Parachutes

you must remember you are starting at the same velocity as the earth so you will initially lose altitude you will re accelerate back up to 9.8m/s². now in some cases you would land because you are already close enough to the ground for the earth to catch up to you, but at higher altitudes you would eventually reach your FE "terminal velocity" and you will just be floating there.

you must remember you are starting at the same velocity as the earth so you will initially lose altitude you will re accelerate back up to 9.8m/s². now in some cases you would land because you are already close enough to the ground for the earth to catch up to you, but at higher altitudes you would eventually reach your FE "terminal velocity" and you will just be floating there.

Terminal velocity would be your speed toward the ground. The value would be positive. Since speed = distance/time, after a short time you'd cover the distance to the ground. You would not just be floating there.

there is a reason i put it in quotes what I meant by that is that your velocity and the velocity of the earth would be the same.

there is a reason i put it in quotes what I meant by that is that your velocity and the velocity of the earth would be the same.

Okay then... The FE would continue to accelerate. You would not accelerate as much as some of the supporting air passed through and around your parachute. The FE's ground would reach you.

initially but as the air contnues to accelerate the relative velocity of the air increases so your acceleration up will match that of the earth

initially but as the air contnues to accelerate the relative velocity of the air increases so your acceleration up will match that of the earth

Sorry, no. The air that gets by your chute fails to accelerate you, so your acceleration is less than the air's, and thereby less than the FE's ground. As the air gets by you faster, you lose acceleration at an even faster rate.

you must remember you are starting at the same velocity as the earth so you will initially lose altitude you will re accelerate back up to 9.8m/s².

Why? Like I said, unless the air resistance manages to accelerate you to this figure the Earth WILL catch up.

initially but as the air contnues to accelerate the relative velocity of the air increases so your acceleration up will match that of the earth

The question is CAN air resistance accelerate you to 9.8m/s² relative to an outside observer? If it can, according to the FE model, you will remain at an equal distance away from the Earth. If your acceleration is greater than the Earth's you will be move away from Earth's surface, while if your acceleration is less than the Earth's you touchdown on the ground. 

the only thing holding you back at first is your inertial mass after that your acceleration will increase until it matches the acceleration of the earth. the canopy will trap a good portion of the air so you will accelerate up to 9.8m/s² in a relatively short period of time

the only thing holding you back at first is your inertial mass after that your acceleration will increase until it matches the acceleration of the earth. the canopy will trap a good portion of the air so you will accelerate up to 9.8m/s² in a relatively short period of time

A good portion of the air != all the air.  Therefore you won't get all of the acceleration of the air, and you will not accelerate >= 9.8m/s/s

the only thing holding you back at first is your inertial mass after that your acceleration will increase until it matches the acceleration of the earth. the canopy will trap a good portion of the air so you will accelerate up to 9.8m/s² in a relatively short period of time

A "relatively short period of time"?

1 minute? 2 minutes? The time it takes to travel half of the distance to the Earth? The time it takes for light to travel from Sirius to the Earth? Be more specific.

Quote from: cbarnett97 on August 23, 2007, 08:28:07 PM

the only thing holding you back at first is your inertial mass after that your acceleration will increase until it matches the acceleration of the earth. the canopy will trap a good portion of the air so you will accelerate up to 9.8m/s² in a relatively short period of time

A good portion of the air != all the air.  Therefore you won't get all of the acceleration of the air, and you will not accelerate >= 9.8m/s/s

Um...what?

A good portion of the air does not equal all of the air.  Therefore, you will not get all of the acceleration from the air, and your acceleration will not be greater than or equal to 9.8 meters per second per second.


EDIT:  I like using coding shortcuts such as != and >=, I'm sorry if they confused you.

I will partially correct myself here, you will not acclerate away from the earth but you would maintain a static distance away from the earth.

Quote from: cbarnett97 on August 23, 2007, 08:28:07 PM

the only thing holding you back at first is your inertial mass after that your acceleration will increase until it matches the acceleration of the earth. the canopy will trap a good portion of the air so you will accelerate up to 9.8m/s² in a relatively short period of time

A good portion of the air != all the air.  Therefore you won't get all of the acceleration of the air, and you will not accelerate >= 9.8m/s/s

Quoted for Excellence

I will partially correct myself here, you will not acclerate away from the earth but you would maintain a static distance away from the earth.

No, your acceleration will not be greater than OR EQUAL TO 9.8 m/s/s, your acceleration will be less than that of the Earth's; the Earth will eventually collide with you.

A good portion of the air does not equal all of the air.  Therefore, you will not get all of the acceleration from the air, and your acceleration will not be greater than or equal to 9.8 meters per second per second.

I know the notation...I don't know how you went from:

"air != all the air
therefore, you will not accelerate >= 9.8m/s/s"

I will partially correct myself here, you will not acclerate away from the earth but you would maintain a static distance away from the earth.

