There is no god.

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Raist

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #390 on: January 17, 2008, 12:48:16 PM »
There are no odds on a non random event.

Ok, so you can't tell me whether it's more likely that I will find a tree in my backyard or on Mars?
Is that a non random event?

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Raist

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #391 on: January 17, 2008, 12:49:41 PM »
You cannot know the specific odds, but you can know for certain that they are on the side of God's not existing.

I could be wrong, but most worldly probabilities are calculated on the basis of frequency of repetition of an event. For example, the probability of a car crash in a certain stretch of road is derived from how many car crashes have happened there in a certain time (or perhaps per number of total cars).

How can we even make estimations on the odds of a one-off event or entity? We don't have other universes to study and figure out how many of them have omnipotent creators.
Ed zachary.

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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #392 on: January 17, 2008, 12:58:19 PM »
Ok, so you can't tell me whether it's more likely that I will find a tree in my backyard or on Mars?
The fact that there is a possibility that there was life on mars at one point increases the chances of finding a tree there, however, you didn't specify if it was alive or not. There is also the random possible event of someone chainsawing the trees in you garden down for shits and giggles rendering the certainty of a tree being in your garden as unknown.

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James

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #393 on: January 17, 2008, 01:42:04 PM »
Ed zachary.

Dunno who that is, but the idea I just put forward draws on a similar one formulated by Scottish philosopher David Hume (as an attack on the second Aquninan Demonstratio).
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Loard Z

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #394 on: January 17, 2008, 01:57:05 PM »
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You fail it! This failure of an argument was first formed by the failure of a materialist Richard Dawkins. This argument fails because it assumes materialism. Thus, all Abrahamic concepts of God (and many other ones as well) are unaffected by this failed argument.

What else is there apart from materialism?
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

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Raist

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #395 on: January 17, 2008, 02:49:12 PM »
Ed zachary.

Dunno who that is, but the idea I just put forward draws on a similar one formulated by Scottish philosopher David Hume (as an attack on the second Aquninan Demonstratio).
Lol it simply sounds like exactly if you sound it out.

Re: There is no god.
« Reply #396 on: January 17, 2008, 03:29:48 PM »
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You fail it! This failure of an argument was first formed by the failure of a materialist Richard Dawkins. This argument fails because it assumes materialism. Thus, all Abrahamic concepts of God (and many other ones as well) are unaffected by this failed argument.

What else is there apart from materialism?
God as a purely spiritual entity.

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Loard Z

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #397 on: January 17, 2008, 03:36:57 PM »
but a spiritual entity has no meaning.

how do you define a spiritual entity? and how does such an entity interact with the material world? surely such interactions would be 2-way?
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

Re: There is no god.
« Reply #398 on: January 17, 2008, 03:53:03 PM »
A spiritual entity is an existant non-material entity.

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Loard Z

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #399 on: January 17, 2008, 04:06:22 PM »
and how does such an entity interact with the material world? surely such interactions would be 2-way?
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

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Bushido

Re: There is no god.
« Reply #400 on: January 17, 2008, 04:53:33 PM »
You cannot know the specific odds, but you can know for certain that they are on the side of God's not existing.

I could be wrong, but most worldly probabilities are calculated on the basis of frequency of repetition of an event. For example, the probability of a car crash in a certain stretch of road is derived from how many car crashes have happened there in a certain time (or perhaps per number of total cars).

How can we even make estimations on the odds of a one-off event or entity? We don't have other universes to study and figure out how many of them have omnipotent creators.

That is what is called the statistical 'definition' of probability. Today, probability is simply defined in an axiomatic way (due to Kolmogorov) as the following:

If τ is the field of random events associated with an experiment and P: τR is a mapping satisfying the following properties:

1) P(A) ≥ 0; - positive definite
2) AB = Ø => P(AUB) = P(A) + P(B); - additivity
3) P(Ω) = 1. - normalization (Ω is the certain event)

From 2 and 3 it follows that:

P(A) = P(A U Ø) = P(A) + P(Ø)
P(Ø) = 0

That is, the probability of the impossible event (Ø) is zero. However, the converse, namely: "if the probability of a certain event is zero, then that event is impossible" is not true in general. This is obvious for the so called continous random variables. The probability of that variable for having an exact value is always zero, but, whenever an experiment is performed, an exact value is always obtained, i.e. the random event of the random variable having a definite value is not impossible.

Also, starting only from these axioms, one can directly prove the so called Law of large numbers, which gives the basis for the practical application of probability theory to statistical problems.

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Raist

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #401 on: January 17, 2008, 05:10:59 PM »
I say the laws of probablitly says that if the universe becomes old enough god eventually has to happen.

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Loard Z

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #402 on: January 17, 2008, 09:10:18 PM »
what do you mean by the statement "god eventually has to happen?"
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

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dysfunction

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #403 on: January 17, 2008, 09:32:34 PM »
I say the laws of probablitly says that if the universe becomes old enough god eventually has to happen.

In an infinitely old universe, yes, all possible things would occur. But who says God is possible?
the cake is a lie

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Loard Z

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #404 on: January 17, 2008, 09:33:40 PM »
man will evolve into god.

Then woman  will once again be his bitch and do the damn dishes when she's told to.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

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dysfunction

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #405 on: January 17, 2008, 09:35:17 PM »
Althalus, you don't seem to understand how definitions are laid out in dictionaries. When you have a definition in the form <word><part of speech>< def. 1><def. 2><def 3.><def. ...>, these are multiple possible definitions being laid out, not multiple parts of one definition that must all always apply. For instance, if we look at Oxford's definition of 'dog':

Quote
dog

  • noun 1 a domesticated carnivorous mammal with a barking or howling voice and an acute sense of smell. 2 a wild animal resembling this, in particular any member of the dog family (Canidae), which includes the wolf, fox, coyote, jackal, and other species. 3 the male of such an animal. 4 (the dogs) Brit. informal greyhound racing. 5 informal, derogatory an unattractive woman. 6 informal a contemptible man. 7 dated a person of a specified kind: you lucky dog!

