America declares war on Fire

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2007, 03:39:21 PM »
Yes. What an Empire. Built on slavery, exploitation and Queen Vic's ample bosom.

It's what most empires are built on. Roman, Viking (was that an empire?) Egyptian, Chinese

Well, you have every reason to be proud of that.  :-\

Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not an imperialist who mourns the loss of the Empire. But we do have the honour of being possibly the biggest Imperial force in the world

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Jack

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2007, 04:08:20 PM »
"The Sun Never Sets on the British Empire."

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Raist

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2007, 05:42:56 PM »
Yes. What an Empire. Built on slavery, exploitation and Queen Vic's ample bosom.

It's what most empires are built on. Roman, Viking (was that an empire?) Egyptian, Chinese
Vikings never had an empire. They just stole from a shitload of people.....wait isn't that what england did.....

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token

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2007, 08:56:29 PM »
Wait, so Vikings were Pirates?
Maybe I will!

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2007, 04:51:29 AM »
Yes. What an Empire. Built on slavery, exploitation and Queen Vic's ample bosom.

It's what most empires are built on. Roman, Viking (was that an empire?) Egyptian, Chinese
Vikings never had an empire. They just stole from a shitload of people.....wait isn't that what england did.....

Yup. Same as all empires. It's less fun to put people under the Iron Fist of Imperial rule if they actually want it!

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Raist

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2007, 06:29:57 PM »
Wait, so Vikings were Pirates?
Yeah. The FIRST pirates.

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token

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2007, 06:20:25 PM »
Inform the PoC fangirls!
Maybe I will!

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narcberry

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2007, 07:57:30 PM »
Superpowers and their abuse of power.

Can you really abuse power? What does that even mean? Pull some power out of your luggage and whack it with a stick?


You liberals are worse than you accuse Bush of being. No wonder you hate him so much, he reminds you of yourselves. Hippies.

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Jack

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2007, 08:07:11 PM »
Superpowers and their abuse of power.

Can you really abuse power? What does that even mean? Pull some power out of your luggage and whack it with a stick?
Eh, it means a superpower misusing its own military, political, and economical power. In politics, power means influence.

You liberals are worse than you accuse Bush of being. No wonder you hate him so much, he reminds you of yourselves. Hippies.
Sure, why not.

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Raist

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2007, 02:15:23 PM »
I don't hate bush. I love it.

Though i like it trimmed neatly like most girls do.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2007, 03:31:37 PM »
Superpowers and their abuse of power.

Can you really abuse power? What does that even mean? Pull some power out of your luggage and whack it with a stick?


You liberals are worse than you accuse Bush of being. No wonder you hate him so much, he reminds you of yourselves. Hippies.

Power Corrupts
Ultimate Power Corrupts Ultimately

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Masterchef

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2007, 04:55:33 PM »
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2007, 11:28:36 AM »
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

<_< and that...

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Loard Z

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2007, 06:10:40 AM »
Sexual power corrupts sexually.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

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theonlydann

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2007, 11:45:22 AM »
horse power corrupts horses?

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Raist

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2007, 12:36:01 PM »
No, but it corrupts hoarsely.

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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2007, 05:18:10 AM »
I love George W. Bush, he's such a funny president.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

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Username

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2007, 03:29:53 AM »
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
No, he was obviously talking about the Real Ultimate Power.
If you can't arrgue both sidess, you understand neither

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Raist

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2007, 03:22:30 PM »
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
No, he was obviously talking about the Real Ultimate Power.
Vagina? It gives women ultimate power over men. And turns them into penguins.

QED.

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Optimus Prime

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2007, 06:44:50 PM »
LOL @ Raist... nice.

My 2 cents on the Iraq War... a buddy of mine is over there right now. I get to talk to him probably once a month or so, he'll be coming back sometime in May I think. He's been there a LONG time now.

I don't think the news is being reported completely to be honest. I mean, I've heard people ranting about talk radio and such, but I admit ouright that I don't keep up with that stuff... but to be blunt, in talking with him and some of his friends when they crowd in on the camera, it seems like things are actually really starting to pick up over there.

It's a long road to go, but there are all kinds of people returning to there homes. He's biggest thing as of the last few times I've talked to him is how amazing it is compared to just 6 months ago as to how willing people are to point out trouble spots and inform on possible and known terrorists. It's amazing!! He even emailed me a vid of a new radio station tower they put up there.

I'm not an idiot, I realize it's a terrible war and people are still dying and hurting almost every day, but the point is... it's getting exponentially better - but it seems nobody wants to report that (except on like page 10 or something of a newspaper).