The air and your parachute does not equal a physical post holding you above the Earth.

Ok, I'm just thinking here, but...  For you to maintain an altitude with the parachute, wouldn't the air hitting the parachute have to be 100% efficient?  I mean, wouldn't air being moved around in the parachute, and sliding around it make that not 100%, so you couldn't just stay at an altitude?

If the chute stopped ALL THE AIR instead of A GOOD PORTION OF THE AIR, you will accelerate at 9.8m/s/s.  If the chute doesn't stop ALL THE AIR, but instead stops A GOOD PORTION OF THE AIR, you will not accelerate at 9.8m/s/s or more because some of the energy doesn't get transfered to you.



EDIT:

Ok, I'm just thinking here, but...  For you to maintain an altitude with the parachute, wouldn't the air hitting the parachute have to be 100% efficient?  I mean, wouldn't air being moved around in the parachute, and sliding around it make that not 100%, so you couldn't just stay at an altitude?

QFT

I guess no one remembered when I said that any experiment or observation of this kind (remember the lollipop example) will not yield you the results you desire.  The EP (I sure as hell hope my parachute is larger than a closet!) assures us that you would not be able to tell the difference between 'gravity' and acceleration.

Edited: Clarity

Let me try an analogy.
Let's say that an imaginary, special mailbox on a post. The post holds the mailbox off the FE's ground by 3 feet.

Let's envision a wicked, new insect that carries the wood of the post, one piece at a time, up over the mailbox--a termite with wings.

After the insect does its harvesting of the entire post, the mailbox will rest on the FE's ground.

Now substitute:
Mailbox for chute
air for wood
column of air for post
the nature of air for insect.

That's one wicked insect, dude.

first off nice to see more thatn 5 words writen here, but air, especially air accelerating at that speed can create quite a bit of force, after 5 sec. or so the relative velocity of the air will have reached hurricane force speeds. and it has the ability to accelerate a body to 9.8m/s². If I push a car up a hill and my feet slip a little bit I am still able to push the car

first off nice to see more thatn 5 words writen here, but air, especially air accelerating at that speed can create quite a bit of force, after 5 sec. or so the relative velocity of the air will have reached hurricane force speeds. and it has the ability to accelerate a body to 9.8m/s². If I push a car up a hill and my feet slip a little bit I am still able to push the car

But the car will go down the hill.  Now this situation will be like you ALWAYS pushing, but also always slipping.

Let me try an analogy.
Let's say that an imaginary, special mailbox on a post. The post holds the mailbox off the FE's ground by 3 feet.

Let's envision a wicked, new insect that carries the wood of the post, one piece at a time, up over the mailbox--a termite with wings.

After the insect does its harvesting of the entire post, the mailbox will rest on the FE's ground.

Now substitute:
Mailbox for chute
air for wood
column of air for post
the nature of air for insect.

have you ever seen thos indoor skydiving places? they manage to match the acceleration of the earth using only air and they do not even have the luxury of a large parachute to increase the wind resistance

Quote from: cbarnett97 on August 23, 2007, 08:49:57 PM

first off nice to see more thatn 5 words writen here, but air, especially air accelerating at that speed can create quite a bit of force, after 5 sec. or so the relative velocity of the air will have reached hurricane force speeds. and it has the ability to accelerate a body to 9.8m/s². If I push a car up a hill and my feet slip a little bit I am still able to push the car

But the car will go down the hill.  Now this situation will be like you ALWAYS pushing, but also always slipping.

no, it will just be that not all of your energy will be put into pushing the car, but there will still be a net force acting on the car to push it up the hill

Quote from: Mr. Ireland on August 23, 2007, 08:53:03 PM

Quote from: cbarnett97 on August 23, 2007, 08:49:57 PM

first off nice to see more thatn 5 words writen here, but air, especially air accelerating at that speed can create quite a bit of force, after 5 sec. or so the relative velocity of the air will have reached hurricane force speeds. and it has the ability to accelerate a body to 9.8m/s². If I push a car up a hill and my feet slip a little bit I am still able to push the car

But the car will go down the hill.  Now this situation will be like you ALWAYS pushing, but also always slipping.

no, it will just be that not all of your energy will be put into pushing the car, but there will still be a net force acting on the car to push it up the hill

Well, if the airs full 'energy' to keep you away from the earth can keep you at 9.8m/s^2 (still when comparred with the earth), and not all of the 'energy' can go into maintaining that 9.8m/s^2, then how can you keep 9.8m/s^2?

it will just take longer to re-reach that acceleration

you must also remember that if the FE theory was true then we would be able to see this effect even if it takes longer to accelerate to 9.8m/s² than it takes to reach the ground. because we would be able to track a continious decrease in our velocity as we neared the earth

You should review the conservation laws.

But you can't re-reach that acceleration.  For every second of 'energy' put into keeping your altitute, there is the same amount of 'energy' not put into it as the last second, so you will continue to fall.