how did this happen

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Raist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #120 on: September 21, 2007, 05:56:44 AM »
weather he is a hypocrite or not, meteors are not actual proof of how the earth was formed. most of the meteors that fall to earth are taken by nasa, which, although you have used data accumulated by nasa erlier, means we can not use meteors as evidence because one side of the argumend refuses to belive nasa.


oh, and i thought pictures weren't proof on this forum?

rofl weather

try whether. it's less rainy.

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #121 on: September 21, 2007, 08:34:28 AM »
weather he is a hypocrite or not, meteors are not actual proof of how the earth was formed. most of the meteors that fall to earth are taken by nasa, which, although you have used data accumulated by nasa erlier, means we can not use meteors as evidence because one side of the argumend refuses to belive nasa.


oh, and i thought pictures weren't proof on this forum?

Meteors are all we have to go on when it comes to the earlist life of our earth.

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Username

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #122 on: September 21, 2007, 11:49:57 AM »
means we can not use meteors as evidence because one side of the argumend refuses to belive nasa.


oh, and i thought pictures weren't proof on this forum?
You miss the point.

We can use data you hold as true against your argument.   Its your argument, and its data you hold as true.  It should be consistent.
If ydu can't arggue both sides, you understan.d neeither

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Gulliver

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #123 on: September 21, 2007, 12:00:04 PM »
means we can not use meteors as evidence because one side of the argumend refuses to belive nasa.


oh, and i thought pictures weren't proof on this forum?
You miss the point.

We can use data you hold as true against your argument.   Its your argument, and its data you hold as true.  It should be consistent.
Grammar please, Bushy.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #124 on: September 21, 2007, 02:58:55 PM »
*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwn*
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #125 on: September 21, 2007, 05:11:03 PM »
means we can not use meteors as evidence because one side of the argumend refuses to belive nasa.


oh, and i thought pictures weren't proof on this forum?
You miss the point.

We can use data you hold as true against your argument.   Its your argument, and its data you hold as true.  It should be consistent.
Grammar please, Bushy.

Stop being such a pedant. You make spelling/grammar mistakes all the time. If that's the most constructive/informative thing you have to say, don't say anything.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Gulliver

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #126 on: September 21, 2007, 05:22:01 PM »
means we can not use meteors as evidence because one side of the argumend refuses to belive nasa.


oh, and i thought pictures weren't proof on this forum?
You miss the point.

We can use data you hold as true against your argument.   Its your argument, and its data you hold as true.  It should be consistent.
Grammar please, Bushy.

Stop being such a pedant. You make spelling/grammar mistakes all the time. If that's the most constructive/informative thing you have to say, don't say anything.
Pot calls the kettle black.
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You just proved that no one would ever believe that the earth is flat. You said that no one would believe someone that said that they had found the edge of earth!! LOL. What a silly engineer. That means that you are calling yourself crazy. Also you never answered the camera part. We have cameras. Also we have satellites. It's called GPS and I have it in my $47,000 2005 3.2 liter v6 Audi A4 German driving machine and he has it in his BMW 745Li which you probably couldn't afford!! LOL. I have a wealthy father. So if my father didn't pay for GPS than what is that fancy equipment? Since you’re an engineer and a pilot, you explain how this equipment works without satellites ok. By the way, I am an 18 year old of Indian descent just for your information. I am assuming you are middle aged white guy since no one else but white people think that the earth is flat. Another thing, people are out there to discover the truth. So if there was an edge someone would have found it by now, think about it. Since you’re a pilot you've probably seen the edge in your fancy airplane that has equipment that keeps the plane away from the edge. That means that if airplanes are kept away from the edge during autopilot then you could fly toward the edge after shutting autopilot off. So until you fly to the edge, everything you say is a disgrace to the scientific community. LOL, a flat world. LOL you sound like some bible preacher. The Hindu scriptures that are way older than the bible (take a history course) say that the world is round. So this is really an argument of religion jackass.
Seriously, your post sucks. You need help with your english, because it's clear you can neither read nor write; the former being most apparant.

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #127 on: September 21, 2007, 08:18:42 PM »
NEEMAN.  Got.  Told.

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Username

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #128 on: September 22, 2007, 10:04:16 AM »
He's right though.
If ydu can't arggue both sides, you understan.d neeither

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ash bash

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #129 on: September 22, 2007, 12:09:19 PM »
 how did the meteorits form in the first place. we know that they are made from very dense rocks, so we can presume that our earth is made of the same stuff.

it is generally belived that the meteors are bits of rock from past planets. i dont know if the FE theory deals with other planets and how they are formed or destroyed. is this how the FE thinks they were formed?
i believe the world is an oblate spheroid. anything i say that contradicts this is purely for the sake of argument.

