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Gravity: a repost

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Jack

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2007, 06:53:05 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on October 19, 2007, 09:34:33 AM
You RE'ers do realize that gravity and gravitation are not the same thing, right?  The words are not interchangeable.  In fact, one necessarily precludes the other.

Gravity as a force does not exist.


Er... read #3.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2007, 07:28:23 PM »
Quote from: Jack. on October 19, 2007, 06:53:05 PM
Quote from: TheEngineer on October 19, 2007, 09:34:33 AM
You RE'ers do realize that gravity and gravitation are not the same thing, right?  The words are not interchangeable.  In fact, one necessarily precludes the other.

Gravity as a force does not exist.


Er... read #3.

Only to the layman.  People who know what they are talking about know otherwise.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2007, 07:49:57 PM »
Quote from: L0gic on October 19, 2007, 06:09:13 PM
Btw...
Quote from: divito the fascist
"Although these terms are interchangeable in everyday use"...

To normal people, yes. But without omitting the first part of what I pasted (that's very Jack of you), they are distinct in the world of science.
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2007, 12:07:10 AM »
Ok, since both RE and FE are non-inertial reference frames (constant acceleration, in the RE case powered by the gravity of the sun) but I like to think of gravity like this:

"Matter tells space(time) how to bend,
Space(time) tells matter(and energy) how to move."

(the brackets make it more accurate, but it's snappier without them)
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TheEngineer

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2007, 12:11:37 AM »
Quote from: Hturtfothgileht on October 20, 2007, 12:07:10 AM
constant acceleration, in the RE case powered by the gravity of the sun
Actually, it would be more correct to say the constant acceleration is due to the Earth, not the Sun.
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2007, 12:24:49 AM »
Well, if one or both were absent it would not happen. RE's acceleration is different to FE though, RE retains speed but constantly changes direction, FE retains direction but constantly changes speed.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2007, 12:43:21 AM »
Perhaps you misunderstood.  Our acceleration, and thus the non inertial FoR, on the RE, is due to the Earth and the Earth alone.  It has nothing to do with the Sun or the Earth's motion around it. 
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2007, 11:59:19 AM »
Please elaborate, since an inertial reference frame is one which moves with constant velocity, and a non-inertial reference frame is one which accelerates. Since, in RE's circular orbit, it constantly changes direction (velocity is speed in a given direction) then it's velocity changes, a change in velocity is known as acceleration, which is why it is a Non-inertial FoR.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2007, 12:39:32 PM »
Quote from: divito the fascist on October 19, 2007, 07:49:57 PM
Quote from: L0gic on October 19, 2007, 06:09:13 PM
Btw...
Quote from: divito the fascist
"Although these terms are interchangeable in everyday use"...

To normal people, yes. But without omitting the first part of what I pasted (that's very Jack of you), they are distinct in the world of science.

That was the beginning to the sentence and the end was a different focus. So if your source was normal and unscientific, why did you post it?
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Loard Z

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2007, 03:20:25 PM »
I agree with thelightoftruth - the earth is constantly accelerating, because it's always changing direction - that's what orbit is right?
And the sun is the reason it's changing direction, not the earth.
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2007, 07:01:25 AM »
I have been reborn as the brainchild of Tom Bishop.

First, there was Tom Bishop,

Then, there was the army of clones.

But then, he constructed

something powerful

something deadly

something inhuman

something terrifying

he built HYPNOBISHOP[/b]
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Quote from: Tomcooper84
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Username

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2007, 07:12:11 AM »
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 20, 2007, 11:59:19 AM
Please elaborate, since an inertial reference frame is one which moves with constant velocity, and a non-inertial reference frame is one which accelerates. Since, in RE's circular orbit, it constantly changes direction (velocity is speed in a given direction) then it's velocity changes, a change in velocity is known as acceleration, which is why it is a Non-inertial FoR.
If speed is zero, a change in direction does not change its velocity.
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2007, 07:32:35 AM »
If speed is zero, there is no diretion because it is not moving.
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Quote from: Tomcooper84
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Username

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2007, 09:43:45 AM »
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 21, 2007, 07:32:35 AM
If speed is zero, there is no diretion because it is not moving.
Direction is not dependant on it moving position
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 09:54:47 AM by Username »
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divito the truthist

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2007, 10:01:38 AM »
Quote from: L0gic on October 20, 2007, 12:39:32 PM
That was the beginning to the sentence and the end was a different focus. So if your source was normal and unscientific, why did you post it?

