THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

  • 29 Replies
  • 6662 Views
THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« on: April 17, 2006, 11:22:22 PM »
To see an actual photograph of President bush meeting his 'gurus,' go to this informative link and scroll down to the U.S.A. politics section under Jewish Power (about a third of the way down the page past the photos of american abuses in Iraq):

 http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english/

- Dionysios

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2006, 01:28:48 AM »
Incredible!  What daring, truth-loving journalist managed to sneak that incredibly damning photo of a person standing in a room with a bunch of other people??  He's my hero.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2006, 06:41:41 AM »
Your sarcasm is understood, but also understand that while I think the photo is impressive, my intention is to introduce others to the rich selection of links and articles which accompany the photo and throughout that extensive website which contain considerably more knowledge than the picture alone.

- Dionysios

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2006, 01:56:52 PM »
People point at Bush so much that I'm starting to think that that's the desired effect.  He's becoming more and more a puppet or a mascot if anything.  His image is simply too "good" to be true.

I don't like his cabinet.
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2006, 02:37:10 PM »
One thing I always wondered about anti-Zionism.  Anti-Zionists consider the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine to have been illegal, correct?  What about the establishment of the Transjordan, later to become the Kingdom of Jordan?  Was this also a crime commited by the United Kingdom?

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2006, 05:49:27 PM »
To tell you the truth, I am not fond of the modern forms of government that have been increasingly present throughout the world, and they have tended to originate from or follow the form of governments prevalent in the modern west.  In the case of the Trans-jordan and the state of israel, the british had a great deal to do with the formation of both of them, and I think that made the Jordanian government a much worse thing than it could have been.  As a matter of fact, I am glad you chose that as an example as it was probably the worst arab government of the early and mid-twentieth century if not today as well.  Until 1956, their state was independent only in name as its military the arab legion was under a british commander (even if he was to a degree an anti-zionist) who was fired by the king when Nasser's successes in Egypt gave the British political setbacks in other countries as well.  
  I agree with the politics generally of anti-imperialists from Martin Luther King to Gamal Abdel Nasser in that we have the same enemies.  I do think it regrettable when those who form new governments happen to be those natives of whatever country in question who have been educated in american and western european universities.  In this way, the conquest continues even after the empire receeds (which is a welcome change, no doubt).  I have more respect for those traditionalist elements in every country than the westernized elements who continue the work of westernization which the colonialists began.

  I am particularly impressed with Iran whose government is a shining example that religion can still be the motivating factor in a successful revolution and change of government.  

- Dionysios

?

Tanktunker

Re: THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2006, 02:06:54 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
To see an actual photograph of President bush meeting his 'gurus,' go to this informative link and scroll down to the U.S.A. politics section under Jewish Power (about a third of the way down the page past the photos of american abuses in Iraq):

 http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english/

- Dionysios

Edited by EnragedPenguin. Debating=good. Flaming=bad

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2006, 12:01:16 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
I am particularly impressed with Iran whose government is a shining example that religion can still be the motivating factor in a successful revolution and change of government.


Needless to say I am in disagreement with the majority of your post, not least with this part in particular.

My support of the democratic system is based on my belief in the rights of the individual and the importance of a system which permits personal advancement and achievement.  The British Empire certainly led the way of democracy over the past millenium, and I think that their former colonies are for the most part better off for it.  Certainly those former colonies are now some of the most prosperous, powerful, and free countries outside Europe -- and certainly, that is something that is good for a country to be, at least from that country's perspective.

Iran on the other hand is a prime example of a dangerous theocracy -- and that, of a religion that permits no self-criticism or self-evaluation, whose mainstream is antilibertarian, and which proposes to set civil rights back hundreds of years.  I greatly admire the "modern ijtihad" movement of Irshad Manji -- a Muslim Journalist raised in Canada -- which seeks to promote critical thinking in the Islamic world.  Needless to say, her life has been threatened many times by radical Islamists, and she has been the victim of bigotry even from other Muslims.

