Occam's Razor

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eric bloedow

Occam's Razor
« on: November 04, 2007, 08:25:47 AM »
"all things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be the right one"
the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible.

so let's compare:
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Lunar Eclipse:

FE explanation: mysterious "shadow object" which no telescope can see passes in front of the moon and blocks it's light, yet SOMEHOW never blocks the light from ANY star.

RE explanation: earth passes between sun and moon and casts a shadow on the moon.

which is simpler and makes fewer assumptions?
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why has no one ever seen the hypothecial "ice wall"?

FE explanation: mysterious inter-government ultra-conspiracy makes all pilots use fake flight plans and has secret solders at the wall who SOMEHOW make travelers turn around WITHOUT NOTICING they have been turned.

RE explanation: it doesn't exist.

which is simpler and makes fewer assumptions?
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satellite pictures of earth make it appear to be round.

FE explanation: that same ultra-conspiracy also has total control of NASA and has SOMEHOW faked every single mission, photo, "live" interview with astronauts, etc.

RE explanation: NASA is telling the truth.

which is simpler and makes fewer assumptions?
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i hope any undecided people who read this will think about it seriously. of course hardcore FErs automatically reject anything said by anyone other that other hardcore FE'rs, so they will no doubt fill this thread with cheap insults. probably starting with the accusation that i am part of, or have been fooled by, that same ultra-conspiracy, thus proving how closed-minded they really are!

in fact, they remind me of the "thebans" in a sci-fi novel by David Weber and Steve White. look it up!

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2007, 10:01:56 AM »
Occam's Razor starts out, "All things being equal..."

In the FE universe, all thing are NOT equal.  Therefore, Occam's Razor does not apply.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2007, 10:08:14 AM »
Hey, I can do that too!

The conspiracy

RE explanation: There is no conspiracy.  We are really able to build these fantastic spaceships that are able to pull themselves out of the earth's atmosphere and land flawlessly on the moon.  We are able to create amazing space suits that protect "astronauts" from the harsh conditions of space.  With no launching equipment on the moon we are still able to flawlessly take off from the moon and return to earth.  We can pinpoint the exact path an unmanned spacecraft must take to safely land on Mars.  We are able to launch satellites into a geosynchronous orbit.  We can build fantastically large telescopes, send them into space, and take distant pictures with that.

FE explanation:  There is a conspiracy and we can't really do all those things.

Hmmm, which is simpler?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 10:29:29 AM by Roundylicious »
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2007, 10:12:30 AM »
Gravity

RE explanation: Gravity is a force with a completely unknown mechanism that somehow pulls two objects with mass together.  This is achieved both with relativity which bends space-time, and somehow also with a subatomic particle called the graviton, a theoretical "virtual" particle that mediates the force of gravity.  Why such a particle would be necessary is unknown if mass bends space-time, but quantum mechanics predicts that it exists.

FE explanation: The earth and the universe are propelled upwards by dark energy.

Which is simpler?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2007, 10:27:55 AM »
Another victory for FE!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2007, 10:32:10 AM »
We win, Roundy!  Love, love, all around!

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eric bloedow

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2007, 10:49:31 AM »
oh, very funny. you have re-stated BOTH sides, in YOUR words, DELIBERATELY making YOUR version of RE sound more complicated, and think that MAGICALLY "proves" you right.

a VERY cheap, stupid trick. i'm dissappointed.

now let's see you re-write the entire "universal accelleration" and make it sound simpler than gravity!

oh, but of course you can't, so you will PRETEND gravity is more complicated.

if you could fill in any of those "SOMEHOW"s in my first thread, you could consider that a victory.

instead, you say, "i win because i win" and think that's PROOF?!

so, how come no scientist on earth has ever HEARD of "dark energy" before?
because you JUST MADE IT UP!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 10:54:45 AM by eric bloedow »

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2007, 11:01:20 AM »
oh, very funny. you have re-stated BOTH sides, in YOUR words, DELIBERATELY making YOUR version of RE sound more complicated, and think that MAGICALLY "proves" you right.

a VERY cheap, stupid trick. i'm dissappointed.


