God is Imaginary

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Masterchef

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2007, 07:42:10 AM »
One statement was "If God has a plan, why pray, as praying won't change anything."

What if it is God's plan for you to pray.  You can't disprove God because the assumption you must make is that God is omnipotent and therefore you can't disprove it because it will just be part of "God's plan".
The bible says that if you pray, it will make a difference. They are not making any assumptions, they are proving that the God depicted in the bible does not exist.

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I definitely agree that it's impossible to actually disprove the existence of God (as in, the idea of some kind of intelligent creator of the universe).  Even arguing that it's just very very unlikely, as some atheists do, seems pointless, because we're talking about something that is by its very nature unknowable.  At the same time that there's no real reason to believe in God, there is equally no real reason to entirely rule out the possibility.  It's my feelings in those regards that make me consider myself more of an agnostic than an actual atheist.
I agree, you can not know for sure that there is no creator, but you can prove that the gods depicted in specific religions do not exist. This site was mostly arguing against the Christian god, who can be disproven relatively easily.

Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2007, 07:50:23 AM »
Awesome website.  Behold the truth:

http://www.godisimaginary.com/

Everyone ignore this demon. He knows God is real but Satan is tricking him into turning us away from God!

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Midnight

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2007, 08:03:18 AM »
Trekky nailed it for me.

If God is omnipotent, then God KNEW Adam & Evil would fuck it up for the rest of us, and allowed that...why? God is a sadist.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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cmdshft

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2007, 08:43:40 AM »
The proverbial "Kid on an ant hill witha magnifying glass". He/She picks whatever he wants to do with us.

If he/she exists, which I do not believe he/she does.

Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2007, 08:58:12 AM »
Where does it say God knows what's going to happen? You just assume because s/he knows everything?

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Trekky0623

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2007, 09:52:21 AM »
Quote from: Bible (Jeremiah 1:5)
5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 09:53:52 AM by Trekky0623 »

Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2007, 09:57:17 AM »
Quote from: Bible (Jeremiah 1:5)
5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Silly piece of fiction!

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Midnight

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2007, 01:14:53 PM »
Where does it say God knows what's going to happen? You just assume because s/he knows everything?

Omnipotent means all knowing. This means you know EVERYTHING. What has happened, what will happen.

/thread
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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The Communist

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2007, 11:15:35 AM »
Where does it say God knows what's going to happen? You just assume because s/he knows everything?

Omnipotent means all knowing. This means you know EVERYTHING. What has happened, what will happen.

/thread

Omnipotent means basically all-powerful.  Omniscient means all-knowing.
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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2007, 11:24:37 AM »
FOR HARDCORE CHRISTIANS:
If God knew you before you were born, why does he plan certain people to go to Hell? :o

Before and plan are words that have no relative meaning when discussing the predestination regarding God.

Every event has already happened, is happening, and will happen.  Petey is going to hell because he made the choices to do so.  He has committed the sins or crimes necessary to damn himself to hell under his own free will.  He's doing it, he has already done it, and he will do it.

Likewise, God/Jesus, whatever is commonly believed, will try to save him, is trying to save him, and has tried to save him.  In every event, it never works.  Therefore, Petey will go to hell, is in hell, and has been in hell at every single point in his life under his own free will.
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"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Trekky0623

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2007, 12:29:01 PM »
But when someone dies, the common response is that it was part of God's plan.  This makes it seem as though God caused things to happen or has planned for something to happen such as you sinning.

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Masterchef

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2007, 12:30:00 PM »
That is the common response because the average theist knows almost nothing about their own religion.

Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2007, 12:49:25 PM »
But when someone dies, the common response is that it was part of God's plan.  This makes it seem as though God caused things to happen or has planned for something to happen such as you sinning.

Don't try to order God around, he can kill whoever he wants! God knows all. He knows how we are all going to die since he is the one who will kill us. Praise the Lord!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2007, 12:49:32 PM »
Where does it say God knows what's going to happen? You just assume because s/he knows everything?

Omnipotent means all knowing. This means you know EVERYTHING. What has happened, what will happen.

/thread

Omnipotent means basically all-powerful.  Omniscient means all-knowing.

This is true.  Of course, God's supposed to be both.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2007, 02:42:57 PM »
But when someone dies, the common response is that it was part of God's plan.  This makes it seem as though God caused things to happen or has planned for something to happen such as you sinning.

First of all, I don't and will never believe that the common man's word has any bearing on what religion is saying or trying to convey, nor do I believe that the common man knows what the fuck he's talking about, because often he doesn't.  This is an unfortunate side-effect of something being all-inclusive:  explanations have to be dumbed down, philosophical concepts in parables removed, etc.  So I would appreciate we keep the "common response" out because I'm pretty sure the consensus on this forum is that the common religious response is completely stupid.

That said, God's plan is usually referred to by religious people as a sort of fate.  By this, we can assume it means existance, everything that "happens".

If you mean by a conscious plan of a deity for existance, I believe that that would be counter-intuitive.  A god would have no need of a plan; everything exists because of it, there's no need to plan it out.  It's already happened.
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"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2007, 11:27:17 PM »
The way I've always thought about it is that there is no predestination, because God is supposed to have given us free will but also he's supposed to know everything and I thought that God gives us free will to choose what we want but he knows what we will choose anyway, not because he plans it but because he exists outside of our human time frame. As it says in the bible "before Abramham was, I AM" which isn't a grammatical error, it's just to show that God is in all times and once, past present and future.



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Midnight

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2007, 11:28:33 PM »
Imaginary is God, if you work at Disney, like B.O.G.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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cmdshft

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2007, 07:48:23 AM »
IMAGINATION!

Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2007, 04:33:44 AM »
The way I've always thought about it is that there is no predestination, because God is supposed to have given us free will but also he's supposed to know everything and I thought that God gives us free will to choose what we want but he knows what we will choose anyway, not because he plans it but because he exists outside of our human time frame. As it says in the bible "before Abramham was, I AM" which isn't a grammatical error, it's just to show that God is in all times and once, past present and future.



(Disclaimer: If he even exists in the first place that is)

People look at time as in one line, but I reckon it's more like one big oggly-woggly timey-wimey..... blob. God created this blob when he created time, and Jesus's death, gave God entry to the blob, giving humans the direct pathway to him. At least, this is how I see it. Sure, people make different desicions; and there are choices we all get; but one thing can impact another, and like in a blob, if a bit in the middle moves, all around it shakes; demonstrating the influence that the decision making element of choice we have been given, has.

Does God exist. Of course, I see no question in that. As soon as someone can provide me with evidence as to him not being there, I will believe it. Might I point out, even in the modern day world; it is impossible for the wisest to prove something does not exist. It will never be possible to prove something is not there; yet quite simple to prove something or someone is. The bible was not from nowhere. No more were the miricles that have happened and happen today. God is real, and to see him, we need simply open our eyes.

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Masterchef

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2007, 07:19:19 AM »
Does God exist. Of course, I see no question in that.
Because you are blind.

Quote
As soon as someone can provide me with evidence as to him not being there, I will believe it. Might I point out, even in the modern day world; it is impossible for the wisest to prove something does not exist. It will never be possible to prove something is not there; yet quite simple to prove something or someone is. The bible was not from nowhere. No more were the miricles that have happened and happen today. God is real, and to see him, we need simply open our eyes.
Lets see, unattainable requirements for the opposite view, and the use of circular reasoning to support their own point of view. Why are all theists exactly the same? Do they come off an assembly line or something?

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The bible was not from nowhere.
Just because it claims to have been written by god doesn't mean it actually was.

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No more were the miricles that have happened and happen today.
Please, if you can give me one example of an actual miracle, I will convert right now.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2007, 07:41:40 AM by Masterchief2219 »

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cmdshft

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2007, 08:22:37 AM »

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narcberry

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2007, 08:52:06 AM »
Does God exist. Of course, I see no question in that.
Because you are blind.

I love athiests. Their argument:
"You have 0 evidence and argue something that cannot be proved one way or the other, so therefore it is false."

Let me simplify it:
"You have 0 evidence, I have 0 evidence, we have no ground to argue on, so I win."

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Pope Zera

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2007, 09:48:14 AM »
I love athiests. Their argument:
"You have 0 evidence and argue something that cannot be proved one way or the other, so therefore it is false."

Let me simplify it:
"You have 0 evidence, I have 0 evidence, we have no ground to argue on, so I win."

You have to love it.  Noone has any proof, therefore the cynic wins.

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Masterchef

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2007, 10:31:39 AM »
I love athiests. Their argument:
"You have 0 evidence and argue something that cannot be proved one way or the other, so therefore it is false."

Let me simplify it:
"You have 0 evidence, I have 0 evidence, we have no ground to argue on, so I win."
Your god is as valid as Dragons, Unicorns, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. So no, you lose. ::)

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Pope Zera

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2007, 10:34:06 AM »
In other words:  "No, 'cuz your god is dumb, so I win."

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narcberry

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2007, 10:38:11 AM »
I love athiests. Their argument:
"You have 0 evidence and argue something that cannot be proved one way or the other, so therefore it is false."

Let me simplify it:
"You have 0 evidence, I have 0 evidence, we have no ground to argue on, so I win."
Your god is as valid as Dragons, Unicorns, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. So no, you lose. ::)

If we followed through with your argument than it is valid to claim that China did not exist until I had valid evidence of its existance. It's a good thing I found out China really existed. Phew, crisis avoided.

Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2007, 11:11:46 AM »
Until you can tell me that if I drop a ball it will fall back to the ground with absolute certainty, I can validly believe in whatever God I so damn well choose.
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"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Masterchef

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2007, 11:13:08 AM »
If we followed through with your argument than it is valid to claim that China did not exist until I had valid evidence of its existance. It's a good thing I found out China really existed. Phew, crisis avoided.
Pfft, next you'll try to claim that Australia really exists. ::)

But naturally, if there was no tangible evidence of Chinas existence, it would be irrational to believe in it. I am not saying one would not have the right to believe in China, I am just saying it would be irrational. And either way, the belief or disbelief in China would not have a huge effect on your life. However, if you chose to worship China, and live your life by what you perceive to be Chinas will, that would be even more irrational, and it would have a big effect on your life. Still, you have the right to do what you want to do. And I would have no problem with that, so long as those who believe in China keep their beliefs to themselves. But eventually the followers of China get self-righteous, and try to force other people to believe in China, try to change laws to promote the belief in China, and even try to get the existence of China taught in schools, even though there is no proof for it. Eventually the believers in China take control of the entire country, and start wars with other countries just because they don't believe in China. And all of this is justified by the sole fact that nobody can prove China wrong.

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Pope Zera

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2007, 11:20:44 AM »
Well, then I suppose that the problem is not in China itself, but those who follow China.  As such, perhaps it is the overzealous China worshippers that you should be poking fun at, and not China itself?

This is starting to sound racist.

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Emporer DAT

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Re: God is Imaginary
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2007, 11:36:34 AM »
Hmm... God? No god exists, how do I --KNOW--? Allow me for explainses.

         If a god existed then that would automatically prove that a universe of some sort existed, because you obviously need a 'god' to turn nothing into a universe. You say that said god does not exists which in turn would automatically mean that a universe would not exist therefore the final conclusion of claiming "there is no god" can only be one thing; the universe does not exist.

You see? what have I been trying to say; nothing but nothing exists and you guys just proved me right.