I see no reason to believe that any of the Judeo-Christian gods, if they exist at all, have my best interests at heart, with the possible exception of Jesus himself, who advocated a lifestyle I consider virtuous.  In any case, given the option, I would certainly choose democracy over theocracy -- I do not wish my liberties to be decided by the whim of an autocrat who may or may not speak for the God that I have been terrorized and brainwashed into worshipping.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2006, 04:03:47 PM »
Dionysios, I'm sure it would be better for you if Israel did not exist because then all of us Jews would be living in your country and intermarrying with your kids.  I'm sure you would love that :P
Science and religion do NOT contradict one another, but are two truths." (from askmoses.com)

"Religion without science is blind, but science without religion is lame." - Albert Einstein

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2006, 01:56:12 PM »
NOES! Bush caught in a picture with Jewish leaders! WHY WOULD ONE LEADER MEET WITH ANOTHER UNLESS THEY ARE ALL IN ON EVERYTHING TOGETHER!

It is a known fact that if leaders meet together, they agree on everything and both conspire for the other guy's best interest, against your own.

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2006, 07:14:42 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"

I see no reason to believe that any of the Judeo-Christian gods, if they exist at all, have my best interests at heart, with the possible exception of Jesus himself, who advocated a lifestyle I consider virtuous.  In any case, given the option, I would certainly choose democracy over theocracy -- I do not wish my liberties to be decided by the whim of an autocrat who may or may not speak for the God that I have been terrorized and brainwashed into worshipping.

-Erasmus


Quoted for truth. You may want to read up on AIPAC if you havn't done so already. That damn lobby scares the hell outta me. From what I've read, it appears that they are pretty damn influential regarding our policies towards the middle east, and their pockets are deep. The christian zionist crowd is all to eager to bend to AIPAC's will. It worries me because those guys want to see Isreal become a middle-eastern superpower, and the US has already stirred up one hell of an antbed over there with our over-the-top pro-Isreal policy.

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2006, 09:02:17 PM »
Photo looks shopped. I can tell by the pixels and having seen quite a few shops in my time. :D

You wanna play 'Doctor Photo', I don't see why we can't either.

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2006, 02:48:03 AM »
Itsround hit the nail on the head with AIPAC.  The reason the major media does not report on AIPAC is because those who control AIPAC control the major media.  

  Erasmus,  I do not believe in judeo-christian philosophy either.  I believe in the God of the Christians.  The god of the judeo-christians is the Devil.

  The British empire was the lair of the Devil.  I have just been to Australia, and I have never seen so many cameras invading every aspect of life in my life.  The only thing that came close is the United States, but I here Britain is worse than the US in this respect.  With all respect I think you are naive reguarding the British empire.  It would be good if more people were familiar with the horrors of this empire which an earlier generation knew first hand (Such as the brutalities it inflicted on Kenyans in the 1950's, India in the 1940's and before, for example.)  The Aborigines in Australia were enslaved and massacred and resettled and not free during the entire presence of the British there.  How are they better off?  The Greek family I visited in Australia has two grown daughters who both work like slaves at multiple jobs.

  So much your ideal of freedom, Erasmus.  I do not doubt your good intentions, but it does not change the fact that you are masking coloialism, slavery, capitalism, debauchery and the economic and political wealth of the few at the expense of the very many.  In Cuba and China, (although westerniized and to a lamentable extent estranged from their pasts) the society is not captalist and their is less of a gap between the rich and poor as there is in america.  

  Thank God for people like johnsmith and Itsround.

- Dionysios

?

joffenz

  • The Elder Ones
  • 1272
THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2006, 08:22:56 AM »
It's true that the British Empire did commit terrible atrocities but they were not a direct result of democracy.

For once I agree with you Dionysios, capitalism is a system based completely on inequality and injustice. However I believe in communism with democracy (socialism) as it is the only true route to equality - how can everyone be equal if only a small elite decide how to run the country?

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2006, 08:35:12 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
The British empire was the lair of the Devil.  I have just been to Australia, and I have never seen so many cameras invading every aspect of life in my life.  The only thing that came close is the United States, but I here Britain is worse than the US in this respect.

I don't see your point, the number of cameras in public spaces is not indicative of an invasive or oppressive culture/government. Australia and the US are relatively fine when it comes to the privacy of their citizens (aside from some corporate abuse and recent anti-terrorism laws). As for Britain though, they do seem* to go way too far.