I would say the same about what you were trying to do, seeing as you were using a philosophical concept in an attempt to prove something.  Do you really think that science works that way?  ::)
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Moon squirter

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2007, 11:36:50 AM »
Gravity

RE explanation: Gravity is a force with a completely unknown mechanism that somehow pulls two objects with mass together.  This is achieved both with relativity which bends space-time, and somehow also with a subatomic particle called the graviton, a theoretical "virtual" particle that mediates the force of gravity.  Why such a particle would be necessary is unknown if mass bends space-time, but quantum mechanics predicts that it exists.

FE explanation: The earth and the universe are propelled upwards by dark energy.

Which is simpler?

Science understands much about what gravity does but not about what it is.  That is mankind's current position. 

FE cannot explain nor predict the behavior of gravity.  If you are denying the existence of gravity (which I think you are) then there is a Nobel prize awaiting you.  You just have to prove why this is; Why centuries of observation, analysis and peer-reviewed papers are now worthless.

FE answers always seem to raise more questions than they resolve.  For example:

  • How exactly does dark energy cause acceleration?
  • What keeps the sun "disk" aloft?
  • What do the planets orbit around?
  • What powers the sun? 
  • How is the sun a spot light?
  • Who exactly is involved in the conspiracy aside from space agencies?  Astronomers? Cosmologists? Theoretical physicists? Geologists? Antarctic surveyors?
.
The list goes on, and as soon as you try to answer any of them, There are yet more questions.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2007, 11:43:20 AM »
FE cannot explain nor predict the behavior of gravity.  If you are denying the existence of gravity (which I think you are) then there is a Nobel prize awaiting you.  You just have to prove why this is; Why centuries of observation, analysis and peer-reviewed papers are now worthless.

lol.  Gravity doesn't exist.  :D
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Loard Z

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2007, 11:45:30 AM »
oh, very funny. you have re-stated BOTH sides, in YOUR words, DELIBERATELY making YOUR version of RE sound more complicated, and think that MAGICALLY "proves" you right.

a VERY cheap, stupid trick. i'm dissappointed.

now let's see you re-write the entire "universal accelleration" and make it sound simpler than gravity!

oh, but of course you can't, so you will PRETEND gravity is more complicated.

if you could fill in any of those "SOMEHOW"s in my first thread, you could consider that a victory.

instead, you say, "i win because i win" and think that's PROOF?!

so, how come no scientist on earth has ever HEARD of "dark energy" before?
because you JUST MADE IT UP!


roffle.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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Tom Dipshit

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2007, 11:49:32 AM »
FE cannot explain nor predict the behavior of gravity.  If you are denying the existence of gravity (which I think you are) then there is a Nobel prize awaiting you.  You just have to prove why this is; Why centuries of observation, analysis and peer-reviewed papers are now worthless.

lol.  Gravity doesn't exist.  :D
You don't exist.
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Z' Lord of Purple: "yes, superfast jet streams for the win!!!"

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divito the truthist

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2007, 11:49:57 AM »
so, how come no scientist on earth has ever HEARD of "dark energy" before?
because you JUST MADE IT UP!

ROFL. I'm dying!
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
Quote from: Fortuna
objectively good

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2007, 11:52:43 AM »
FE cannot explain nor predict the behavior of gravity.  If you are denying the existence of gravity (which I think you are) then there is a Nobel prize awaiting you.  You just have to prove why this is; Why centuries of observation, analysis and peer-reviewed papers are now worthless.

lol.  Gravity doesn't exist.  :D
You don't exist.

I exist more than gravity does!  >:(
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Loard Z

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2007, 11:55:04 AM »
so, how come no scientist on earth has ever HEARD of "dark energy" before?
because you JUST MADE IT UP!

ROFL. I'm dying!

