How.

No, it really isn't. You've given me a picture of a flat disc and a pole sticking through it. How does one stand on the opposite side of the disc?

It was for illustrative purposes, but I guess that was too much for you to understand.

Anything else? Sorry if I'm not being detailed enough, but I'm writing this quickly.

Yes, this amuses me.  You could spend a year writing this and you would still be wrong.

Place the magnets on opposite sides with similar distances between them and the cup. Now move one closer and approximately 30 degrees arund the cup in either direction. The needle will follow this, as it is presently the most powerful field. Move that magnet away from the cup without changing the protractive measurement, and the needle will revert back to the previous position. This is because the other magnet is now the most powerful field affecting the needle.

At least this part is right. 

If you are in the Northern Hemisphere, the north end of the needle will point in that direction. If you are in the Southern, the South will point to the South. The closest pole is the controlling one, even though it doesn't make much of a difference to the direction of a compass needle.

And then you are wrong again.  A compass aligns itself with the prevailing magnetic field at its location.  It does not matter where the poles are or how far away they are.  Your version of magnetism violates at least one of the basic tenants of electromagnetism. 

Well, he keeps asking me elementary questions, so I just assumed he wanted to be taught a short lesson.

I want to know how your rambling version works, 'cause it sure is original.

Quote from: Ladon on November 17, 2007, 12:30:37 AM

Anything else? Sorry if I'm not being detailed enough, but I'm writing this quickly.

Yes, this amuses me.  You could spend a year writing this and you would still be wrong.

Quote

Place the magnets on opposite sides with similar distances between them and the cup. Now move one closer and approximately 30 degrees arund the cup in either direction. The needle will follow this, as it is presently the most powerful field. Move that magnet away from the cup without changing the protractive measurement, and the needle will revert back to the previous position. This is because the other magnet is now the most powerful field affecting the needle.

At least this part is right. 

Quote

If you are in the Northern Hemisphere, the north end of the needle will point in that direction. If you are in the Southern, the South will point to the South. The closest pole is the controlling one, even though it doesn't make much of a difference to the direction of a compass needle.

And then you are wrong again.  A compass aligns itself with the prevailing magnetic field at its location.  It does not matter where the poles are or how far away they are.  Your version of magnetism violates at least one of the basic tenants of electromagnetism. 

The poles are the most concentrated points in the prevailing magnetic field. They are also the points at which the concentrated section of the field intersect with the ground. What I am trying to ask you is where those points can be found. You have told me that the Southern Magnetic Pole is on the bottom of the 'disc'. As nice as it looks on paper, one could not find themselves at that position by travelling South following a compass.

The poles are the most concentrated points in the prevailing magnetic field.

No, they are the most concentrated point of the field on the Earth.  Your version of magnetism basically states the 'North' end of a compass will feel a greater force than the 'South' end, due to it being closer to the pole right?

What I am trying to ask you is where those points can be found. You have told me that the Southern Magnetic Pole is on the bottom of the 'disc'. As nice as it looks on paper, one could not find themselves at that position by travelling South following a compass.

If you want to get technical, the magnetic North pole is on the underside of the Earth, and the magnetic South pole is on the top.  The field would be vertical at three places (for simplicity's sake, as there are hundreds of thousands of places where the Earth's local field is vertical): The center of the disk (top side), the outer rim of the FE, and at the center of the FE (underside).

Quote from: Ladon on November 17, 2007, 12:51:51 AM

The poles are the most concentrated points in the prevailing magnetic field.

No, they are the most concentrated point of the field on the Earth.  Your version of magnetism basically states the 'North' end of a compass will feel a greater force than the 'South' end, due to it being closer to the pole right?

My 'version' of magnetism is a pair of constantly flowing streams, each with a drain at opposite ends of the magnetic field.
The closer you are to one fo the drains, the more it will affect you and your surroundings. That includes compasses.
It's hardly my own version...

Quote

What I am trying to ask you is where those points can be found. You have told me that the Southern Magnetic Pole is on the bottom of the 'disc'. As nice as it looks on paper, one could not find themselves at that position by travelling South following a compass.

If you want to get technical, the magnetic North pole is on the underside of the Earth, and the magnetic South pole is on the top.  The field would be vertical at three places (for simplicity's sake, as there are hundreds of thousands of places where the Earth's local field is vertical): The center of the disk (top side), the outer rim of the FE, and at the center of the FE (underside).

Why can I follow a compass from both South Africa and Australia and find myself in the same exact place when my compass says I've reached the vertex?

Quote from: Ladon on November 16, 2007, 01:02:10 PM

When did I say that? It will still point to the south, but the compass is being controlled by the north. The closest pole controls the compass.

Uh, no.