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Raist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #130 on: September 22, 2007, 01:33:21 PM »
how did the meteorits form in the first place. we know that they are made from very dense rocks, so we can presume that our earth is made of the same stuff.

it is generally belived that the meteors are bits of rock from past planets. i dont know if the FE theory deals with other planets and how they are formed or destroyed. is this how the FE thinks they were formed?

dum duh dum dum dum.

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ash bash

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #131 on: September 25, 2007, 06:17:32 AM »
this is probrably in other posts already, but what do FE's think about the shape of the other planets. if the other planets are sphereical, why is the earth different?
i believe the world is an oblate spheroid. anything i say that contradicts this is purely for the sake of argument.

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divito the truthist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #132 on: September 25, 2007, 06:34:19 AM »
this is probrably in other posts already, but what do FE's think about the shape of the other planets. if the other planets are sphereical, why is the earth different?

I'm not an FEer, but "Gravity is proportional to the ratio of energy per unit of mass and not proportional to mass alone." I simply believe that this "energy per unit of mass" and the mass itself (of the Earth), is significantly less than the planets, which allow it to maintain its flatness.
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ash bash

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #133 on: September 26, 2007, 07:41:53 AM »
surely then, there must be other flat planets in the universe?
i believe the world is an oblate spheroid. anything i say that contradicts this is purely for the sake of argument.

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #134 on: September 26, 2007, 08:36:15 AM »
surely then, there must be other flat planets in the universe?

I think Dogplatter believes all the planets are flat.

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narcberry

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #135 on: September 26, 2007, 08:37:42 AM »
There are probably other flat planets in parallel acceleration with us within the UA. Unless Tom is right and earth is an infinite plane.

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #136 on: September 26, 2007, 08:45:31 AM »
There are probably other flat planets in parallel acceleration with us within the UA. Unless Tom is right and earth is an infinite plane.

Impossible.

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ash bash

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #137 on: September 27, 2007, 05:48:54 AM »
the earth cannot be an infinite plane. if you believe that energy cannot be created or destroyed then an infinite amount of energy would be required to move the earth as it has infinite mass.
i believe the world is an oblate spheroid. anything i say that contradicts this is purely for the sake of argument.

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Raist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #138 on: September 27, 2007, 05:51:56 AM »
the earth cannot be an infinite plane. if you believe that energy cannot be created or destroyed then an infinite amount of energy would be required to move the earth as it has infinite mass.

Well then there is an infinite ammount of energy that is neither being created or destroyed ;)

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ash bash

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #139 on: September 27, 2007, 05:56:25 AM »
then we get to the unstoppable force and the immovable object thing.b the earth would way an infinite amount, so an infinite amound of energy would be required, and bacuse there is an infinite plane, air resistance would be infinite. essentially, the whole idea is flawed.
i believe the world is an oblate spheroid. anything i say that contradicts this is purely for the sake of argument.

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Raist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #140 on: September 27, 2007, 05:57:30 AM »
then we get to the unstoppable force and the immovable object thing.b the earth would way an infinite amount, so an infinite amound of energy would be required, and bacuse there is an infinite plane, air resistance would be infinite. essentially, the whole idea is flawed.

If the atmosphere doesn't go up forever there would be no air resistance.

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ash bash

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #141 on: October 01, 2007, 04:04:13 AM »
why not, there is still air to resist the push of earth
i believe the world is an oblate spheroid. anything i say that contradicts this is purely for the sake of argument.

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divito the truthist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #142 on: October 01, 2007, 04:09:16 AM »
why not, there is still air to resist the push of earth

Ash, you're not from North America are you?
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ash bash

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #143 on: October 04, 2007, 12:36:03 AM »
no, i am european.
i believe the world is an oblate spheroid. anything i say that contradicts this is purely for the sake of argument.

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divito the truthist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #144 on: October 04, 2007, 12:48:22 AM »
Potentiall, I'm curious why you use a generated mosaic as your signature.
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Jack

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #145 on: October 04, 2007, 01:15:36 AM »
Potentiall, I'm curious why you use a generated mosaic as your signature.

Because I just drew that?