Ah well, this is getting far too long for the attention span of a forum post. Seeya!

OP
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cpt_bthimes

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2007, 01:00:35 PM »
Quote
This whole idea of "America declares war on Fire" is basically a symbolism to the War on Terror, simply because the Americans are fighting a war in which they can't possibly win.

wrong.  we can win.  it just depends on the definition of winning.  this may seem like an oblique argument and word-parsing, but it is entirely relevant, and actually at the very core of the debate on the gwot.  in warfare, it not a widely or publicly known, but an absolute fact taught directly or indirectly in all military academies and rotc schools, that there is no such thing as "winning" in terms of checkers or monopoly.  there is not a war in history that has been "won" in those terms.  there are only various shades of not losing, when all the short and long-term costs are added up.  in fact, sometimes the "losers" are in fact the "winners", through the eyes of history.  unfortunately or not, that filter is not how war planning nor battle decisions are typically made.

john kerry once said he would like to see terrorism reduced to a level of "nuisance".  while i will not reveal my feelings for the man, i will point out that he was ridiculed for that statement.  yet countless military expert think-tanks staffed with active and retired generals of all stars, cols, and ex-cia, fbi, and nsa agents of various political persuasions have said the exact same thing, often in publicly published papers, just in alot more words.  not a single goddamned civilian i have ever met (or asked) has read a single one. 

so make not mistake, in that context, america *can* "win" against terrorism.  and that will likely be the best we'll ever achieve - whether against islamic extremism, or whatever the next most significant threat comes after that goes out of fashion (and it will).  whether or not americans and the rest of the world are willing to stomach the consequences of such a "victories" (some would argue the emergence of a global police/militarized state though i don't necessarily agree), is another question.

another way to "win" is to nuke the entire middle east to glass and ash.  at one time that fantasy was vaguely appealing to me though i wouldn't have admitted it because, well, millions of innocent people would die as a direct outcome alone.  yet it seems that remains a fantasy for a significant number of americans and other nationalities.  either way, as a result of such an action, there would be pesky consequences both immediate and long-term (radioactive fallout wouldn't be as bad as many think, with the fusion reaction secondaries of modern warheads), annoying moral issues, and the cold hard fact that any apparent win is actually not, since no war is ever actually won.  (don't mistake this acknowledgment of a global intellectual point of view, with a retrospective opinion on my own service and sacrifice.)

"terrorism" is a method of irregular warfare, as old as warfare itself.  as long as any relatively homogeneous group (based on race, class, ideology, and/or other factors) finds itself in opposition to another homogeneous group, while also being relatively politically impotent and militarily outclassed, it will resort to asymmetrical warfare - aka guerrilla, terrorism, etc., if and when it decides violent conflict is the only solution.  (which is often - which is why purposely branding and excluding potential extremist groups from the political process are the historically and continually repeated worst courses of action).  technically speaking, the asymmetrical warfare that the continental army engaged in during the early days of the american revolution, could be called "terrorism" if you really wanted to - from the point of view of the british.  from our point of view, it was justified asymmetrical warfare.

always remember.  the enemy is always evil.  no matter which side you're on.  otherwise, how could you kill them?  leaders make war, not their people.

none of this is an argument for moral relativism though, even though these same points are often used as such.  "one man's terrorist" is *not* necessarily "another man's freedom fighter".  but these understandings are critical to waging an effective war.  as robert s. macnamera once said, in order to defeat the enemy, you must empathize with him.  not sympathize, empathize.  understand his motives.  walk a mile in his shoes.  and use that understanding for strategic and tactical advantage.  the act of demonizing the enemy *prevents* such empathizing, clouds the mind, and is a barrier to objectives large and small.  it is one reason (out of many) the axis lost and the allies won.  (winning and losing being relative terms mind you.)

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cpt_bthimes

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2007, 01:01:53 PM »

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cpt_bthimes

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2007, 01:17:29 PM »
... a buddy of mine is over there right now. I get to talk to him probably once a month or so, he'll be coming back sometime in May I think. He's been there a LONG time now....it seems like things are actually really starting to pick up over there.

sincerely no offense to you or him, but he must be enlisted.

furthermore, that image is what is beginning to be propagated in the mainstream press.  and as it has always been, they have it wrong.  (you can read whatever apparently - and probably - paradoxical implications you want to out of that.)

