a great place to start if you want to know how.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: How.
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2007, 05:55:53 PM »
Unfortunately, the FAQ doesn't answer very many of my questions. It does, however, require me to be more specific.

How can both north and south be stationary points? Your FAQ says that the north is deep inside the earth. Your FAQ also says that if you travel south long enough, you will fall off the earth. However, your FAQ also has a map of the flat earth with South at the very center. If that is so, then South would be the stationary point on a compass, and North would be the very rim of the earth. If this is so, a compass would not be able to get a steady and constant reading of North and South. There would be a second reading of North coming from behind the Southern reading, and the compass wouldn't be able to stay constant. Having built compasses, I know this isn't true.

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: How.
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2007, 06:03:24 PM »
No, the Southernmost part is the rim, the North is the hub, or the center. What picture shows South as the center?

~D-Draw

Re: How.
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2007, 06:11:09 PM »
That was my mistake, as the FAQ diagram was not in fact labelled clearly.

Yet, my previous question of North and South still stands, in the reverse.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: How.
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2007, 06:12:16 PM »
Um... the Arctic is in the center and Antarctica is around the rim in that picture.  :-\
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: How.
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 06:17:19 PM »
Yes, but they are not clearly labelled. There is no map in the FAQ that clearly definies what orientation is believed.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: How.
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 06:34:59 PM »
You can't tell from the map that north is in the middle and south is on the outside?  ???
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: How.
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2007, 06:38:38 PM »
I have more questions.

"There is a vast ice wall that keeps the water where it is. The ice wall is roughly 150ft high. This also explains why you can find a vast plane of ice when you travel south."
"The Ice Wall is really a mountain range.  It just happens to be covered in ice and snow."

Those answers are contradictory, as mountain ranges are not 150 feet high.

In the FAQ, a question is asked about sunset. This answer is provided.
"It's a perspective effect.  Really, the sun is just getting farther away; it looks like it disappears because everything gets smaller and eventually disappears as it gets farther away."

Whoever wrote this knows nothing of perspective. This is essentially an answer from a preschooler. When the sun sets, it gets larger because of magnification in the atmosphere. That is the exact opposite of getting smaller.

You can't tell from the map that north is in the middle and south is on the outside?  ???

Which map are you referring to? The only obvious maps in the FAQ refer to the illogical movement of the sun.

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Jikan

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Re: How.
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2007, 07:07:48 PM »
Ladon, prepare for a lot of dodged questions, misdirection and double-talk. I've asked some intelligent questions of my own and I've been subjected to ridicule and/or insults peppered with vulgar language.  :-\

Some people really don't like it when you prove their fantasies to be just that.
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Re: How.
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2007, 07:32:30 PM »
Hmm

So it will be essentially like debating religion? Because I've spent weeks on that and gotten nowhere...

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TheEngineer

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Re: How.
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2007, 07:56:59 PM »
However, your FAQ also has a map of the flat earth with South at the very center. If that is so, then South would be the stationary point on a compass, and North would be the very rim of the earth. If this is so, a compass would not be able to get a steady and constant reading of North and South. There would be a second reading of North coming from behind the Southern reading, and the compass wouldn't be able to stay constant. Having built compasses, I know this isn't true.
Since you have 'built' compasses, perhaps you can tell me where the 'stationary' points are on a compass and why they would not stay constant.

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How can both north and south be stationary points?
Are they not supposed to be?

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Your FAQ says that the north is deep inside the earth.
North and South, yes.

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Your FAQ also says that if you travel south long enough, you will fall off the earth.
Right.




"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Re: How.
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2007, 08:26:23 PM »
However, your FAQ also has a map of the flat earth with South at the very center. If that is so, then South would be the stationary point on a compass, and North would be the very rim of the earth. If this is so, a compass would not be able to get a steady and constant reading of North and South. There would be a second reading of North coming from behind the Southern reading, and the compass wouldn't be able to stay constant. Having built compasses, I know this isn't true.
Since you have 'built' compasses, perhaps you can tell me where the 'stationary' points are on a compass and why they would not stay constant.
If you're asking me because you don't know, then you failed grade 5 science. If you're asking me because you know and you're trying to boost your ego, sorry.

