got some questions

At any rate, I think we can agree that it's stupid to pick on a kid whose first language isn't English for his grammar.   

Welcome to the internet.

At any rate, I think we can agree that it's fun to pick on a kid whose first language isn't English for his grammar.   

Fixed.

Quote from: questions on November 14, 2007, 10:20:26 PM

At any rate, I think we can agree that it's fun to pick on a kid whose first language isn't English for his grammar.   

Fixed.

Engy so mean.   

Quote from: Mr. Ireland on November 14, 2007, 05:47:24 AM

Quote from: questions on November 13, 2007, 10:36:46 PM

Quote from: Mr. Ireland on November 13, 2007, 07:06:34 PM

Quote from: alex00 on November 13, 2007, 06:52:44 PM

first of all can u all stop making fun of my spelling
second, US schools suck u get credit just for trying and they pass you

So, you've basically learned all of your spelling and grammar in the USA, and you blame it on the school system that you suck?  Sorry, but there are many intelligent (let alone able to spell) people in the USA - you just aren't an achiever, I guess.

I'm sick of this BS.  Stop picking on the kid's spelling and grammar.

"...And you blame it on the school system that you suck?"
Awkward usage.  Better sentence would be: "...And you blame the fact that you suck on the school system?"

"Sorry, but there are many intelligent (let alone able to spell) people in the USA..."
Do you realize that you wrote not only "Sorry, but there are many intelligent people in the USA," but also "Sorry, but there are very many let alone able to spell people in the USA"?  Why don't you write instead, "Sorry, but there are many intelligent people in the USA, let alone those who are able to spell..."



Before you pick on someone else's grammar and spelling, check your own! 

Besides, most 5 year olds go to school knowing basic English.  He's basically 5 years behind the rest of his class.  Aside from that, the US school system is notorious for turning out sub-par students.  Grammar isn't taught (at least, not in California).  Students don't even get introduced to pre-algebra until 9th or 10th grade at times.  Learning history is a joke.  Science classes are, as well (In 9th and 10th grade, you begin learning about the Water Cycle and what Photosynthesis is). 

So, lay off the kid!  Is this how you feel better about yourselves, by picking on a 16 year old when he's coming here to learn?

So you're going to tell me that it took him as long as someone who knew no language to learn the english language? lol  Someone doesn't understand this site/the internet

Edit:  Wth, I didn't even hate on this guys grammar.  As for my spelling, I'm pretty sure it's doing alright.  So, I guess you've just joined us on the big hate trip of laughing at people ON THE INTERNET (<--capital words right there are key) for silly reasons.

1) See bold/underlined sections.  You DID "hate on this guys grammar." 

Uhhm, that's not hating on his grammar at all.  That 'you suck' was referring back to his terrible spelling of government.

2) From http://www.language-learning-advisor.com/age-and-language-learning.html#olderlanguagelearner

Quote

Researchers also caution against withdrawing home language support too soon and suggest that although oral communication skills in a second language may be acquired within 2 or 3 years, it may take 4 to 6 years to acquire the level of proficiency needed for understanding the language in its academic uses (Collier, 1989; Cummins, 1981).

Quote

Some teachers assume that children who can converse comfortably in English are in full control of the language. Yet for school-aged children, proficiency in face-to-face communication does not imply proficiency in the more complex academic language needed to engage in many classroom activities. Cummins (1980) cites evidence from a study of 1,210 immigrant children in Canada who required much longer (approximately 5 to 7 years) to master the disembedded cognitive language required for the regular English curriculum than to master oral communicative skills.

Educators need to be cautious in exiting children from programs where they have the support of their home language. If children who are not ready for the all-English classroom are mainstreamed, their academic success may be hindered. Teachers should realize that mainstreaming children on the basis of oral language assessment is inappropriate.

All teachers need to be aware that children who are learning in a second language may have language problems in reading and writing that are not apparent if their oral abilities are used to gauge their English proficiency. These problems in academic reading and writing at the middle and high school levels may stem from limitations in vocabulary and syntactic knowledge. Even children who are skilled orally can have such gaps.

Quote

REFERENCES

Collier, V. (1989). How long: A synthesis of research on academic achievement in a second language. "TESOL Quarterly, 23," 509-531.

Cummins, J. (1980). The cross-lingual dimensions of language proficiency: Implications for bilingual education and the optimal age issue. "TESOL Quarterly, 14," 175-187.

Cummins, J. (1981). The role of primary language development in promoting educational success for language minority students. In "Schooling and language minority students: A theoretical framework." Los Angeles: California State University; Evaluation, Dissemination, and Assessment Center.

So, yes, I AM saying that it takes someone at 5 years old with no knowledge of English as long to learn English to an extent that it is functional AS LONG AS a national.  If you want to look up more sources, be my guest.  I don't have time to argue further with people who don't research before making stupid, ineffective arguments.

Quote from: TheEngineer on November 13, 2007, 11:00:25 PM

I was taught algebra in the 8th grade.  And that was a long time ago.

I was taught pre-lgebra in 6th grade and algebra in 7th, but I went to private school.  That's not the point.

The point is that PRE-algebra is available to 9th and 10th grade students in California.  You only have to pass algebra some time before senior year (at least, as of 8 years ago when I graduated).  Which is sad, but true.  There's a reason that, at the time, California ranked number 49 out of the top 50 states (ranked according to quality of education).  Can't cite the year, but I remember that paper.  Only state lower was Alabama.