*That's the impression I get from the media atleast.
ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2006, 09:00:17 AM »
With the last reply you made we actually might be getting past the nitty gritty a little bit.  Technically, I do not disagree with anything in it.  I am not so sure we agree that the British empire was bad.  If as many socialists, you think it was primarily a bad thing, then we may agree quite a lot indeed.  I definitely think socialism is a lesser evil than capitalism, and I would go as far to say that socialists tend to be more intelligent than those persons who defend capitalism (Noam Chomsky vice the Pat Robertsons and Bill O'Reilly's - actually that's too gross a comparison;  I'll substitute a lesser but still competent intelligence like Michael Moore to reresent the socialist side and he is still more intelligent than the likes of those two and their kindred like Limbaugh, Rice, and Rumsfeld).  Perhaps William Kristol is the best they have, yet they continue to have their way.  Michael Dukakis's comments of 1988 often come to mind:  "Why am I losing to this guy?"

  Anyway, I am not saying the British empire resulted from democracy as it did not.  It had a lot to do with bringing about the modern world whether one sees it as good or bad.  And the British monarch has been a figure head since the papist Charles II was overthrown in 1688 by the protestants including Isaac Newton and all those retards who set up good ole racist, capitalist eighteenth century england.  (The goog ole bit was a joke.  It was actually quite bad.)

  As to capitalism, I believe it is merely a transitory system which ruined a previously stable and more Christian medieval system in which wealth was more widely distributed and the poorest were better off than now as opposed to what the capitalist historians (myth makers, or a better word:  liars) would have it. (A peasant in medieval usage was a worthy thing to be, and a proletariat is much lower than a serf:  he is a serf who has had his land taken from him by the nobility/wealthy capitalist class.  And in conformity with its history over the last four hundred years, capitalism (transitory in nature) is unfortunately leading to another stable economic system, namely the servile state (i.e. slavery).

  Way to go there, British empire and america...
(and for that matter their Spanish and even crusader precursors)

- Dionysios

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2006, 09:06:01 AM »
I reiterate that the family and friends I spent over a week with in Australia hated the invasion of privacy in public places.  The corrupt police turn their heads at drug growers in urban areas (which is definitely illegal there) and fine decent people hundreds of dollars for stuff like going five miles over the speed limit on a totally abandoned road.  (Yes, in case you were wondering, it was the ubiquitous video camera that catches 'em.)

- Dionysios

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2006, 04:45:37 AM »
To back what 'Itsround' remarked reguarding AIPAC (the American-Israel Public Affairs Council), if anyone doubts the extent of this umbrella organization's lobbying and influence in Congress and other influence they have throughout america including upon the current and past presidents and including recruiting on college and university campuses, then I invite such persons to visit AIPAC's own website at the following link:

www.aipac.org

  By the same token, anyone intersted in very knowledgeable reporting on the muslim world from Morocco to Indonesia from an objective perspective by a wide and varied array of syndicated writers, try the following as I have found it quite informative:

http://www.washington-report.org/

- Dionysios

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2006, 06:42:37 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Itsround hit the nail on the head with AIPAC.  The reason the major media does not report on AIPAC is because those who control AIPAC control the major media.  

  Erasmus,  I do not believe in judeo-christian philosophy either.  I believe in the God of the Christians.  The god of the judeo-christians is the Devil.

  The British empire was the lair of the Devil.  I have just been to Australia, and I have never seen so many cameras invading every aspect of life in my life.  The only thing that came close is the United States, but I here Britain is worse than the US in this respect.  With all respect I think you are naive reguarding the British empire.  It would be good if more people were familiar with the horrors of this empire which an earlier generation knew first hand (Such as the brutalities it inflicted on Kenyans in the 1950's, India in the 1940's and before, for example.)  The Aborigines in Australia were enslaved and massacred and resettled and not free during the entire presence of the British there.  How are they better off?  The Greek family I visited in Australia has two grown daughters who both work like slaves at multiple jobs.

  So much your ideal of freedom, Erasmus.  I do not doubt your good intentions, but it does not change the fact that you are masking coloialism, slavery, capitalism, debauchery and the economic and political wealth of the few at the expense of the very many.  In Cuba and China, (although westerniized and to a lamentable extent estranged from their pasts) the society is not captalist and their is less of a gap between the rich and poor as there is in america.  