Quote from: Ladon on November 16, 2007, 01:11:56 PM

Oh dear, it's going to be like that... Compasses point to Magnetic Poles in the Magnetic Field. What, did you think they were magic? Magnetic North and Magnetic South.

But you just said in the previous quote that they pointed to the nearest pole.  So now they don't?

It's almost as if you're misunderstanding me on purpose... I guess that's kind of normal around here.

Here's a sourceless reference for you, which is hilariously more intelligent than the FAQ.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-02/950833371.Es.r.html

My 'version' of magnetism is a pair of constantly flowing streams, each with a drain at opposite ends of the magnetic field. The closer you are to one fo the drains, the more it will affect you and your surroundings.

Why are there 'drains' at each end?  How does the 'stream' get stronger the closer you are to the drain?

Why can I follow a compass from both South Africa and Australia and find myself in the same exact place when my compass says I've reached the vertex?

You won't.

It's almost as if you're misunderstanding me on purpose... I guess that's kind of normal around here.

Here's a sourceless reference for you, which is hilariously more intelligent than the FAQ.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-02/950833371.Es.r.html

That link does nothing to support your position.  In fact, it has exactly nothing to do with your argument.  But I guess that is normal for someone who doesn't understand what they are arguing... 

Quote

Why can I follow a compass from both South Africa and Australia and find myself in the same exact place when my compass says I've reached the vertex?

You won't.

This is where I get off... If you can't understand that then there's no possible way to continue this discussion. You are clearly not an engineer, any scientist would believe the most simple explanation. Yet you're arguing for the side of the most inane.

You have yet to answer my question of the Midnight Sun, and so I assume you're just trying to grasp at something to argue with.

Yet you're arguing for the side of the most inane.

No, I am arguing against your shotty view of magnetism.  The fact that you can't defend your position is quite telling.  I really was hoping to hear more about your theory, though...

I already argued my position and finished almost a page ago. You seem to be slow to keep up... Compasses are influenced by which hemisphere you are in. The link I provided was an alternate explanation for it, and it supported my previous statement.

How does the 'stream' get stronger the closer you are to the drain?

Wow, um... ok.
When water goes through a drain, it creates a large amount of suction.

I'm not going to give you a lesson in suction. Either smarten up and ask an intelligent question, or I'm just going to start ignoring you...

If you really don't understand how the earth's magnetic field works, take a look at this:
http://www.greatdreams.com/magnet1.jpg

I already argued my position and finished almost a page ago. You seem to be slow to keep up... Compasses are influenced by which hemisphere you are in.

No, they are not.  Especially the way you are explaining.  You stated your position but have refused to back it up with any actual physics.

The link I provided was an alternate explanation for it, and it supported my previous statement.

No, the link you provided explained a completely different phenomenon, and the fact you think it was backing your argument is amazing. 

Wow, um... ok.
When water goes through a drain, it creates a large amount of suction.

So, if the poles are both 'draining', where does the magnetic field come from?

I'm not going to give you a lesson in suction.

Good, because we were talking about magnetism, and they are not related. 

Either smarten up and ask an intelligent question, or I'm just going to start ignoring you...

I am intrigued by your theory of magnetism, as it is all new and as far as I can tell, is not based on any modern theory of electromagnetism.

If you really don't understand how the earth's magnetic field works, take a look at this:
http://www.greatdreams.com/magnet1.jpg

What about it?

Quote

Wow, um... ok.
When water goes through a drain, it creates a large amount of suction.

So, if the poles are both 'draining', where does the magnetic field come from?

...
The field is a constant loop, what are you talking about?

Quote from: Ladon on November 17, 2007, 02:16:04 PM

I already argued my position and finished almost a page ago. You seem to be slow to keep up... Compasses are influenced by which hemisphere you are in.

No, they are not. Especially the way you are explaining. You stated your position but have refused to back it up with any actual physics.

I have never claimed to be a Physicist. And yes, yes they are.

It's almost as if you've been taught by Tom Bishop himself...

The field is a constant loop, what are you talking about?

Right, so how can it be 'draining' on both sides?  How can the field be stronger along the same vector depending on the distance to the pole?

It's almost as if you've been taught by Tom Bishop himself...

No, I was taught by actual physicists.

I have never claimed to be a Physicist.

Don't worry, I never mistook you for one.

This guy is just pathetic.

Quote from: Ladon on November 17, 2007, 02:40:02 PM

The field is a constant loop, what are you talking about?

Right, so how can it be 'draining' on both sides?  How can the field be stronger along the same vector depending on the distance to the pole?

It drains in through the top, out through the bottom. Wow.

The field isn't stronger, it's more concentrated. When you're in the south, the southern end of the field (N) is the closest, and so is the prevailing power over the compass.

However, as you're arguing for FE, there is no southern hemisphere. So the magnetic field is in fact moot, all controlled by magic.

I've got everything I need from this thread, thanks