THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« on: April 16, 2006, 08:04:22 PM »
This forum is not a flat earth society.
  To my knowledge not one of the moderators including the new ones believe in a flat earth.  And as a matter of fact, most of them argue vehemently and/or consistently against it.  I have been a member of this forum since last October which is longer than any of the moderators (with the exception of Enraged Penguin - he's got me by a week) were ever members, and I have never seen any evidence that the founder Daniel has stated he believes that the earth is flat.  I am not convinced at all that Daniel believes the earth is flat or that anyone on this forum does other than perhaps a couple or so insignificant people who are not moderators.
   Very often many persons have expressed disgust with the fact that there is so much idle talk on this forum, and that it is pointless.  I fully agree with this view, that the forum is totally useless for discussing the subject for which the society bears its name.  

  First of all, the kind of world postulated, is a man-made model concocted in the nineteenth century to conform with modern science - in my opinion largely a bunch of rubbish (a modern flat earth earthism which satisfies the minds of those  enslaved to modern ideas.)  A traditional cosmology of the Church Fathers and ancients is the old way, the ancient truth, not eccentric british ideas from 125 years ago which are a pathetic half-hearted apologetic modern flat earthism.  

  A legitimate flat earth society (unlike this one) would have a very restricted and limited membership and not include persons who ridiculed the idea which this forum actually elevates to moderators.

  To reflect the true nature of this forum, I recommend this forum change its name to the Anti-Flat Earth Society.

- Dionysios

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2006, 08:12:27 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
A legitimate flat earth society (unlike this one) would have a very restricted and limited membership and not include persons who ridiculed the idea which this forum actually elevates to moderators.


I was under the impression that this forum was designed in part to convince people that the earth is flat. If no-one other than believers were allowed to join, then that would be impossible.

Secondly, the supposed lack of people on the forum who actually believe the Earth is flat is a reflection of the people who join, not some intrinsic value of the site itself. And if the forum is open to anyone (which it should be), then this is not something that can be controlled.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2006, 08:35:27 PM »
I am not advocating limiting membership to this forum.  If I established a serious flat earth society, it would be more along the lines of the defunct and elitist Flat Earth Society of Canada (which had more strenuous rules for membership and a more traditional flat earth cosmology with a Roman Catholic background based on Aethicus of Istria, the Venetian/Croatian geographer of circa 650 AD).

  As far as this site goes, it seemed at first glance to me as well that the purpose was to convince people the earth was flat, but I can see that is very much not the case.  In the case of this site, I believe a simple name change would be a lot less misleading.  

  To be fair, the one rather worthy thing is the posting of a fair amount of flat earth material on this site which makes available to all for copying, printing, downloading, et cetera the previously rather scarce material which 99.99% of the persons who visit the site would have never come across, even though this material concerns almost exclusively the nineteenth century model.  Alas, I was referring to the disappointing "flat earth society" forums as opposed to the significantly more worthwhile textual material.

- Dionysios

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bullhorn

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2006, 08:43:57 PM »
The more people that see the truth the better

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2006, 08:55:33 PM »
so u like this forum even if they mock your ideas?

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Chaltier

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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2006, 09:39:36 PM »
Perhaps I'm one of the few here who actually do believe that Earth is flat, but I assure you we're here.

On another note, you expressed disdain toward the disc-shaped Earth ideas, preferring the old models. I'd be very interested to hear what you've to say about it, if you truly are a believer in the old models.

Don't be surprised if I send you a PM about it at some point in the near future if my idea in the Suggestions topic for an FE-only section of the board isn't taken, otherwise I'll begin a topic there on it. The whole reason for proposing an FE-only board was, after all, to have a place to discuss such things without RE interference and flaming.


--Chal

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Erasmus

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Re: THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2006, 11:20:06 PM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
the kind of world postulated, is a man-made model concocted in the nineteenth century to conform with modern science - in my opinion largely a bunch of rubbish (a modern flat earth earthism which satisfies the minds of those  enslaved to modern ideas.)  A traditional cosmology of the Church Fathers and ancients is the old way, the ancient truth,


Wait wait... modern science is rubbish, and the traditional cosmology of the Church Fathers and ancients (presumably excluding Pythagoras and Ptolemy and their ilk) is "ancient truth"?

I think I'm starting to figure you out.  Basically, you seem to seek out the most offensive, unpopular, and irrational ideas, and latch onto them, is that it?  That's an interesting epistemology: "If people will think me a bigot, a fool, a lunatic, or a cretin for believing X.... then that's what I'll believe!"