  Thank God for people like johnsmith and Itsround.

- Dionysios


Oh my. I own some of those Soviet Life magazines from the 70s and 80s too. You know the communist propaganda magazines that show life all perfect and great in commumist Russia and Cuba. Seems there is at least one person that actually believed it. If living in Cuba is so great, why are there hundreds of thousands of people every year trying to SWIM across the Gulf of Mexico to get out? It's probably because the living conditions in Cuba are deplorable. Metal clad shantys and tents are where a majority of the population spend their lives. Sure there is universal education and healthcare. But Cuba is guilty of the same thing you claim the free-world's academic institutions of, brainwashing. What good is free education if you can only read books approved by the government with no differing point of views. And universal heatlhcare? If one travels to cuba looking for healthcare, he/she can get it. You will be met in one of cuba's clean, well-staffed, and well-equipped and state of the art Hospitals or clinics. You will probably meet other people from around the world that have come to Cuba for their excellent healthcare. The only thing missing is the Cubans. Infact Cubans are forced to use hospitals and clinics that are dirty, under-equipped, and full of less-then-adaquate doctors. Here are some pictures showing the different facilities: http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm
Now let's get back to my original point. If Cuba is so great, why are people trying to get away from it so bad that they will attempt to cross the Gulf to Florida on patched together intertubes? The story of Cuba is the story of one of the greatest, if not the greatest, propaganda campaigns in the entire history of the world. So oppresive and so cruel is Castro, that in 1993 his own Daughter, sickened with his behavior, escaped to Spain and now speaks out against her own father. If you are so inclined to believe that Cuba is a paradise, why not ask some Cubans first?

As for China, the only reason that is has been having any economic progress in the last 30 years is because it has been shifting to a more and more capitalistic economy. Because of this, countries like the US have lifted trading restrictions, allowing the flow of goods back and forth. Because of the amount of cheap labor in China, many companies have moved factories and other jobs requiring unskilled labor there. These workers then turn around and buy food and other goods, putting more money into the country's economy. Simple economics. The very fact that China has switched to a more Capitalistic economy shows that the socialist or communist models just don't work in competition with capitalistic ones. China still brutally represses any protest or movement against the government however, I have a Chinese colleague that lives in Shanghai that will confirm this.
Basically the reason that China is probably going to be the next big superpower, is that it is slowly opening up it's economic and social policies to being more liberalistic (in the 1790s sense of the word) instead of communist.

As to your "gap between the rich and poor" comment, I feel this is misleading. Sure in the US we may have people with next to no assets and money on the low end, and with several billion dollars in assets on the high end. One would think the gap is huge, and between the richest and poorest it is. But we also have a large amount of people in between. In the US, the poverty line, as of 2001, is considered $80,000 a year for a household of 2. I don't know about you, but if I had $80,000 a year coming in me and my girlfriend would be living pretty well off, I think our combined income is barely half that and we do fine.  So when you hear people saying "Oh half of the country in the US is below the poverty line!" it's incredibally misleading. Also Cuba, as well as China(until recently) lack oppurtunities. There are governmental progams, scholorships, charities, and religious organizations all around for lesser off people in the US, things that the communist countries in question lack. Also if you think the richest people in the US are somehow not carrying their share, consider for a moment that the top 10% of income earners in the US, that  means the top 10% of the richest in the US, pay 60% of income taxes in the US. These top 10% take up about 1% of the population. So the 1% of the richest people in America pay 60% of all the income taxes. Sounds pretty fair to me.

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2006, 01:27:40 PM »
Quote from: "Gustave5436"
I know that that is technically possible (especially in the past), but it is very, very difficult to do nowadays.  Especially when there are other people with huge headstarts at it, inheriting immense sums of money and even businesses themselves


It's actually very easy. With a solid business plan you can get a loan from a bank pretty easily. And the internet has made doing business for small businesses cheaper and easier. Ebay, Amazon.com, AOL, Dell, Flowers.com, several online game developers, SAP, several clothing retailers, and many many more businesses have emerged in the last 10 years from very small and exploded. Of course there have been many failed ones too, but many of these successful businesses that I mentioned above were started by people that have had businesses that failed before. Just because you fail, doesn't mean you can't get back up and try again. That's what is great about a capitalist model.