Er? We are having a scientific discussion. If you want to have an accurate and meaningful conversation, use the appropriate term.
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2007, 01:17:22 PM »
Quote from: Username on October 21, 2007, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 21, 2007, 07:32:35 AM
If speed is zero, there is no diretion because it is not moving.
Direction is not dependant on it moving position

Err, unless you use direction in the sense of "the direction it is pointing" instead of "the direction it is going" then yes. But, velocity is Speed In A Given direction, if it has no speed, it has no velocity, so a change in direction would not change velocity. However, in RE and FE theories, the Earth is moving, so your comment has no relevence.
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Quote from: Tomcooper84
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2007, 02:00:21 PM »
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 21, 2007, 01:17:22 PM
velocity is Speed In A Given direction, if it has no speed, it has no velocity
0 * <1,0,0>
Velocity is a vector.  You tell someone "speed in a given direction" when they haven't learned what a vector is yet.

The zero vector is a valid velocity.
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2007, 02:02:59 PM »
Yes, a velocity of 0 is still a velocity, but changing direction does not change the velocity. However, Earth (both the flat and round versions) do not have 0 velocity, so I do not see how your statement has relevence to the debate.
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Quote from: Tomcooper84
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2007, 04:28:22 PM »
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 21, 2007, 02:02:59 PM
Yes, a velocity of 0 is still a velocity, but changing direction does not change the velocity.
No a velocity of 0 is not still a velocity.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2007, 04:43:45 PM »
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 20, 2007, 11:59:19 AM
Since, in RE's circular orbit, it constantly changes direction (velocity is speed in a given direction) then it's velocity changes, a change in velocity is known as acceleration, which is why it is a Non-inertial FoR.
But I just said our non inertial frame has nothing to do with the Earth orbiting the Sun.  It is due entirely to the Earth's mechanical resistance and thus produces the constant acceleration.
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Jack

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2007, 12:05:54 AM »
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 21, 2007, 02:02:59 PM
but changing direction does not change the velocity.

I'm sorry but a change in direction does change the velocity. Velocity is a vector quantity: it has magnitude and direction. A change in one of the two produces a change in velocity. For example, a ball no longer roll at constant velocity if it changes its direction, say, from East to West. Change in velocity, as stated by definition, means acceleration.

"A ball on the end of a string being whirled overhead at a constant speed is an example of this type of acceleration. Since velocity is a vector quantity like acceleration, velocity has a speed component (magnitude) and a direction component. At every instant in its motion overhead, the ball’s velocity is changing because the velocity’s direction is different at every point on the circular path. Changing velocity is acceleration."

Source: here.
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2007, 12:57:54 AM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on October 21, 2007, 04:43:45 PM
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 20, 2007, 11:59:19 AM
Since, in RE's circular orbit, it constantly changes direction (velocity is speed in a given direction) then it's velocity changes, a change in velocity is known as acceleration, which is why it is a Non-inertial FoR.
But I just said our non inertial frame has nothing to do with the Earth orbiting the Sun.  It is due entirely to the Earth's mechanical resistance and thus produces the constant acceleration.

Explain this mechanical resistance, but the Earth still constantly accelerates around the sun due to it's elliptical orbit. Conastant acceleration generates a Non-inertial FoR.
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Quote from: Tomcooper84
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TheEngineer

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2007, 01:12:40 AM »
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 22, 2007, 12:57:54 AM
the Earth still constantly accelerates around the sun due to it's elliptical orbit.
Yes it does, but like I've said three times now, it is irrelevant.  The Earth revolving around the Sun, has no bearing on our non inertial FoR.  OUR NON INERTIAL FoR IS DUE TO THE EARTH ALONE.  THIS NIFoR IS DUE TO THE ACCELERATION CAUSED BY THE EARTH EVEN IF IT WERE TO BE AT REST IN SPACE. 
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2007, 01:14:03 AM »
In other words, gravity.
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Quote from: Tomcooper84
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TheEngineer

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2007, 01:15:38 AM »
No, the Earth.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2007, 03:35:31 AM »
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 22, 2007, 01:14:03 AM
In other words, gravity.

LOL, how did you get that out of what he said?
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2007, 03:47:27 AM »
The "acceleration caused by the earth if it were to be at rest in space"
A non-inertial FoR is one which is accelerating, an FoR that is based on a stationary Earth would be inertial.
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Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
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divito the truthist

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2007, 03:52:40 AM »
We are under constant acceleration. That's what gravitation is. The Earth, as TE pointed out, stops us from going anywhere.
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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2007, 03:58:00 AM »
Quote from: divito the fascist on October 22, 2007, 03:52:40 AM
We are under constant acceleration. That's what gravitation is. The Earth, as TE pointed out, stops us from going anywhere.

And the sun stops the Earth from going anywhere. (In RE)
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Quote from: Tomcooper84
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divito the truthist

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Re: Gravity: a repost
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2007, 04:02:24 AM »
Quote from: Hypnobishop on October 22, 2007, 03:58:00 AM
And the sun stops the Earth from going anywhere. (In RE)

What?

We are under constant acceleration, you know, the gravitation accelerating you into the floor? That makes our FoR non-inertial. As TE said, the Sun has nothing to do with our FoR.
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