Quote
A legitimate flat earth society (unlike this one) would have a very restricted and limited membership and not include persons who ridiculed the idea which this forum actually elevates to moderators.


Absolutely right.  It's important to squash dissent and criticism at every turn.... what were the admins thinking?  You have taken the Chairman's example admirably, Dionysios.

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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joffenz

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Re: THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 01:26:34 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"

  To my knowledge not one of the moderators including the new ones believe in a flat earth.  And as a matter of fact, most of them argue vehemently and/or consistently against it.  


Really? I thought it was the other way around. Find me a thread where a moderator argues against FE, and I'll find you threee more where they argue for it.

For a start, take a look at:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13027&highlight=#13027
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1610

There's plenty more of them too. Also consider without Erasmus half of your theories would have fallen down.

Quote from: "Dionysios"

I am not convinced at all that Daniel believes the earth is flat


I'm not convinced you believe the Earth is flat.
   
Also explain this:
Quote from: "Dionysios"

As far as this site goes, it seemed at first glance to me as well that the purpose was to convince people the earth was flat, but I can see that is very much not the case.

But look at the front page of the site

Quote from: "The Front Page"
Welcome to the flatearthsociety.org. This site is dedicated to the discussion of Flat Earth theories. We welcome both skeptics and believers.


This is not an FE club, it's a discussion forum. Start a prrivate club if you want, so you can have your discussions without RE intervention. However, if you actually know that the Earth is flat, why are you so afraid to let people argue against it?

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 03:59:01 AM »
Chaltier,

  I am aware there exist other genuine flat earthers on the forum.  I look forward to your message when you get the chance as I think it could be profitable to exchange communication without interference.  Interference and stupid comments (not the least from some of the moderators) has actually prevented me from establishing communication with other flat earthers through this forum.  If cheesejof really wanted the forum to actually accomplich to some degree what it declared its intention is (and has miserably failed in my book), then the best thing he could do for me is to simply shut up.  If you listened to some of the moderators, you would be led to believe that i was a pretty horrible individual.  (Is it too much to ask to simply find another flat earther to discuss a few related things about science, etc.?  Sorry, to say but you would be the first in over a decade.  You had better hurry if you want that distinction, however as I am soon to be in northern India where I understand a degree of flat earth belief actually does persist.)

  As to cheesejof's insults like "I'm not sure you're a flat earther," etc, I am not sure of some things about cheesejof either, but I'll remain silent as to these as their mention would likely get me kicked off the forum.  My point is that cheesejof should understand that some things are actually better left unsaid.  There is an appropriate place for secrecy.

- Dionysios

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joffenz

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2006, 05:43:29 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Chaltier,
Interference and stupid comments (not the least from some of the moderators) has actually prevented me from establishing communication with other flat earthers through this forum.  


Point me to one example of where a moderator's comment has stopped you establishing communication with a flat-Earther.

Quote from: "Dionysios"

If cheesejof really wanted the forum to actually accomplich to some degree what it declared its intention is (and has miserably failed in my book), then the best thing he could do for me is to simply shut up.  


Fine, I'll stop defending your theory then. Just so you know I've been mistaken for a flat-Earther twice now because I defend your theory so much, but if you believe I should stop doing this then that's fine.

Also, I found it hypocritical how you can tell me to shut up but complain when someone "insults" you. I use inverted commas because I have never seen these insults myself.

Quote from: "Dionysios"
If you listened to some of the moderators, you would be led to believe that i was a pretty horrible individual.


Again, give me some proof of where you've been called a pretty horrible individual.

Quote from: "Dionysios"
As to cheesejof's insults like "I'm not sure you're a flat earther,"


That wasn't an insult. That was a valid response to your point about you not being sure if Daniel was a flat-Earther. You offered absolutely no evidence for your view, so I offered no evidence for mine. If my view is an insult, then yours is too.

Quote from: "Dionysios"

etc, I am not sure of some things about cheesejof either, but I'll remain silent as to these as their mention would likely get me kicked off the forum.


If you have any complaints to make about me, send me a private message . It'll be completely confidential and we can resolve this issue quickly.

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EnragedPenguin

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2006, 07:07:31 AM »
So what's your complaint here Dionysios? are you angry that there are no flat earth believer moderators (aside from Daniel, who I am almost certain is a FE'r)?  I'll tell you what the reason for that is, and it's actually quite simple; when Daniel asked for volunteers for new moderators, the only people who stepped up were Cinlef and pspunit. Later on when we needed two more, there were no flat Earth believers posting regularly at the time, so we elected Erasmus and cheesejoff because we felt they were trustworthy and would be fair (and if you have any evidence that that is not the case let me know).
A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2006, 07:23:16 AM »
Annoying Penguin,

  I am already familiar with everything you posted.