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2006, 01:29:44 PM »
The argument Capitalism Versus Socialism Deserves it's own thread it can be found here
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2245
Freindly Neighbourhood Moderator
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2006, 01:44:18 PM »
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Granted and I'm not saying capitalism is falwless, however I am wondering how people how really are hard working entrepeneurs would be treated in the system you propose
An curious
Cinlef


I should really talk to some people who know what they are talking about. I just throw all my political opinions together and call it socialism, as I generally agree with democratic socialists.

However, in the socialism I propose, those who work hard are payed more than those who do not.  Perhaps in the socialism I propose we keep the excellent supply-demand, competition, etc. system capitalism has but then make it equal and have the people all own the means of production.

Quote from: "troubadour"
Que? What country would you say is socialist then? You stated before that, "True socialism is democratic." If this is so, then how is a
social democracy =/= to your definition of socialism?


social democracy was in the past like democratic socialism, but now it has become people willing to use capitalism in its entirety, but include social programs.  Basically, most forms of social democray, except the most leftist, are pretty much only wellfare state capitalists (perhaps hoping for actual socialism in the future.  I don't know, I would have to talk to one

Socialism, actually, can be both communal and individualistic.  People work together and help each other with things, but society values the individual above all.  As long as the individual is willing to share and aid his fellow individuals.

I already stated that the socialism I favor uses some capitalism. A while ago I read something someone wrote about 'market socialism', which I found very interesting.  Perhaps the most accurate name I can think of for my system would be 'democratic market socialism'.  I do not deny the benefits of a capitalist economy, above all my socialist ideology is based on my belief that people are equal and that working together, rather than fighting each other, is far better for everyone.

perhaps I exaggerated a bit with 150,000.  I say that, poorer people don't have to worry about taxes so much, as it is a smaller total for a smaller income, and they probably have things they can deduct, in some cases not having to pay taxes at all.  Yes, Sweden is an exageratted welfare state, if taxes are that high and all they get is free healthcare and social programs if they can't work.

Yes, difficult work can be payed more, and people that were too lazy to go to college (the government would help out a lot with college in my system, so that pretty much everyone could afford to go to it).  As I said earlier in this post, I do take some of capitalism and put it into socialism.

Quote

What are you talking about? Everybody works for someone else, how is that a big deal? I'm not sure what skewed vision of reality you are living in. One second you say you are for individualism, the next you say you are against business. So what are people to do? Just go around and be individuals and ask the government for money? Where are you going to work if you can't work for someone else? You have to make your own business, which you can't do under this model because apparently it is wrong to hire people to help you run your business. You aren't making any sense.


The businesses are given to the people, ideally.  Really, I see that there are some problems with entrusting the people with doing everything, so I guess the government is forced to assist in this area.

Perhaps a form of capitalism would be fine with me, as long as people in this form of capitalism could stop fighting unnecessarily, help people when they need it, etc.  Also if everyone would be monetarily equal at birth, and would only become more wealthy if they worked harder in life.  However, this capitalism also needs to have society support people unable to work.  This is could be problematic, as I dislike greed, etc. but these things seem to be the driving force of capitalism in reality.

Ideally I guess a simple change in society, so that people would see how pointless violence is, and that people would be willing to share if others need assistance, would be enough.

The problem is I'm just too idealistic

edit: sorry, didn't see the other thread 'till after I made this post

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2006, 02:15:42 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
So much your ideal of freedom, Erasmus.  I do not doubt your good intentions, but it does not change the fact that you are masking coloialism, slavery, capitalism, debauchery and the economic and political wealth of the few at the expense of the very many.  In Cuba and China, (although westerniized and to a lamentable extent estranged from their pasts) the society is not captalist and their is less of a gap between the rich and poor as there is in america.


I don't see anything inherently evil either in exploitation or in a gap between rich and poor.  My ideal for society is excellence in human achievement and the supremacy of the individual.

As such I deplore slavery, as well as the theft of resources from the poor to line the pockets of the rich -- the poor are individuals too.  On the other hand I do not believe that communism or theocratism are any less likely to lead to slavery and oppression than is capitalism.  If I had to guess, I would suggest that slavery is in fact more likely in those systems.