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divito the truthist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #146 on: October 04, 2007, 01:40:30 AM »
No, I just found it funny that you'd have this "why deny the truth when it is right in front of you?" followed by pictures of fabricated images.
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bubbles

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #147 on: October 04, 2007, 03:21:10 AM »
In the mid 1800's Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham looked out at the icy tundra from the edge of Antarctica and concluded that he didn't know how far the earth extended, but that from his perspective the tundra seemed perpetual. Hence came the idea of a perpetual earth where the edge of the earth meant the edge of the universe, the edge of space and time itself.

In my short time visiting this forum thus far (like watching a train wreck), I'm getting the idea that you are pretty dogmatic, prone to logical fallacy and many short bursts of faulty reasoning strung together to form (or demonstrate) faulty ad-hoc assertion-based conclusions, and just plain married to your ideas.  But you like to sound intelligent.  (Which is odd, because it's hard to sound genuinely intelligent without actually being so--yet much of your reasoning, regardless of the worth of the ideas they are supporting, is just plain moronic.  What gives?)  At any rate that's all OK: at least you do not come off as a jerk or a hax0r (if that's the right slang).  People are entitled to cling to moronic beliefs, as long as it is not directly hurting anyone.  It just may be hurting our long-term survival prospects as a species.  (The movie "Idiocracy" comes to mind...)

So against my better judgment I'm going to bite.

First, your theory of a perpetual earth (apparently formed by someone else's starting revelation that the "tundra seemed perpetual" [even though you can only see 35 miles or so according to you]) is not congruous with what appears to be FE canon (as near as I can tell).  So if you are going to cling to foolish irrational dogma, at least cling to the official foolish irrational dogma, right?  The earth is a finite disc surrounded by a great ice wall, and whether it has mass or not is irrelevant since our perception of gravity is accomplished by a UA accelerating us ever faster upward.

And about the whole raindrop business.  You seem to be implying that a sphere is not "preferred" (to anthropomorphize) by nature, and point to a raindrop falling through the air as "proof".  Proof of what?  A raindrop has something acting on it, actively expending energy to deform it--such as, oh I don't know, how about air molecules bombarding it at high speed from one primary direction.  (Regardless of whether we're talking about resulting from gravity from a spherical earth, or constant acceleration from a FE UA.)  An equally valid argument would be for me to say that a snowflake is the natural state of all solid.  Or a mickey mouse-shaped ice cube.  Or that a lizard that I accidentally stepped on is the correct shape for lizards.  All are pointless, meaningless arguments that have no place in rational debate.  All you have demonstrated is that raindrops falling through the air are not spherical--with no effect on the notion that planet-sized bodies (in the SE model) tend to form spheres under self-gravitation.  (Which I think was the gist of the original debate.)

The fact is, a sphere optimally minimizes surface area relative to internal volume.  Many natural forces purposely or randomly "strive" to that goal.  Which is why many living things naturally "try" to optimize their shape (via natural selection) to wind up with roughly spherical or at least cylindrical body plans and/or parts.  Water, when undisturbed by gravity or wind, forms a sphere--not by self gravity as massive bodies in space do, but by surface tension.  (But then you believe those videos from the space shuttle are hoaxed, right?  How could mankind ever achieve perpetual free-fall especially on an infinite flat earth that is forever accelerating upwards towards them?  Well I suppose you probably believe the Vomit Comet is at least plausible even in an infinite FE scenario, right?)  Soap bubbles--relatively undisturbed by gravity relative to their size and mass and interaction with the dense gas of our air--form a sphere (surface tension again).  Tiny raindrops and tiny water bubbles--where surface tension reigns over exterior fluid dynamics--are spherical.  Rapidly spinning planets are less spherical.  For anything over small moon size, a sphere is the natural shape it's own self-gravity brings it into--assuming no external forces acting on it like rotation (e.g. slightly flattened Jupiter, galaxies, etc.).

BTW, I have to ask: what is the basic physics or mechanics behind the luminance of a tiny spherical (much less flat) sun 35 miles from the surface?  A fourth-grader is capable of getting the basic concept of solar-scaled fusion.  I am curious as to how the FE sun works.

One more question: If the earth is an infinite plane, and below it is a ubiquitous pushing/accelerating force, then how is it that we see 360 degrees of sky?  Even in one 24-hour period, we see well over 180 degrees worth of stars.  Where do the 180 degrees worth stars that we don't see in the 180 degrees above us go?  (Yes I have read the FAQ and scoured countless posts.)