  And by the way, you are ALMOST CERTAIN that your organization's leader believes in the avowed cause which neither you nor any of the other trustees believe in?
  Sounds like a real tight-knit group, pardon the sarcasm.

- Dionysios

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2006, 07:27:10 AM »
Annoying Penguin,

  On second thought it may perhaps be a tight-knit group after all, in a sort of anti-flat earth kind of way.

- Dionysios

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EnragedPenguin

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2006, 07:57:54 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
 I am already familiar with everything you posted.


So then what's the problem?

Quote
And by the way, you are ALMOST CERTAIN that your organization's leader believes in the avowed cause which neither you nor any of the other trustees believe in?
 


I say "almost certain" because I am only "almost certain" that you are a human being, and not some alien life form floating in orbit around this planet posting messages from your bio-computer made of living space corral. I can't be "certain" what anyone is, but from my observations I would say I'm ninety nine percent sure he is a flat earther.
A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.

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joffenz

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2006, 08:36:15 AM »
The problem here is that Dionysios cannot take it when someone disagrees with him. He thinks that the purpose of these forums is for Flat-Earthers to declare their beliefs and have the Round-Earthers nods their heads, smile and casually go along with them.

That's not the case at all, the purpose of a discussion board is to discusswhich measn having both sides of the argument heard. You'd expect that someone who believes in highly controversial theories (Flat Earth theory, Holocaust revisionism) he 'd expect disagreements and he'd be willing to defend his beliefs, but he isn't. All he does is complain when his points are rebutted:

Quote from: "Dionysios"
the moderators pat each other on the back for their "scientific refutations", et cetera


So apprently moderators shouldn't be able to debate. Interesting idea, I'm sure he that if any moderators were Flat-Earthers he'd have no problems with them debating since he complains so much about the lack of FE mods.

he even goes as far to say that we argue against FE theory:

Quote from: "Dionysios"
To my knowledge not one of the moderators including the new ones believe in a flat earth. And as a matter of fact, most of them argue vehemently and/or consistently against it.


And he still hasn't explained these two threads where you can see myself, Erasmus and Enraged Penguin argue FOR the Flat Earth theory.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13027&highlight=#13027
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1610

Dionysios, when was the last time you defended your own theory? I've seen Chaltier do it, I've seen Bullhorn do it, but never you. I have my FAQ, where's your's? Do you think I'd go to the trouble of compiling an extremely long document which gives arguements for the Fe side if I was a "vehement attacker" of the theory?

It appears Dionysios is living in a fantasy world where the moderators are evil censoring robots who clamp down on his ideas, despite the fact that they frequently argue for the FE theory and anyone who debates him is offending him for daring to discuss something on a discussion forum! The outrage!

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2006, 10:10:20 AM »
the

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2006, 10:34:42 AM »
the

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joffenz

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2006, 10:47:13 AM »
Most of your points were strawman, but I found this one funny:

Quote from: "Dionysios"

More people to join you in mocking us, eh jackass?  (I suppose you'll be like Daniel and consider banning/censoring me for that one even as you proclaim how tolerant you are.)


I quote from a post you made in the Rules in the Everything Else forum:

Quote from: "Dionysios"
Recommend not allowing any profanity.

- Dionysios


I'm not going to ban or censor you, but if I listened to your recommendation then I might.

Quote from: "Dionysios"
I do not see the forum advocating even his view however


Quote from: "Dionysios"
I never had any desire to debate flat earthism from the day I entered this forum, and that is not changing.


Perhaps the reason you do not see this view advocated is because you do not advocate it? If you advocate a view, people will disagree with you. This is the nature, no, the purpose of a forum.

If you don't want to debate, fine. Just realise that although you do not wish to debate, other people do not hold the same view. This is a fundemantal concept you fail to grasp. You even argue against people who argue!

I also find it ironic how you claim that you don't want to argue then post a very critical opinion of these very forums. You seem to have a notion that if you go onto a forum and express your view everyone will say "Wow, you know what, he's right!". And if anyone doesn't do this, you seek to censor their opinion - and then you complain about your own opinion being censored!

Quote from: "Dionysios"

(And by the way, you're an outrage to civilized discussion.)


You don't even partake in civilised discussion, you merely complain about people who disagree with you. If anyone puts forward a view you don't agree with, you will attack them doubly - first for holding the view, and second for putting it forward.


If you do not wish to discuss FE theory then don't. No one's forcing you to do debate. Just don't complain when other people do it.

