ice vs water

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TheEngineer

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2007, 09:23:45 AM »
Mass does not change just by heating it. Ikg of Ice will melt to 1Kg of water, the mass is the same. e=mc^2 does not come into this. that is the conversion of mass to energy and is only achievable at present through nuclear fusion or fission. Ice melts when it absorbs heat from an external source (the atmosphere is the source if left to sit on the kitchen bench).
What do you think happens when you heat something?  You are adding energy to it.  E=mc^2 applies at all times.  Take the amount of energy added, pop it into the equation, and get out the change in mass.


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afiq980

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2007, 12:50:55 AM »
Mass does not change just by heating it. Ikg of Ice will melt to 1Kg of water, the mass is the same. e=mc^2 does not come into this. that is the conversion of mass to energy and is only achievable at present through nuclear fusion or fission. Ice melts when it absorbs heat from an external source (the atmosphere is the source if left to sit on the kitchen bench).
What do you think happens when you heat something?  You are adding energy to it.  E=mc^2 applies at all times.  Take the amount of energy added, pop it into the equation, and get out the change in mass.

Alright, I assume that you are not paying attention to your physics classes, or that you dont go to physics lessons. No offence, just an explanation.

E=mc^2 exists because energy is able to change into matter(which has mass). The equation is showing the relationship between the mass of an object and how much energy it will CONVERT to.

This equation is not used at all when we are talking about melting/freezing H2O. When we are talking about melting/freezing H2O, the equation is actually:-

When H2O or any other substances is changing state,

Energy (J) = [ Mass of substance (Kg) ] X [ Specific Latent Heat of Fusion/vaporisation of substance ]

When H2O or any other substance is not changing state,

Energy (J) = [ Mass of substance (Kg) ] X [ specific heat capacity of substance ] X [change of temperature (Kelvin, K) of substance ]

Take note: the "Energy (J)" in the equation is showing energy SUPPLIED to the substance or energy LOST by the substance, not how much energy it can CONVERT into.
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So, please please please do not ever mention the equation: E=mc^2.

Use the other two equations mentioned. That is all I have to say.

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TheEngineer

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2007, 01:44:29 PM »
Now take that energy, and put it into E=mc^2 to see the amount of mass gained.


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narcberry

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2007, 02:02:38 PM »
Sokarul + physics is always funny.

But seriously:

So E/c2=m.  So increase the value of E and what happens?

c increases. duh.

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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2007, 02:43:28 PM »
Sokarul + physics is always funny.

But seriously:

So E/c2=m.  So increase the value of E and what happens?

c increases. duh.

Really, your dumbest post yet.

The energy you put into melting ice is used to break the hydrogen bonds, it doesn't become matter. When you heat water, the energy makes the water molecules move faster, increasing volume and eventually overcoming the permanent-dipole attraction and evaporating. If you let water cool and refreeze, the energy is released again as the hydrogen bonds reform.
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Loard Z

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2007, 02:31:23 AM »
Sokarul + physics is always funny.

But seriously:

So E/c2=m.  So increase the value of E and what happens?

c increases. duh.

LOL ROFL LMAO hilarity.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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afiq980

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2007, 02:19:05 AM »
Now take that energy, and put it into E=mc^2 to see the amount of mass gained.

FORGET ABOUT E=MC^2!!

It is not used when you are talking about ice and water when they are melting or freezing!!!

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TheEngineer

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2007, 11:06:16 AM »
Why not?  When does E=mc^2 apply?


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Masterchef

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2007, 11:36:01 AM »
Why not?  When does E=mc^2 apply?
When it doesn't prove that he has no idea what he is talking about, which is to say, never.

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Conspiracy Mastermind

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2007, 02:55:48 PM »
Why not?  When does E=mc^2 apply?

When matter and energy are being converted, e.g. in nuclear reactions and when matter approaches c.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
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TheEngineer

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2007, 12:11:26 AM »
When matter and energy are being converted
What do you think is happening during combustion?


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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2007, 02:23:27 AM »
When matter and energy are being converted
What do you think is happening during combustion?
God you are slow. In combustion, fuel is reacting with oxygen, the energy given out is due to covalent/ionic bonds forming. The mass does not change one iota.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
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afiq980

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2007, 03:35:54 AM »
Why not?  When does E=mc^2 apply?

When matter and energy are being converted, e.g. in nuclear reactions and when matter approaches c.

Yeah, as matter can be converted to energy and vice versa. This does not happen in everyday life, if it does happen, there will be huge explosions everywhere on Earth.

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divito the truthist

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2007, 03:46:48 AM »
"This formula also gives the amount of mass lost from a body when energy is removed. In a chemical or nuclear reaction, when heat and light are removed, the mass is decreased."

"E = mc˛ where m stands for rest mass (invariant mass), applies most simply to single particles with no net momentum. But it also applies to ordinary objects composed of many particles so long as the particles are moving in different directions so the total momentum is zero. The mass of the object includes contributions from heat and sound, chemical binding energies and trapped radiation. Familiar examples are a tank of gas, or a hot bowl of soup. The kinetic energy of their particles, the heat motion and radiation, contribute to their weight on a scale according to E = mc˛."
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 07:43:52 AM by divito the fascist »
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EvilToothpaste

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2007, 07:21:22 AM »
Why not?  When does E=mc^2 apply?

When matter and energy are being converted, e.g. in nuclear reactions and when matter approaches c.

I thought E=mc2 was the rest energy? 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 07:26:52 AM by EvilToothpaste »

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Loard Z

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Re: ice vs water
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2007, 08:40:03 AM »
yeah, it's kind of like the potential energy of matter.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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