The Moon

Quote from: Bytes on November 12, 2007, 07:29:28 AM

The only problem is that the Earth-Moon distance can be measured relatively easily even by a modest astronomy club let alone a respectable university, which makes the conspiracy theory laughable at best.

What does the distance of the Moon to the Earth have to do with the conspiracy?

Well it's hard to conspire against millions of free willing, open minded amateur hobbyists and scientists who can observe the universe around us in ways that Copernicus and Galilei could only dream of. It may not have an apparent direct relationship but when we realize the FE theorists chose the 3000 mile Earth-Moon distance carefully so they can somehow explain things like the lunar phase, and once we prove that to be an utter non sense, the lunar phase changes are clearly a work by the Moon and Earth geometrical relationship as they orbit the Sun. Unless the Moon is a giant stage light, it will not turn on and off by itself at 250,000 miles. At that distance the FE lunar phase theory doesn't hold up.

Quote from: eric bloedow on November 11, 2007, 07:45:33 PM

perhaps i missed something in the FAQ: what's the FE explanation for phases of the moon?

Lunar phase in FE refers to the appearance of the illuminated portion of the Moon as seen by an observer on Earth. The lunar phases vary cyclically as the Moon orbits the hub of the Earth, according to the changing geometry of the Moon and Sun, which rotate at slightly different velocities. One half of the lunar surface is always illuminated by the Sun, and is hence bright, but the portion of the illuminated hemisphere that is visible to an observer can vary from 100% (full moon) to 0% (new moon). The boundary between the illuminated and unilluminated hemispheres is called the terminator.

The Moon exhibits different phases as the relative geometry of Sun and Moon change, appearing as a full moon when the Sun and Moon are on opposite sides of the observer, and as a new moon it is not visible at night when they are on the same side of the observer. The phases of full moon and new moon are examples of syzygies, which occur when the Moon, observer, and Sun lie approximately in a straight line. The time between two full moons, or between successive occurrences of the same phase, is about 29.53 days (29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes) on average. This synodic month is longer than the time it takes the Moon to make one orbit about the hub of the Earth with respect to the stars (the sidereal month), which is about 27.32 days. This difference is caused by the fact that the Moon system is orbiting about the Sun at the same time the Moon is orbiting about the hub of the Earth. The actual time between two syzygies is variable because the orbit of the Moon is elliptic and subject to various periodic perturbations, which change the velocity of the Moon.

Ah TB, you never fail to amuse. Whatever happened to the infamous shadow object? And I thought the moon produced it's own "cold light." Well, that's according to the FAQ.

Well it's hard to conspire against millions of free willing, open minded amateur hobbyists and scientists who can observe the universe around us in ways that Copernicus and Galilei could only dream of. It may not have an apparent direct relationship but when we realize the FE theorists chose the 3000 mile Earth-Moon distance carefully so they can somehow explain things like the lunar phase, and once we prove that to be an utter non sense, the lunar phase changes are clearly a work by the Moon and Earth geometrical relationship as they orbit the Sun. Unless the Moon is a giant stage light, it will not turn on and off by itself at 250,000 miles. At that distance the FE lunar phase theory doesn't hold up.

Thus, the FE idea of the distance of the Moon is ill-conceived. This has been known for some time.

if (Moon==RE distance)
{
revise FE
}

Actually, in Usernames defense in that regard, you can find people of like mind almost anywhere you go. Although I happen to believe in a RE... I'm betting if UN does a good job putting out the info and trying to start a chapter... it will happen. Just depends on how much you want to pursue your ideals.

Kind of like my Irish music. I play whistle, there wasn't a jam session/Hoolie in the area. Took me months to get some people together that also played Irish / Celtic type music, but 4 years later... it's still going and growing (sometimes as many as 20 people)!

Only difference is that there isn't years of evidence to prove to the vast, vast majority of humanity that Irish music doesn't exist... 

Quote from: eric bloedow on November 11, 2007, 07:45:33 PM

perhaps i missed something in the FAQ: what's the FE explanation for phases of the moon?