Terrestrial North and Terrestrial South, more precise than Polar North and Polar South, are constant. They are fixed, exact, located, and explored. According to the FAQ, there is no way anyone could have travelled to Terrestrial South, as they would have been met by a '150 foot mountain range, covered in ice'. Something that apparently is impossible to scale ::)

It's also interesting to note at this point that a day in the South Pole lasts for approximately a year. According to your flat earth theory with a sun quite close to the surface of the earth, this would be impossible, as the distance would imply that nowhere on earth would actually have a night for more than a couple of hours.

I will now move on to Magnetic North and Magnetic South. The focus right now is Magnetic South. This is the South that a compass picks up, and is a wandering point depending on the rotation of the earth. I do not have the current coordinates, but in 2005 Magnetic South was at 2° 42? 0? N, 114° 24? 0? W. The constant in this situation is that the Magnetic South is always there. It is always possible to find, and there has never been a situation where someone couldn't reach it because of an ice wall.

According to your maps, both Magnetic South and Terrestrial South would be impossible to reach, as they would be spread out along the rim of the earth.

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TheEngineer

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Re: How.
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2007, 08:35:55 PM »
If you're asking me because you don't know, then you failed grade 5 science. If you're asking me because you know and you're trying to boost your ego, sorry.
I'm asking you because your ramblings made no sense.  Please explain what these constant points are. 

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I will now move on to Magnetic North and Magnetic South. The focus right now is Magnetic South. This is the South that a compass picks up
A compass picks up south?  What? ???

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, and is a wandering point depending on the rotation of the earth.
How does the rotation of the earth make the pole wander?

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The constant in this situation is that the Magnetic South is always there.
But it's always there in the FE, too...

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According to your maps, both Magnetic South and Terrestrial South would be impossible to reach, as they would be spread out along the rim of the earth.
Then why would they be impossible to reach?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Re: How.
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2007, 03:14:21 AM »
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I will now move on to Magnetic North and Magnetic South. The focus right now is Magnetic South. This is the South that a compass picks up
A compass picks up south?  What? ???
You're kidding, right?
When in the southern hemisphere, a compass's white needle will point to Magnetic South. (the constant, as it is always reachable, as opposed to a constant and stationary position as you implied) When in the Northern Hemisphere, the red needle on a compass points to the Magnetic North. Have you ever used a compass?

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, and is a wandering point depending on the rotation of the earth.
How does the rotation of the earth make the pole wander?
Wow, you really weren't kidding on that first one.
The earth wobbles on its axis, causing the Magnetic North and South to move in opposite directions around the Terrestrial poles.

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The constant in this situation is that the Magnetic South is always there.
But it's always there in the FE, too...
No, no it isn't. According to sources cited in your FAQ, going 'too far south' would cast one over the edge of the earth. That implies that both Magnetic South and Terrestrial South are impossible to reach. Once one reaches either of these, they would continue Northward, as the white needle on their compass never leaves Magnetic South.

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According to your maps, both Magnetic South and Terrestrial South would be impossible to reach, as they would be spread out along the rim of the earth.
Then why would they be impossible to reach?
Because they would not be a specific point, would they? Even though I am able to follow a map to Terrestrial South and a compass to Magnetic South, according to FE neither of those exist.

If I were you, I would not refer to my quick notes as 'ramblings', as I clearly have more knowledge on the subject than you.

On another note, I would very much like to hear an explanation for the polar day and night that correlates with FE theory. Not specifically from The Engineer, this is a general request. If you like, I will give you a few days to write a short-form response. That way you can properly cite and source your references, to avoid contradicting what appears to be a very small belief system. If such a response is written (and not copied and pasted from another site, although I doubt there would be a source for one) then I'll write one in response to it. If it seems necessary, perhaps a new thread could be opened to start the discussion. Thank you.

-Ladon

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divito the truthist

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Re: How.
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2007, 04:43:04 AM »
When in the southern hemisphere, a compass's white needle will point to Magnetic South. (the constant, as it is always reachable, as opposed to a constant and stationary position as you implied) When in the Northern Hemisphere, the red needle on a compass points to the Magnetic North. Have you ever used a compass?

Um...so if I'm in the Northern Hemisphere according to you, I can't get my compass to point to Magnetic South? Try again.

The earth wobbles on its axis, causing the Magnetic North and South to move in opposite directions around the Terrestrial poles.

"The South Magnetic Pole is constantly shifting due to changes in the Earth's magnetic field."

Nice try.

No, no it isn't. According to sources cited in your FAQ, going 'too far south' would cast one over the edge of the earth. That implies that both Magnetic South and Terrestrial South are impossible to reach. Once one reaches either of these, they would continue Northward, as the white needle on their compass never leaves Magnetic South.