HAY! I spotted it first!!!!!111one¬¬¬111~!!## LOLROFFLECOPTWRSKATES.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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eric bloedow

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2007, 12:37:09 PM »
apparently roundylicious is one of those paranoid nutcases who believes that every person on earth is part of this "conspiracy".

including all of his neighbors, all of his relatives, everyone he has ever met, etc.

the "burden of proof" is on HIM. let HIM come up with a scientific experiment that would truly prove the existence of "dark energy" or "universal accelleration".

but of course he can't, because:
1) gravity has been proven by MANY people
2) he knows NOTHING about science

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Username

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2007, 12:40:56 PM »
apparently roundylicious is one of those paranoid nutcases who believes that every person on earth is part of this "conspiracy".

including all of his neighbors, all of his relatives, everyone he has ever met, etc.

the "burden of proof" is on HIM. let HIM come up with a scientific experiment that would truly prove the existence of "dark energy" or "universal accelleration".

but of course he can't, because:
1) gravity has been proven by MANY people
2) he knows NOTHING about science

I think if anything, your posts have shown your lack of knowledge of science, not his.

Gravity doesn't exist.  See:Einstein's Relativity
So long and thanks for all the fish

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Loard Z

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2007, 12:44:01 PM »
apparently roundylicious is one of those paranoid nutcases who believes that every person on earth is part of this "conspiracy".

including all of his neighbors, all of his relatives, everyone he has ever met, etc.

the "burden of proof" is on HIM. let HIM come up with a scientific experiment that would truly prove the existence of "dark energy" or "universal accelleration".

but of course he can't, because:
1) gravity has been proven by MANY people
2) he knows NOTHING about science

1) gravity doesn't exist.
2) Dark Energy does exist.
3) I don't even believe in a Flat Earth.
4) Why don't you learn some science before you get pwned some more?
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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eric bloedow

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2007, 01:16:43 PM »
i know more about science than "username". for example, einstein's relativity theory argues in favor of gravity, not "universal accelleration" or "dark energy"!

he should read articles before he cites them.

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Loard Z

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2007, 01:21:09 PM »
i know more about science than "username". for example, einstein's relativity theory argues in favor of gravity, not "universal accelleration" or "dark energy"!

he should read articles before he cites them.

no, read it again. Einstein came up with relativity because he hypothesised that gravity as a force does not exist.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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Jack

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2007, 03:13:17 PM »
I feel incredibly sad for Isaac Newton and his work.

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Username

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2007, 03:19:33 PM »
He was an asshole anyways.
So long and thanks for all the fish

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eric bloedow

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2007, 04:02:08 PM »
you have just forfeited the contest by using cheap profanity instead of argument.

in other words, you just PROVED you are an asshole.

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Username

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2007, 04:03:28 PM »
There is no argument.  You are wrong.  Majority opinion, remember?  OR you can just understand or read that source before spouting off bull.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 04:05:07 PM by Username »
So long and thanks for all the fish

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eric bloedow

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2007, 04:06:21 PM »
yes, but RE is the majority, not FE!

or do you mean you think EVERYONE considers isaac newton an asshole? that's totally rediculous.

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2007, 04:18:17 PM »
In RE, gravity doesn't exist either.

And it is fairly commonly held that Newton was a pretty big asshat.
So long and thanks for all the fish

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Jack

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2007, 05:08:24 PM »
In RE, gravity doesn't exist either.

And it is fairly commonly held that Newton was a pretty big asshat.
Big words, indeed.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2007, 05:24:21 PM »
If you are denying the existence of gravity (which I think you are) then there is a Nobel prize awaiting you.
Einstein won it already... :'(


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eric bloedow

Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2007, 06:22:36 PM »
looks like i was right: the FE'rs HAVE filled this thread with cheap insults instead of rational discussion. how childish.

i AM saying gravity exists, the FErs are the ones denying it, they think "universal accelleration" exists and gravity does not!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Occam's Razor
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2007, 06:46:35 PM »
Einstein didn't even believe in gravity.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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