A Remonstrance to the Anti-Flat Earth Society
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2006, 11:07:45 AM »
the

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2006, 11:28:36 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
I say again the title of the organization is misleading.


It seems like you keep complaining about this (among a bunch of other things).  "Why do you have to confuse me?!  This is the ANTI-FLAT EARTH SOCIETY!"  What you fail to realize is that sometimes a name isn't what you'd expect.  This site has many debates about the FE model and RE model.  "But people here believe in a round earth!  That's just not right!"  *Reaches for the Kleenex*  You know what else has a mis-leading title?  The World is Flat by Thomas L. Friedman.  Who would've thought that he would be referring to globalization instead of the shape of the earth?
ooyakasha!

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Lord Wilmore

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2006, 11:54:28 AM »
Dionysios, I think you should probably stop, before someone calls a waaambulance.

It's a discussion forum, not www.google.cn, so quite why you think discussion should be moderated to the point where no-one who doesn't believe is allowed to talk is beyond me.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2006, 12:04:33 PM »
the

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joffenz

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2006, 12:08:47 PM »
Ok then Dionysios, how about this idea:

We create a seperate forum in Gneral discussion where no one can post any negative view of the FE theory. No one can say how stupid they think it is, or point out any flaw in it, or anything like that.

I know Chaltier suggested something similiar to this, but the difference here is anyone can read and post in it so long as they either believe the Earth is flat or, for the purposes of the discussion assume the Earth to be flat.

What do you say?

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2006, 12:17:06 PM »
Cheesejoff if we're going to have a special forum that doesn't allow any differing viewpoints as to the shape of the earth then I'd like to request I get my own forum where only people who believe I'm God can post.  lol
ooyakasha!

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joffenz

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THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2006, 12:19:44 PM »
Quote from: "Knight"
Cheesejoff if we're going to have a special forum that doesn't allow any differing viewpoints as to the shape of the earth then I'd like to request I get my own forum where only people who believe I'm God can post.  lol


That would be appropriate for a "Knight is God" site. And anyway I didn't say that only Flat-Earthers can post, I just said that it's a non debate forum. You can still post their if you don't believe the Earth is flat, it's just that you can't debate it there.

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2006, 12:29:26 PM »
the

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Lord Wilmore

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« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2006, 12:41:23 PM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Quote from: "Knight"
Cheesejoff if we're going to have a special forum that doesn't allow any differing viewpoints as to the shape of the earth then I'd like to request I get my own forum where only people who believe I'm God can post.  lol


That would be appropriate for a "Knight is God" site. And anyway I didn't say that only Flat-Earthers can post, I just said that it's a non debate forum. You can still post their if you don't believe the Earth is flat, it's just that you can't debate it there.


What would the point of it be?

"Hey guys, the Earth is flat."

"Yeah it is."

"Yeah, it's really flat."

"You know what? It's flat."

If we can't debate or discuss FE theory, what exactly are we going to do in there?
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2006, 12:50:04 PM »
This has to be one of the least sensible "I hate you guys this forum sucks I'm leaving" posts I've seen in a while, and I've seen lots of them.

As far as I can tell, the main complaint coming from Dionysis is that the forum is labeled "The Flat Earth Society", but the largest majority of the member base believes in round earth (even though many of them, myself included, usually defend the FE model). Further, he complains that those of us playing "The Devil's Advocate" should only defend positions we belive in ourselves.

That is simply ridiculous. Seeking to fully understand another's position is nothing but admirable, and that is what we RE'ers are doing when we debate on behalf of FE. How you can ask us to stop is beyond me.

And I have to agree with NEEMAN appraisal: what would a forum which only allows FE's to join discuss?

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2006, 01:01:37 PM »
I am not so sure I would even believe it good unless non-flat earthers were banned from posting.  At the least I think a flat earther could be the moderator (as long as one were up to it).
  As to your question on the utility of such a forum, i had mentioned above that the richest ideas had never even gotten off the ground, and the rampant criticim had tended to stifle my expression.  I still believe what I believe, of course, but the effect of this wildly democratic kind of forum is to kill the expression of anything except the basest ideas.  It is good and necessary that some controls have been aded to this forum with time and it has become more civilised as a result even though it carries the biases I have referred to which make a category like this desirable.  (One could also ask what is the purpose of the whole forum?  Do you think that should be done away with as being just as useless as the proposed category.)  To end, the proposed category could be a small step (depending on the rules attached to it) towards the significant dissemination of scientific truth.

- Dionysios

THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY FORUMS EXPOSED
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2006, 01:01:41 PM »
Your orthodoxy is brazenly apparent, sir.
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

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