Lunar phase in FE refers to the appearance of the illuminated portion of the Moon as seen by an observer on Earth. The lunar phases vary cyclically as the Moon orbits the hub of the Earth, according to the changing geometry of the Moon and Sun, which rotate at slightly different velocities. One half of the lunar surface is always illuminated by the Sun, and is hence bright, but the portion of the illuminated hemisphere that is visible to an observer can vary from 100% (full moon) to 0% (new moon). The boundary between the illuminated and unilluminated hemispheres is called the terminator.

The Moon exhibits different phases as the relative geometry of Sun and Moon change, appearing as a full moon when the Sun and Moon are on opposite sides of the observer, and as a new moon it is not visible at night when they are on the same side of the observer. The phases of full moon and new moon are examples of syzygies, which occur when the Moon, observer, and Sun lie approximately in a straight line. The time between two full moons, or between successive occurrences of the same phase, is about 29.53 days (29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes) on average. This synodic month is longer than the time it takes the Moon to make one orbit about the hub of the Earth with respect to the stars (the sidereal month), which is about 27.32 days. This difference is caused by the fact that the Moon system is orbiting about the Sun at the same time the Moon is orbiting about the hub of the Earth. The actual time between two syzygies is variable because the orbit of the Moon is elliptic and subject to various periodic perturbations, which change the velocity of the Moon.

...what?  Um, I thought the sun was a spotlight?  That was why light didn't go everywhere?  That it was limited to a beam?  Is TomB now trying to say that the sun is a beam downwards, but works like the RE sun in all other ways?  Then how would you explain phases of the moon to those living on the "outside" of the orbits of the moon and sun?

...Or am I just stupid for putting any credence in what TomB says? 

...Or am I just stupid for putting any credence in what TomB says? 

Pretty much, I don't think anyone here takes him seriously. I did once, and it caused me hours of frustration. So now I generally just find myself scolling past his annoying avatar.

sheesh...a quarter mile? propeller planes can fly higher than that.

reminds me of a cartoon, i think it was "calvin and hobbes": kid asks dad, "how big is the sun", and dad says something like, "if you hold a quarter in front of your eye, it blocks the sun; therefore, the sun is the size of a quarter."!

sheesh...a quarter mile? propeller planes can fly higher than that.

A quarter mile what?

Quote from: eric bloedow on November 14, 2007, 07:38:49 PM

sheesh...a quarter mile? propeller planes can fly higher than that.

A quarter mile what?

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Look people, the good old Moon orbits roughly a quarter mile away from Earth, the only one object that can cast shadows on it to cause the lunar phases and that object is Earth. This is why the FE theorists cling so desperately to the 3000 miles distance, otherwise they could never explain the lunar phases. The only problem is that the Earth-Moon distance can be measured relatively easily even by a modest astronomy club let alone a respectable university, which makes the conspiracy theory laughable at best.

An unrevised distance.

yes, but FErs claim that those calculations MUST be wrong because they are based on the RE model!

but they have NEVER produced ANY sort of calculations of their OWN that would explain their guesses of 3000 miles, or 1/4 mile, or 20 miles, or whatever!

they just SAY that "perspective" would explain it all.

yes, but FErs claim that those calculations MUST be wrong because they are based on the RE model!

but they have NEVER produced ANY sort of calculations of their OWN that would explain their guesses of 3000 miles, or 1/4 mile, or 20 miles, or whatever!

they just SAY that "perspective" would explain it all.

You seem to know more about the FE than the FEers do.

Stop making shit up, it's getting annoying.

yes, but FErs claim that those calculations MUST be wrong because they are based on the RE model!

but they have NEVER produced ANY sort of calculations of their OWN that would explain their guesses of 3000 miles, or 1/4 mile, or 20 miles, or whatever!

they just SAY that "perspective" would explain it all.

TomB has reckoned the sun's altitude can be calculated using some triangulation method, by observing its position in the sky at different places at a certain time of day (I think).  Of course, this presumes the earth is flat, and therefore proves precisely nothing.

Whenever I feel frustrated by FE arguments on this forum, I then think of how completely absurd the FE model of the heavens is:

  What holds it all up?
  What powers it?
  What do the sun/moon/planets/asteroids orbit around?
  What do the stars/galaxies orbit around?
  Why does the behaviour of everything in the sky fit perfectly into a RE model, when there is no RE?