LOgic is back

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The Communist

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LOgic is back
« on: October 12, 2007, 06:23:34 PM »
Why did you disappear for many moons?
On FES, you attack a strawman. In Soviet Russia, the strawman attacks you
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Do you have any outlandish claims to back up your evidence?
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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2007, 06:25:07 PM »
Hey LOgic, what was your Round Earth website address?

Nice to have you back

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2007, 08:57:11 PM »
Thanks, nice to be back.  :D

The evidence me and others collected are deposited here:
http://roundearth.informe.com/index.php

I left after a brief troll infestation pissed me off. I usually keep browsers open and continually minimize them and reopen them to check forums. After I closed it, I forgot about it and never got around to checking it again. ...Until now.
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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2007, 10:39:31 PM »
Who are you now?

~D-Draw

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2007, 10:33:08 AM »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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BOGWarrior89

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 06:34:29 PM »
Welcome back.  You're just in time to leave again.

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 09:25:44 PM »
I'm sorry, but your failure to leave a standing imprint on my memory is no fault of mine.


Anyways, let's put the past behind us, have a fling in Las Vegas and spontaneously get married, doll face.


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Lorcan

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2007, 01:22:32 AM »
Your Round Earth Society forum looks like a good one. I like the layout and the many points and arguments made for a round Earth. I'd have to guess that there aren't many flat earthers going over there to debate it.

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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2007, 05:46:28 PM »
Thanks, nice to be back.  :D

The evidence me and others collected are deposited here:
http://roundearth.informe.com/index.php

Quote from: L0gic at his Roundearth site
Sure, that sounds plausible. First of all, everything radiation patterns from the big bang to carbon dating of rocks in the planet says that the Earth is pretty darn old. If acceleration caused gravity, we would have passed the speed of light a long time ago. Yeah. Exponents can do that.

FLAW IN DEFENSE: SEDIMENTARY DEPOSITS AND SUPERPOSITION
One more thing, the deeper people dig, the more compact the rock. If someone goes to say that it is not caused by the compression due to Round Earth gravity but to an external force pushing the disk-shaped Earth up, I would note that this would contradict the explanation of aerial crafts like hang gliders and airplanes.
Classic.

Quote from: L0gic
Hahaha! Owned!
Yes, owned indeed.


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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2007, 08:31:09 AM »
Don't sweat it Diego, I only remember you for your willful incompetence.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2007, 08:52:36 AM »
TheEngineer, you're so harsh.

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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2007, 09:08:07 AM »
I was hoping Logic would defend his site, but I guess not...


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2007, 02:15:35 PM »
You hope for too much.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2007, 06:49:22 PM »
I was hoping Logic would defend his site, but I guess not...

Defend my site? From what offense do need play defense? ???
I assume mocking me without the slightest bit of factual information isn't an actual attack lol?
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 07:34:39 PM »
Quote from: L0gic at his Roundearth site
Sure, that sounds plausible. First of all, everything radiation patterns from the big bang to carbon dating of rocks in the planet says that the Earth is pretty darn old. If acceleration caused gravity, we would have passed the speed of light a long time ago. Yeah. Exponents can do that.

FLAW IN DEFENSE: SEDIMENTARY DEPOSITS AND SUPERPOSITION
One more thing, the deeper people dig, the more compact the rock. If someone goes to say that it is not caused by the compression due to Round Earth gravity but to an external force pushing the disk-shaped Earth up, I would note that this would contradict the explanation of aerial crafts like hang gliders and airplanes.

What about your facts?  Did you just make all this stuff up?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Loard Z

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2007, 09:13:47 PM »
Quote from: L0gic at his Roundearth site
Sure, that sounds plausible. First of all, everything radiation patterns from the big bang to carbon dating of rocks in the planet says that the Earth is pretty darn old. If acceleration caused gravity, we would have passed the speed of light a long time ago. Yeah. Exponents can do that.

FLAW IN DEFENSE: SEDIMENTARY DEPOSITS AND SUPERPOSITION
One more thing, the deeper people dig, the more compact the rock. If someone goes to say that it is not caused by the compression due to Round Earth gravity but to an external force pushing the disk-shaped Earth up, I would note that this would contradict the explanation of aerial crafts like hang gliders and airplanes.

What about your facts?  Did you just make all this stuff up?

I agree, there is some weak theory there.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2007, 09:32:02 AM »
thirded
Quantum Ab Hoc

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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2007, 10:30:59 PM »
Quote from: L0gic at his Roundearth site
Sure, that sounds plausible. First of all, everything radiation patterns from the big bang to carbon dating of rocks in the planet says that the Earth is pretty darn old. If acceleration caused gravity, we would have passed the speed of light a long time ago. Yeah. Exponents can do that.

FLAW IN DEFENSE: SEDIMENTARY DEPOSITS AND SUPERPOSITION
One more thing, the deeper people dig, the more compact the rock. If someone goes to say that it is not caused by the compression due to Round Earth gravity but to an external force pushing the disk-shaped Earth up, I would note that this would contradict the explanation of aerial crafts like hang gliders and airplanes.