We see that no one use of 'dog' could possibly meet all these definitions. These are simply the several different accepted uses of the term.

Thus, since 'fictional' is only one of the possible definitions for 'mythical' or 'mythological', and God meets every one of the other given definitions, God may be considered mythical.

Still waiting for Althalus to respond to this.
the cake is a lie

Re: There is no god.
« Reply #406 on: January 18, 2008, 03:49:05 AM »
I'll get around to it eventually.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #407 on: January 18, 2008, 05:12:21 PM »
Just wait.  It takes time to bullshit reasonably!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: There is no god.
« Reply #408 on: January 18, 2008, 05:16:17 PM »
Just wait.  It takes time to bullshit reasonably!
I've been swamped with homework and am sort of tired of being the only one arguing one side in a debate that will never convince anyone.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #409 on: January 18, 2008, 05:36:49 PM »
You don't have to convince anyone. 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Midnight

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #410 on: January 19, 2008, 02:14:46 AM »
Tell that to the sausages.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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James

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #411 on: January 19, 2008, 10:04:41 AM »
In an infinitely old universe, yes, all possible things would occur. But who says God is possible?

They wouldn't, actually. An infinite series of anything does not have to contain every possible iteration - 1/3 creates a number with an infinite number of decimal places, but the number 7 doesn't occur in them.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Username

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #412 on: January 19, 2008, 12:41:20 PM »
In an infinitely old universe, yes, all possible things would occur. But who says God is possible?

They wouldn't, actually. An infinite series of anything does not have to contain every possible iteration - 1/3 creates a number with an infinite number of decimal places, but the number 7 doesn't occur in them.
I believe, if i recall correctly, and I may well not since I can't find the reference source I read this out of, that whether something occurs in an infinite universe 0, 1, or infinite times has to do with the probability of it existing.

I think:
If theres a finite probability of it happening: there is an infinite number
If the probability is infinitesimal then there is 1.
If the probability is 0... then there is none.

So it would have at least 1 of anything that is possible.  However, as dys pointed out, is god possible?  Definitely a religious/philosophical question and not a mathematical or science question yet.


In your example the probability of, for example, a 1 appearing is 0, and thus none would be found because its not possible.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 12:47:07 PM by Username »
So long and thanks for all the fish

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dysfunction

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #413 on: January 19, 2008, 07:41:07 PM »
Actually, 'Is God possible?' was a rhetorical question. Certainly it is a philosophical question whether God exists. However, Raist's assertion was that God would arise in an infinitely old universe. This relies on the assumption that in an infinite universe all things are possible; this is not the case. Rather, in an infinite universe all possible things are inevitable. It is a philosophical question whether God exists in a spiritual realm outside the physical universe we know; it is entirely a scientific question whether God will come to be in the infinite lifespan of the physical universe. A scientific question answered readily enough: the answer is no.
the cake is a lie

Re: There is no god.
« Reply #414 on: January 20, 2008, 01:44:34 AM »
Furthermore if a god came into existence simply by probability it could not be omnipotent or omnipotent as it could only exist within the universe.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 01:51:01 AM by Althalus »

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divito the truthist

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #415 on: January 20, 2008, 05:35:29 AM »
I say the laws of probablitly says that if the universe becomes old enough god eventually has to happen.

Like this: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=15478.0
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
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objectively good

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nicolin

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #416 on: January 20, 2008, 01:46:45 PM »
The Trinity are undividable in essence, Jesus is part of God. I SAID THAT JESUS IS NOT THE ENTIRETY OF GOD THAT IS WHAT I SAID. I DID NOT SAY THAT JESUS IS NOT ENTIRELY GOD, I SAID HE IS NOT THE ENTIRTY OF GOD.
Quote
You fail it! This failure of an argument was first formed by the failure of a materialist Richard Dawkins. This argument fails because it assumes materialism. Thus, all Abrahamic concepts of God (and many other ones as well) are unaffected by this failed argument.

What else is there apart from materialism?
God as a purely spiritual entity.
A spiritual entity is an existant non-material entity.
So, Jesus, who is part of God was material, but God is purely spiritual?
You, sir, fail miserably!
Curat murdar, Coane Fanica!

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Username

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #417 on: January 20, 2008, 02:23:44 PM »
Actually, 'Is God possible?' was a rhetorical question. Certainly it is a philosophical question whether God exists. However, Raist's assertion was that God would arise in an infinitely old universe. This relies on the assumption that in an infinite universe all things are possible; this is not the case. Rather, in an infinite universe all possible things are inevitable. It is a philosophical question whether God exists in a spiritual realm outside the physical universe we know; it is entirely a scientific question whether God will come to be in the infinite lifespan of the physical universe. A scientific question answered readily enough: the answer is no.
You seem to be claiming that "is the existance of God possible"  is a scientific question at this time and that the answer is "no".  Is that right?
So long and thanks for all the fish

Re: There is no god.
« Reply #418 on: January 20, 2008, 03:03:29 PM »
So, Jesus, who is part of God was material, but God is purely spiritual?
You, sir, fail miserably!
The Son is part of God, the Son was incarnated in Jesus. This is simply the spiritual interacting with the material.

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Midnight

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Re: There is no god.
« Reply #419 on: January 20, 2008, 05:03:54 PM »
It is all bullshit, regardless. That much is certifiable fact.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.