...

Because they would not be a specific point, would they? Even though I am able to follow a map to Terrestrial South and a compass to Magnetic South, according to FE neither of those exist.

Where did you get that neither of them exist? Do you enjoy making things up?
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AllHaveFallen

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Re: How.
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2007, 06:06:12 AM »
However, your FAQ also has a map of the flat earth with South at the very center. If that is so, then South would be the stationary point on a compass, and North would be the very rim of the earth. If this is so, a compass would not be able to get a steady and constant reading of North and South. There would be a second reading of North coming from behind the Southern reading, and the compass wouldn't be able to stay constant. Having built compasses, I know this isn't true.
Since you have 'built' compasses, perhaps you can tell me where the 'stationary' points are on a compass and why they would not stay constant.

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How can both north and south be stationary points?
Are they not supposed to be?

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Your FAQ says that the north is deep inside the earth.
North and South, yes.

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Your FAQ also says that if you travel south long enough, you will fall off the earth.
Right.



Wait what? How can magnetic south be a fixed point on a flat earth, since the whole edge of the earth is "south"?
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

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Loard Z

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Re: How.
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2007, 06:18:47 AM »
Magnetic south is located under the earth.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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TheEngineer

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Re: How.
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2007, 07:50:24 AM »
You're kidding, right?
I was about to ask you the same thing.

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When in the southern hemisphere, a compass's white needle will point to Magnetic South. (the constant, as it is always reachable, as opposed to a constant and stationary position as you implied) When in the Northern Hemisphere, the red needle on a compass points to the Magnetic North. Have you ever used a compass?
I have used many compasses, but I don't really see the connection...
Anyway, the compass needles don't point to the poles.  They especially don't have to decide what 'hemisphere' you are in first.  ???

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The earth wobbles on its axis, causing the Magnetic North and South to move in opposite directions around the Terrestrial poles.
Uh no.  The wandering of the pole is due to variations in the core and variations of the field itself.

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The constant in this situation is that the Magnetic South is always there.
But it's always there in the FE, too...
No, no it isn't. According to sources cited in your FAQ, going 'too far south' would cast one over the edge of the earth. That implies that both Magnetic South and Terrestrial South are impossible to reach.
Right.  So, what's the problem?

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Because they would not be a specific point, would they? Even though I am able to follow a map to Terrestrial South and a compass to Magnetic South, according to FE neither of those exist.
No, they both exist. 

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If I were you, I would not refer to my quick notes as 'ramblings', as I clearly have more knowledge on the subject than you.
Yes, clearly... ::)



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AllHaveFallen

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Re: How.
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2007, 09:46:36 AM »
Magnetic south is located under the earth.
Then how come when we go due south following our compasses we aren't led into the heart of the earth?  :-\
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Re: How.
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2007, 09:56:17 AM »
Magnetic south is located under the earth.
Then how come when we go due south following our compasses we aren't led into the heart of the earth?  :-\

Because magnetic fields curve around and then through their dipoles. Look up a 3D rendering of a magnetic field, then imagine a flat earth inside of it, it is a clever answer the FE'ers have.
I turned my signatures off because they make threads hard to read. I can't even see this when I post, please tell me what I said here.

Re: How.
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2007, 01:02:10 PM »
When in the southern hemisphere, a compass's white needle will point to Magnetic South. (the constant, as it is always reachable, as opposed to a constant and stationary position as you implied) When in the Northern Hemisphere, the red needle on a compass points to the Magnetic North. Have you ever used a compass?

Um...so if I'm in the Northern Hemisphere according to you, I can't get my compass to point to Magnetic South? Try again.
When did I say that? It will still point to the south, but the compass is being controlled by the north. The closest pole controls the compass.
No, no it isn't. According to sources cited in your FAQ, going 'too far south' would cast one over the edge of the earth. That implies that both Magnetic South and Terrestrial South are impossible to reach. Once one reaches either of these, they would continue Northward, as the white needle on their compass never leaves Magnetic South.

...

Because they would not be a specific point, would they? Even though I am able to follow a map to Terrestrial South and a compass to Magnetic South, according to FE neither of those exist.