What about your facts?  Did you just make all this stuff up?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2007, 08:22:09 PM »
Bump.  We are waiting with baited breath, L0gic.


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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2007, 10:00:00 PM »
...What part of that do you need factual citations on? Note the date that was posted and consider I don't check this section often (general discussion).
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 10:12:18 PM by L0gic »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2007, 10:51:48 PM »
Quote from: L0gic at his Roundearth site
If acceleration caused gravity, we would have passed the speed of light a long time ago. Yeah. Exponents can do that.
That part.

Quote
If someone goes to say that it is not caused by the compression due to Round Earth gravity but to an external force pushing the disk-shaped Earth up, I would note that this would contradict the explanation of aerial crafts like hang gliders and airplanes.
And that part.  You know, the parts I quoted.


I just noticed this one on your site too:
Quote
The Round Earth theory doesn't leave gaping holes in the sources of such massive amounts of energy.
Dark Energy.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 10:54:24 PM by TheEngineer »


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2007, 10:37:19 AM »
Bump.  Still waiting.


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Captain Alitus

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2007, 10:46:11 AM »
Dark energy has no relation to the shape of the earth D: D: D: D:
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2007, 05:44:54 PM »
Quote from: L0gic at his Roundearth site
If acceleration caused gravity, we would have passed the speed of light a long time ago. Yeah. Exponents can do that.
That part.
I have debated that heavily in other threads. What are you looking for then? The derivative relationship of acceleration and velocity? You horribly abuse reference frames to meet your own purposes. Another moderator admits it:
According to the Flat Earthers, Earth is a short, wide cylinder, several thousand miles across but only a few miles thick, and gravity is caused by some force accelerating the whole planet at a constant rate of 9.8m/s/s, meaning Earth would have accelerated past lightspeed one year after acceleration began. Since the Earth has had gravity much longer than one year, this claim is demonstrably false, but that doesn't bother them.

Quote
Quote
If someone goes to say that it is not caused by the compression due to Round Earth gravity but to an external force pushing the disk-shaped Earth up, I would note that this would contradict the explanation of aerial crafts like hang gliders and airplanes.
And that part.  You know, the parts I quoted.
Its hard to believe you do0n't see the problems on your own. Consider a hang glider in RE. He glides on the air resisting gravity by immediate wind power from his own speed creating upward thrust. On the FE model, the Earth is accelerating up to him with him remaining at the same height from a marco-perspective. The problem with this is FE depends on the Earth pushing the air pushing the hang glider in order to maintain distance from the ground. Resiting a still object doesn't require accelerating yourself up at 9.8 to maintain the effect of constant altitude. An immovable object (for hypothetical and demonstrative purposes) would appear to fall at 9.8m/secē. On FE, the earth is accelerating up so the thrust of wind power would not equal the maintaining relative altitude on RE where someone appears suspend by calm gliding.

FE would require the air to push up on the hang glider with near equal force as the Earth while he is in the sky. Your original thought of accelerating the Earth was clever, but you simplified it in your minds to have the same effect in RE and FE leaving you vulnerable to attack. rar.
Quote
I just noticed this one on your site too:
Quote
The Round Earth theory doesn't leave gaping holes in the sources of such massive amounts of energy.
Dark Energy.

Ah, dark energy: the hypothetical power source for an expanding universe. That's relevant specifically to RE.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 05:47:24 PM by L0gic »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2007, 05:49:52 PM »
btw, I would like your thoughts here and here:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17436.0
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17759.0

NOTE: To save you reading, it appears the 4th page isn't filled with anything useful... so far.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2007, 09:35:55 PM »
I have debated that heavily in other threads. What are you looking for then? The derivative relationship of acceleration and velocity?
Yes.  I want to see your reasoning, as you are making no sense.

Quote
You horribly abuse reference frames to meet your own purposes. Another moderator admits it:
According to the Flat Earthers, Earth is a short, wide cylinder, several thousand miles across but only a few miles thick, and gravity is caused by some force accelerating the whole planet at a constant rate of 9.8m/s/s, meaning Earth would have accelerated past lightspeed one year after acceleration began. Since the Earth has had gravity much longer than one year, this claim is demonstrably false, but that doesn't bother them.
If you notice the date of that post, it was a mere 3 days after he joined.  Within the same thread, he sees the error in his thinking:
Ok, according to the guys at physicsforums.com, Erasmus' explanation is correct

Quote
Consider a hang glider in RE. He glides on the air resisting gravity by immediate wind power from his own speed creating upward thrust. On the FE model, the Earth is accelerating up to him with him remaining at the same height from a marco-perspective. The problem with this is FE depends on the Earth pushing the air pushing the hang glider in order to maintain distance from the ground. Resiting a still object doesn't require accelerating yourself up at 9.8 to maintain the effect of constant altitude. An immovable object (for hypothetical and demonstrative purposes) would appear to fall at 9.8m/secē. On FE, the earth is accelerating up so the thrust of wind power would not equal the maintaining relative altitude on RE where someone appears suspend by calm gliding.
The earth is accelerating up to him at 9.8m/s^2, so in order for him to maintain his altitude, he must produce an upwards acceleration of 9.8m/s^2 via lift.  I fail to see the complication.  Perhaps you should brush up on the Equivalence Principle.