Also, the sunrise/sunset business is just sheer nonsense.  Come on, Tom Bishop, admit that even you have a problem with the official FE explanation.  It's "an optical illusion"!?  (According to the FAQ.)  That's it, just like that, it is explained?  I am dumbfounded.  I am going to use that in my next meeting.  "Why are we 1.2 million over budget?"  "Well actually, it's just an optical illusion.  As we get farther in time from the start of the project, the remaining balance appears--through an optical illusion--to get smaller and smaller, until it apparently disappears...and then turns negative."  The optical illusion idiocy leaves out many things, such as how the sun marches across the sky and drops below the horizon at an even rate every degree across the sky--easily verifiable with your hands, which you would know well if you've spent much serious time outdoors and used the sun for navigation.  How this could happen if the sun just fades away by sliding into the distance is, uh, well lets just be nice and call it a "mystery".

And about this boat/horizon nonsense.  You may be shocked and horrified to learn that A) I live less than ten miles from the pacific ocean, B) I'm an avid sailor, C) I'm on or high above and looking at the ocean very often, D) I own a pair of very expensive and very powerful binoculars that I have out often.  [Not to mention an 800mm camera lens that I use often on cliffs above.]  And E) It is usually exceedingly clear here.  I don't think these idiotic FE theories were meant to stand up to practical experience like this--because they don't.  My direct observations clearly, directly, and regularly contradict the moronic claims of FE'ers on what a boat "should" look like as it "appears to" sink below the horizon.  I'll tell you what it actually does look like: it sinks below the horizon.  You can trust me that, when a giant cargo ship the size of a couple of football fields steams out to sea, as viewed from atop an 800 ft. cliff, and I'm looking at it through massive Nikon glass, I am not mistaking the hull for the ocean or some other pandering "optical illusion".  When I see the rare 150 ft yacht sail out that far, I am not seeing it sink into the ocean (hopefully), or the ever-increasing additional waves between me and it "appear" to swallow its masts...unless those are averaging 50 ft waves (in which case it would be really sinking).

But hey, you can always just assert that I'm part of the conspiracy, and be neatly done with these uncomfortable questions, like so many others here do when backed into a logical corner.

And last but not least, Tom Bishop, I am dying to know: what do you do for a living?  Be honest.  I will not mock your answer, nor do I anticipate it is mockable.  I'm assuming you aren't retired or independently wealthy and thus rely on a regular job for survival.  I suppose it's only fair I should volunteer what I do: functionally speaking so as not to give the impression of "job title comparison", program manager in the software industry.  What we do is not who we are, nevertheless it offers a glimpse, and I am curious.  That's all.  I'm dying to know the typical FE demographic (or if not typical as I suspect doesn't exist, then average).

Oh, one more question: are you one who believes that Science is just another belief system, like a religion?

Sorry to single you out for a few of these questions that are more generic to FE: but you seem like a good, intelligent, responsive representative of it.  I can't escape the feeling that most of the FE proponents are just flat talking out of their a**ses, without ever bothering to leave the house, get their hands dirty, get some sun on their necks, and/or watch "Astronomy for Idiots" on the Discovery Channel.  (Much less be bothered to ever buy a telescope or plot the apparent motion of a planet sometime in their life.)  While their paranoid skepticism may be admirable, it could be put to better, more socially useful purposes (like demanding the impeachment of a certain president or helping to educate poor people).  I'm looking for evidence that this is not typical of the average FE'er.  I want to believe people are really not this dumb.  Because let me tell you, the movie "Idiocracy" scared the hell out of me.

Finally I must ask: could somebody--you perhaps--please predict the date and time of the next solar or lunar eclipse, using only predictions arrived at from FE principles.  Don't just look up the predictions of SE and call it your own--I'm going to want to see the math, assumptions, and constants.  If you want to see the predictions and sources from the SE camp for comparison, just google "lunar solar eclipse predictions".
Look you ugly son of a bitch, making up observations and unfounded suppositions is exactly what the Flat Earth Society is about.

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divito the truthist

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #148 on: October 04, 2007, 03:28:47 AM »
I could break apart quite a few of your arguments, but you wrote a lot so I'm not really interested.

And you really won't get any predictions, because there are no means by which to get them. There is too much unaccounted for with the FE to start developing predictions for phenomena.
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Username

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Re: how did this happen
« Reply #149 on: October 04, 2007, 06:02:05 AM »
tldr
If ydu can't arggue both sides, you understan.d neeither