Where did you get that neither of them exist? Do you enjoy making things up?
Have you read the FAQ?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 01:04:16 PM by Ladon »

Re: How.
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2007, 01:11:56 PM »
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When in the southern hemisphere, a compass's white needle will point to Magnetic South. (the constant, as it is always reachable, as opposed to a constant and stationary position as you implied) When in the Northern Hemisphere, the red needle on a compass points to the Magnetic North. Have you ever used a compass?
I have used many compasses, but I don't really see the connection...
Anyway, the compass needles don't point to the poles.  They especially don't have to decide what 'hemisphere' you are in first.  ???
Oh dear, it's going to be like that... Compasses point to Magnetic Poles in the Magnetic Field. What, did you think they were magic? Magnetic North and Magnetic South.
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The constant in this situation is that the Magnetic South is always there.
But it's always there in the FE, too...
No, no it isn't. According to sources cited in your FAQ, going 'too far south' would cast one over the edge of the earth. That implies that both Magnetic South and Terrestrial South are impossible to reach.
Right.  So, what's the problem?
They aren't impossible to reach. Are you trying to look foolish?
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Because they would not be a specific point, would they? Even though I am able to follow a map to Terrestrial South and a compass to Magnetic South, according to FE neither of those exist.
No, they both exist. 
Show me on a map of 'FE' where Terrestrial and Magnetic South are. Pinpoint the exact locations.

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divito the truthist

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Re: How.
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2007, 01:22:47 PM »
Have you read the FAQ?

Yes. Again, "where did you get that neither of them exist? Do you enjoy making things up?"
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TheEngineer

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Re: How.
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2007, 01:34:02 PM »
When did I say that? It will still point to the south, but the compass is being controlled by the north. The closest pole controls the compass.
Uh, no.
Oh dear, it's going to be like that... Compasses point to Magnetic Poles in the Magnetic Field. What, did you think they were magic? Magnetic North and Magnetic South.
But you just said in the previous quote that they pointed to the nearest pole.  So now they don't?

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They aren't impossible to reach. Are you trying to look foolish?
They are impossible to reach on the FE.  However, it is not impossible to reach what one would believe to be the 'south' pole.

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Show me on a map of 'FE' where Terrestrial and Magnetic South are. Pinpoint the exact locations.

Of course, that is using the standard, incorrect, RE notation.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Re: How.
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2007, 11:33:26 PM »
That is not terrestrial south. A compass could never lead you to be standing in that location.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_pole In case you're getting confused.

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TheEngineer

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Re: How.
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2007, 12:04:00 AM »
That is not terrestrial south. A compass could never lead you to be standing in that location.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_pole In case you're getting confused.
Uh, it's right there in the picture I posted.

Now, how about those questions I posed?  I especially want to hear about the poles controlling compasses based on their distance from them.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 12:10:08 AM by TheEngineer »


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: How.
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2007, 12:30:37 AM »
That is not terrestrial south. A compass could never lead you to be standing in that location.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_pole In case you're getting confused.
Uh, it's right there in the picture I posted.
No, it really isn't. You've given me a picture of a flat disc and a pole sticking through it. How does one stand on the opposite side of the disc?

If you need to perform an experient to learn about magnetic fields, get a cup of water, a cup a needle, and two magnets that have N and S labelled on their ends. Magnetising the needle and placing it on top of the cork in the water will create a rudamentary compass. Placing a S on one side of the cup and a N on the other will create a demonstration model of the magnetic fields present on Earth. Realistically, the magnet should be larger and beneath the cup, but this will do for our experiment.

Place the magnets on opposite sides with similar distances between them and the cup. Now move one closer and approximately 30 degrees arund the cup in either direction. The needle will follow this, as it is presently the most powerful field. Move that magnet away from the cup without changing the protractive measurement, and the needle will revert back to the previous position. This is because the other magnet is now the most powerful field affecting the needle.

Remove both of the magnets, and the needle will align to the most powerful field, as the smaller magnets have limited range. If you are in the Northern Hemisphere, the north end of the needle will point in that direction. If you are in the Southern, the South will point to the South. The closest pole is the controlling one, even though it doesn't make much of a difference to the direction of a compass needle.

Anything else? Sorry if I'm not being detailed enough, but I'm writing this quickly. I don't really set aside too much time for writing on strangely amusing sites.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: How.
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2007, 12:34:58 AM »
lol.  Ladon is teaching TheEngineer about magnetism.  ::)
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: How.
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2007, 12:37:52 AM »
Well, he keeps asking me elementary questions, so I just assumed he wanted to be taught a short lesson. He doesn't seem to be much of an engineer...