So you agree he should have been fine with English years ago, then?  Good to know that whole 'it's my second language' defense is gone. 

Uhhm, that's not hating on his grammar at all.  That 'you suck' was referring back to his terrible spelling of government.

Actually, it is. 

So, you've basically learned all of your spelling and grammar in the USA, and you blame it on the school system that you suck?

This implies that he "sucks" because his spelling and grammar are poor.

So you agree he should have been fine with English years ago, then?  Good to know that whole 'it's my second language' defense is gone. 

Because we ALL know that someone with 10 years of English experience has spelling and grammatical skills equivalent to a 16 year old native speaker.  Especially when his only exposure to English is at school, in a school system that fails miserably.     You, sir, fail.



EDIT:  There is no way for you to win this.  Just drop it and leave the kid alone.  I won't stand by while people tear someone to shreds over such a stupid issue as grammar and spelling on the web.

Quote from: Mr. Ireland on November 15, 2007, 02:13:50 PM

Uhhm, that's not hating on his grammar at all.  That 'you suck' was referring back to his terrible spelling of government.

Actually, it is. 

So, you've basically learned all of your spelling and grammar in the USA, and you blame it on the school system that you suck?

This implies that he "sucks" because his spelling and grammar are poor.

You should be aware by now I'm pretty bad with wording.  I just explained what the 'you suck' refers to.  So, no.

Quote from: Mr. Ireland

So you agree he should have been fine with English years ago, then?  Good to know that whole 'it's my second language' defense is gone. 

Because we ALL know that someone with 10 years of English experience has spelling and grammatical skills equivalent to a 16 year old native speaker.  Especially when his only exposure to English is at school, in a school system that fails miserably.     You, sir, fail.



EDIT:  There is no way for you to win this.  Just drop it and leave the kid alone.  I won't stand by while people tear someone to shreds over such a stupid issue as grammar and spelling on the web.

But your references said 4-6 and 5-7 years (that's only a max of age 12 omg!).  And, only exposure to English is at school?  Are these immigrants all friendless, now?

Quote from: questions on November 17, 2007, 11:02:50 AM

Quote from: Mr. Ireland on November 15, 2007, 02:13:50 PM

Uhhm, that's not hating on his grammar at all.  That 'you suck' was referring back to his terrible spelling of government.

Actually, it is. 

So, you've basically learned all of your spelling and grammar in the USA, and you blame it on the school system that you suck?

This implies that he "sucks" because his spelling and grammar are poor.

You should be aware by now I'm pretty bad with wording.  I just explained what the 'you suck' refers to.  So, no.

Quote from: questions on November 17, 2007, 11:02:50 AM

Quote from: Mr. Ireland

So you agree he should have been fine with English years ago, then?  Good to know that whole 'it's my second language' defense is gone. 

Because we ALL know that someone with 10 years of English experience has spelling and grammatical skills equivalent to a 16 year old native speaker.  Especially when his only exposure to English is at school, in a school system that fails miserably.     You, sir, fail.



EDIT:  There is no way for you to win this.  Just drop it and leave the kid alone.  I won't stand by while people tear someone to shreds over such a stupid issue as grammar and spelling on the web.

But your references said 4-6 and 5-7 years (that's only a max of age 12 omg!).  And, only exposure to English is at school?  Are these immigrants all friendless, now?

1) If you're THAT bad at using words to convey what you mean, why would you pick on someone with a different natuve language?  It seems that you are the one more easily ridiculed.   


2) Most people who don't know English don't get high-paying jobs.  Think McDonalds or Taco Bell.  $6.75/hour.  These people don't live in the suburbs.  When a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and a large number of them don't speak English (or have very poor English skills), inevitably they will start to gather in low-cost housing. 

Why is this significant?  Two reasons:

• When you go to ESL classes (remember that the kid wouldn't be streamlined until at least 10) with someone who lives next door, it's easier to befriend that person than the white kid hanging out with his English-speaking friends.
• Kids are cruel.  And mean.  And vicious.  If they pick on kids for having red hair, being fat or being freckled, why would they spare the Hispanic kid with the funny accent?  Teasing doesn't usually make people good friends.

1) If you're THAT bad at using words to convey what you mean, why would you pick on someone with a different natuve language?  It seems that you are the one more easily ridiculed.   

Oh, God...  If you're THAT bad at reading and make false assumptions as to references so you can try and back your own incorrect thoughts, then it seems you are the one more easily ridiculed.

2) Most people who don't know English don't get high-paying jobs.  Think McDonalds or Taco Bell.  $6.75/hour.  These people don't live in the suburbs.  When a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and a large number of them don't speak English (or have very poor English skills), inevitably they will start to gather in low-cost housing. 

Why is this significant?  Two reasons:

• When you go to ESL classes (remember that the kid wouldn't be streamlined until at least 10) with someone who lives next door, it's easier to befriend that person than the white kid hanging out with his English-speaking friends.
• Kids are cruel.  And mean.  And vicious.  If they pick on kids for having red hair, being fat or being freckled, why would they spare the Hispanic kid with the funny accent?  Teasing doesn't usually make people good friends.

Go back to first page, hunny.  I'm sure he's not Mexican.

My point still stands.