i'm not going to express my opinion of the way i think it really is.  plus even if i did, i am admittedly a little biased.  but the whole region is a powder keg.  enlisted grunts have a very narrow picture of what's going on, and it fluctuates wildly and disproportionately to reality.  mid-level officers have a slightly less but still narrow view of the operational picture.  and finally, the four-stars don't even have the whole picture.  but those that do have the whole picture, don't.  they only have the picture of the u.s. picture there, and only a fuzzy understanding of the region's ancient geopolitical picture.  (or even the picture manufactured since the end of wwii).  which is not the whole picture.  i'm not suggesting i somehow have the whole picture that much smarter people in the state department and pentagon don't.  no way.  but the fact is, the entire region is a powder keg. 

i do believe our presence there - forget for the moment the original reasons for getting there (mostly in iraq) - is serving as a temporary stabilizing influence.  but it is only one finger in a huge damn bursting in many places.  once the main body of force is gone - and we can't stay there forever because we are bankrupting ourselves [*we* come first, i'm sorry] - a flood of violence from multiple competing factions, states, and quasi-states, will erupt.  ...if not before we even withdraw. 

(we will always...*always* have a presence there, btw, no matter what lies or self-delusions any political candidate tells you, even if ron paul and obama get in the white mixed-race house.)

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Midnight

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2007, 01:22:30 PM »
wrong.  we can win.

I await your parade and tickers, my child. Oh wait, if we win, they have to stop the war. War means cash. Cash means memoirs. We cannot defile the legacy! Long live the King..:-*
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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cpt_bthimes

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2007, 01:42:27 PM »
wrong.  we can win.

I await your parade and tickers, my child. Oh wait, if we win, they have to stop the war. War means cash. Cash means memoirs. We cannot defile the legacy! Long live the King..:-*

sigh...you have such a 5th-grade pseudo-liberal world view.  and are immune from being educated.  the funniest part is that you think you have it all figured out.  you are the *perfect* foil for the puffery of the pseudo-conservatives.  you little morons just keep each other occupied but are too afraid and too grossly misinformed to do anything about your narcissistic "convictions" about the way the world works.  i'm amazed you don't believe the world is flat.  run along now.

is there an "ignore" button?

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Midnight

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2007, 01:48:13 PM »
sigh...you have such a 5th-grade pseudo-liberal world view.

Your definition of liberal betrays you, kid.

the funniest part is that you think you have it all figured out.

Nah, just more of it than your self-righetous, crusader ilk.

you are the *perfect* foil for the puffery of the pseudo-conservatives.

God HIMSELF has no idea what you just said. Patterns emerge.

you little morons just keep each other occupied but are too afraid and too grossly misinformed to do anything about your narcissistic "convictions" about the way the world works.  i'm amazed you don't believe the world is flat.

You know my beliefs, my leanings, my behavior, and my routine? Damn, you must be Lex Luthor!

run along now.

I am, running you into a frenzied attempt at maintaining the delusion that you matter, at all, at the end of all things. Your ego needs more syrup.

is there an "ignore" button?

Every post you make at Tommy Boy is an ignore button. Notice he doesn't respond? You and my self actually have that much in common, he is my Nemesis, and he knows it. Your attempts are inspired, but you could learn from me, if you had the emotional IQ to put aside insults, and actually read before you type. You are not in the equation, but I admire your spirit.

Run along now, indeed.

Click here for tough guy on the internet.

I am beyond you. Evolve.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 01:51:24 PM by Midnight »
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Loard Z

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2007, 02:02:54 AM »
I am beyond all things...
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

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Althalus

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2007, 03:09:44 AM »
Chris Spaghetti is like Chris Pastrami but not tasty.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2007, 05:16:12 AM »
Quote
This whole idea of "America declares war on Fire" is basically a symbolism to the War on Terror, simply because the Americans are fighting a war in which they can't possibly win.

wrong.  we can win.  it just depends on the definition of winning.  this may seem like an oblique argument and word-parsing, but it is entirely relevant, and actually at the very core of the debate on the gwot.  in warfare, it not a widely or publicly known, but an absolute fact taught directly or indirectly in all military academies and rotc schools, that there is no such thing as "winning" in terms of checkers or monopoly.  there is not a war in history that has been "won" in those terms.  there are only various shades of not losing, when all the short and long-term costs are added up.  in fact, sometimes the "losers" are in fact the "winners", through the eyes of history.  unfortunately or not, that filter is not how war planning nor battle decisions are typically made.

john kerry once said he would like to see terrorism reduced to a level of "nuisance".  while i will not reveal my feelings for the man, i will point out that he was ridiculed for that statement.  yet countless military expert think-tanks staffed with active and retired generals of all stars, cols, and ex-cia, fbi, and nsa agents of various political persuasions have said the exact same thing, often in publicly published papers, just in alot more words.  not a single goddamned civilian i have ever met (or asked) has read a single one. 