Quote from: L0gic
Quote from: L0gic
The Round Earth theory doesn't leave gaping holes in the sources of such massive amounts of energy.
Ah, dark energy: the hypothetical power source for an expanding universe. That's relevant specifically to RE.
Right.  So what about the massive amount of energy?


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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2007, 03:48:16 PM »
Bump to get an answer.


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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2007, 04:27:50 PM »
-wonders if L0gic will admit his faults-

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2007, 01:19:51 PM »
We should probably relocate this to debate rather than keep it in general discussion..  :D
What are you looking for then? The derivative relationship of acceleration and velocity?
Yes.
Ok then. This seems rather elementary... but anyways:
Velocity is the distance an object travels divided by the time it takes it to do so. (with direction)
Acceleration is the derivative of velocity meaning the change in velocity over time, or distance over time squared. If you have taken a Calculus class, (I'm pretty sure you have) acceleration is the slope of the graph of velocity and time, where velocity is a function of time.

All thats left is plugging in the lowest estimation of the age of the universe and assuming that the Earth's original velocity was nearly the speed of light straight down. (To allow for the greatest time duration of constant acceleration before reaching the speed of light in the opposite direction)

Quote from: TheEngineer
The earth is accelerating up to him at 9.8m/s^2, so in order for him to maintain his altitude, he must produce an upwards acceleration of 9.8m/s^2 via lift.  I fail to see the complication.  Perhaps you should brush up on the Equivalence Principle.

The equivalence principle applies to standing on the ground and feeling the same effect the if a force is applied. A person in free fall doesn't feel any force but that doesn't necessarily mean one isn't acting on him. (we only detect force by different portions of our bodies accelerating differently than others. For instance, eyes become the primary sensors of movement for astronauts (if you believe in astronauts lol). More to the point, I believe problems arise when you say that the Earth is accelerating at 9.8 m/sē and also claim that that acceleration causes warping of space that attracts objects. Might I ask, how is an object that's in the air not relatively accelerating towards the Earth the full 9.8 m/sē plus additional attraction from the gravitation (from acceleration) of the Earth? Both influences would compound the effect and the object would appear to be more attracted would it not?

Quote
Quote from: L0gic
Ah, dark energy: the hypothetical power source for an expanding universe. That's relevant specifically to RE.
Right.  So what about the massive amount of energy?
I wasn't serious when I said it was relevant or that it was specific to the shape of the Earth. RE theory doesn't depend on dark energy like FE depends on the UA. [sarcasm]Next time I'll use sarcasm tags.[/sarcasm]

-wonders if L0gic will admit his faults-

I have no problem admitting my mistakes, because I know I'm not infallible nor omniscient. Should I come to a conclusion that your theory does have explanations for my thoughts then I will admit it. Besides, carrying an idea further and BS'ing it to death would only prove Narberry and I have something in substantial common. Quite frankly, I rather die.  :'(

I would like your thoughts here and here:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17436.0
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17759.0
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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TheEngineer

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Re: LOgic is back
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2007, 01:39:57 PM »
We should probably relocate this to debate rather than keep it in general discussion..  :D
What are you looking for then? The derivative relationship of acceleration and velocity?
Yes.
Ok then. This seems rather elementary... but anyways:
Velocity is the distance an object travels divided by the time it takes it to do so. (with direction)
Acceleration is the derivative of velocity meaning the change in velocity over time, or distance over time squared. If you have taken a Calculus class, (I'm pretty sure you have) acceleration is the slope of the graph of velocity and time, where velocity is a function of time.
Right.  And there is your problem.  A = dv/dt is a low speed approximation.  The FE is not low speed.  You need to take relativistic effects into account.  Doing so, means an object can accelerate at a constant rate forever, and never reach the speed of light.  Point to FE.

Quote
The equivalence principle applies to standing on the ground and feeling the same effect the if a force is applied.
The Equivalence Principle applies locally, everywhere.  It doesn't matter if you are standing on the ground or hanging from a tree swing.  There is no local experiment, observation or thought example, that is explained by 'gravity' that can not be explained by acceleration.  Thanks be to the Equivalence Principle. 

The 9.8m/s^2 acceleration is due to the acceleration of the FE, as the FET holds that the earth does not create a gravitational field.

Quote
I wasn't serious when I said it was relevant or that it was specific to the shape of the Earth. RE theory doesn't depend on dark energy like FE depends on the UA.
So?  You stated the RE does not have a massive energy source.  Dark Energy is one such source.  You get to have one, but the FET can't?





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