I do not (at least, I try not to) adhere to antiquated tribal notions of the needs of the many.

Quote
Thank God


If by God you mean Prometheus, then I will.  Otherwise, what has God done for us?

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2006, 06:04:23 AM »
Cinlef,

  I either absent mindedly posted in the wrong category, or you completely jacked up the train of thought in this thread:

  I remarked that troubador's critical comments of Cuba and China made him a candidate for the John Birch Society, and americanist and anti-communist organization.  The Society's views are very pro-american.  I am totally confused with respect to the capitalism versus socialism post and all.  I do not remember initiaiting that post (unless it wasdone a long time ago and I forgot about it).  It appears that my commeent about the Birch Society in that post is totally out of context.  Did you repost it there?  It does not make any sense unless it appears after Troubador's remarks about Cuba and China.  

  If I absent mindedly posted wrong, then I apologize, but if you reassigned the post there then my question is "No offense, but what the hell. man?"  Why don't you watch it just randomly sloshing stuff around?

- DIonysios

?

joffenz

  • The Elder Ones
  • 1272
THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2006, 10:31:49 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
I don't see anything inherently evil either in exploitation or in a gap between rich and poor.  

as well as the theft of resources from the poor to line the pockets of the rich -- the poor are individuals too.


Explotation IS theft of resources from the poor to the rich - the resource being wage-labour.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
My ideal for society is excellence in human achievement and the supremacy of the individual.

I do not (at least, I try not to) adhere to antiquated tribal notions of the needs of the many.


Er...almost all ancient tribes placed a great deal of emphasis on individual acheivement. Civilised nations emphase the society. Think of  the old greek phrase:

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."

As opposed to, say, the Highland forces at the battle of Culloden where the Highlander's were willing to charge at a cannon just to prove their bravery.

Consider the Gauls and the Romans. The gauls fought as individuals, the Romans as a disciplined, united force. The Romans won.

*

PizzaPlanet

  • 12253
  • Now available in stereo
Re: THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2011, 02:33:09 PM »
ITT: TRUTH
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

?

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1317
Re: THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2011, 07:40:57 PM »
The original link which I posted no longer brings up the same page. 
It is now located here:
http://radioislam.org/jewish-photos/jewish-usa-by-phtos/usrael.htm

At the opposite end of the spectrum, this video shows Ahmadinejad meeting with the anti-zionist rabbis of Neturei Karta who advocate "the speedy and peaceful dismantlement of the state of israel."


+Dionysios

*

Lorddave

  • 16394
Re: THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2011, 07:48:54 PM »
The original link which I posted no longer brings up the same page. 
It is now located here:
http://radioislam.org/jewish-photos/jewish-usa-by-phtos/usrael.htm

At the opposite end of the spectrum, this video shows Ahmadinejad meeting with the anti-zionist rabbis of Neturei Karta who advocate "the speedy and peaceful dismantlement of the state of israel."


+Dionysios

See my problem is... why must the Jewish state be dismantled?  Can't we just live and let live?  It's not like the land itself is valuable, strategic, or even very good.  It's a small chunk that's smaller than New Jersey. 

I'll even wager a bet that if Jerusalem wasn't part of it, there wouldn't have been any problems.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

?

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1317
Re: THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2011, 10:21:04 PM »
In ... China ... the society is not capitalist ...

Due to further study of Chinese history after this post was made, I would now assert that Chinese society was not capitalist during the era of Mao Tse Tung which ended in 1976, but China relapsed into capitalism during the era of Deng Xiao Peng which began in 1978.  China has been slowly but steadily transforming back into a capitalist, colonized, and oppressed society since that time.

China has not degenerated as rapidly as Russia under Putin, but the 1989 Tiannemen Square massacre of protesters indicates a westernized government that had abandoned the principles of Mao Tse Tung as it followed those of Ronald Reagan during the 1980's.  Many western observers are very ignorant about China and blame Mao for the crimes of his enemies.

?

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1317
Re: THE REAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2011, 11:53:37 PM »
A victory for justice, women, and the jewish left:

The israeli supreme court sentenced former likud israeli president Moshe Katsav to seven years in prison for rape and other crimes.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-11-10/israel-moshe-katsav-rape/51154652/1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Katsav