so make not mistake, in that context, america *can* "win" against terrorism.  and that will likely be the best we'll ever achieve - whether against islamic extremism, or whatever the next most significant threat comes after that goes out of fashion (and it will).  whether or not americans and the rest of the world are willing to stomach the consequences of such a "victories" (some would argue the emergence of a global police/militarized state though i don't necessarily agree), is another question.

another way to "win" is to nuke the entire middle east to glass and ash.  at one time that fantasy was vaguely appealing to me though i wouldn't have admitted it because, well, millions of innocent people would die as a direct outcome alone.  yet it seems that remains a fantasy for a significant number of americans and other nationalities.  either way, as a result of such an action, there would be pesky consequences both immediate and long-term (radioactive fallout wouldn't be as bad as many think, with the fusion reaction secondaries of modern warheads), annoying moral issues, and the cold hard fact that any apparent win is actually not, since no war is ever actually won.  (don't mistake this acknowledgment of a global intellectual point of view, with a retrospective opinion on my own service and sacrifice.)

"terrorism" is a method of irregular warfare, as old as warfare itself.  as long as any relatively homogeneous group (based on race, class, ideology, and/or other factors) finds itself in opposition to another homogeneous group, while also being relatively politically impotent and militarily outclassed, it will resort to asymmetrical warfare - aka guerrilla, terrorism, etc., if and when it decides violent conflict is the only solution.  (which is often - which is why purposely branding and excluding potential extremist groups from the political process are the historically and continually repeated worst courses of action).  technically speaking, the asymmetrical warfare that the continental army engaged in during the early days of the american revolution, could be called "terrorism" if you really wanted to - from the point of view of the british.  from our point of view, it was justified asymmetrical warfare.

always remember.  the enemy is always evil.  no matter which side you're on.  otherwise, how could you kill them?  leaders make war, not their people.

none of this is an argument for moral relativism though, even though these same points are often used as such.  "one man's terrorist" is *not* necessarily "another man's freedom fighter".  but these understandings are critical to waging an effective war.  as robert s. macnamera once said, in order to defeat the enemy, you must empathize with him.  not sympathize, empathize.  understand his motives.  walk a mile in his shoes.  and use that understanding for strategic and tactical advantage.  the act of demonizing the enemy *prevents* such empathizing, clouds the mind, and is a barrier to objectives large and small.  it is one reason (out of many) the axis lost and the allies won.  (winning and losing being relative terms mind you.)

the problem is that this isn't really a 'war' involving one side against the other or a couple of sides facing another. Terrorism isn't military, it's criminal (at least in terms of Western Terrorism) Lots of big guns aren't going to win this, and neither are the brave efforts of everyone fighting out there (kudos to the troops for sticking with it despite the unfair levelles of critisism against them) because this is against unreasonable nutters.

"I blow you up, i get eternal bliss" How can you argue against that?

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Optimus Prime

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Re: America declares war on Fire
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2007, 08:12:41 AM »
That is where I have to disagree. There are many people with that same view... this is not really a 'war' per se, as it is a fight against terrorism, etc. etc.

The problem with that thought process is that people don't seem to understand the reality of the threat. I personally could not make it through even one of them without turning away and nearly losing my lunch... but perhaps people need to take another look over the various videos we've been sent of not just the Arabs, but our own people - not even soldiers, but news reporters, people on vacations, etc. - getting their heads *sawed* off.

I wonder if many people even realize how truly grotesque this enemy is, and the problem with just picking up and going home is... if you leave before you're sure the locals can hold their own against them - all your'e doing is inviting this enemy in particular the chance to wait it out, be fruitful and multiply, and take over their own lands again and they'll just come after the rest of the world (including us) as soon as they get the brass to do so, and the people in place to do it.

They obviously have the brass - because they're friggin insane, so all they really need are the numbers. We can't leave those people over there to do this on their own until they have their own forces built up enough and up to speed.

Which is happening by the way. The Iraq soldiers are really starting to show their own and are taking more and more responsibility for local issues and skirmishes.

I truly wish people could just see what they are up against, see the progress that's being made and how it's rapidly improving in these last few months, and understand that we really aren't going to be there forever - it's a matter of ensuring that when we leave, we're leaving a fully functional and well trained fighting force behind that can take care of their new country.

Anyway, sorry to have rambled along for so long, but I really think people need to understand that this is indeed *war*. The candy coated term of "War on Terror" has just made the whole thing worse I think.

Have a good one
- Optimus

Dyslexics are teople poo!