"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan

I love conpsiracy theories. Why? They're frequently true.

Someone could come up to me and say "the entire world government is controlled my an invisibale space squid" and I would reply "I'm listening".

..but.. I would require more evidence than "theoretically dis-prooving the absence of a space-squid".
I would require some giant evidence. Something that made THEM believe.. more than just "you can't DISPROVE that tornados are caused by the space-squid!" or "if the government WAS controlled by a space squid, they would act EXACTLY like they do now!".

I've looked through these forums a bit. So far the only "evidence" of FE I've seen is "this and that RO phenomenon could theoretically be explained by FE".

Not only is there no "extraordinary" evidence for this monumental claim.. there seems to be NONE. ZERO. No actual evidence at all.
... well, there's no more evidence for FE than there is for the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Invisible Pink Unicorns.

What could possibly make a reasonable, sane person beleive something so far fetched?
Photographs from space?
Personal observation? (being in space.. impossible for most)

What evidence seems to exist?
*Photos?
We have literally hundreds of thousands (if not more) of photos from space which show the earth round.
We have.. let me see... exactly 0 photos from space which show the earth flat.
The conclusion: 100% of space photos are FAKE, and no one is able to take real photos in space.
The problem: This conclusion REQUIRES that you ALREADY firmly believe in FE! This can not be the thing that convinces you!
*Other planets?
It would appear that every other planet in the universe is round. Including those in our solar system, which we have - again - hundreds of thousands of photos of. (look on NASAs free photo archive)
The conclusion?: Not only are they fake, but many random NASA employees are in on it, along with countless people in other country's space programs.
The problem: Again, this requires you to ALREADY have a firm belief.
*God said so?
Prove it. All I see is paper. If God did say so.. and I rewrote the Bible to say the earth is a triangle.. would you know? Of course not.
It's essentially a piece of paper which says "signed by God" on it.

..so..

..to conclude..

..where's the EXTRAORDINARY hard evidence that made you believe this EXTRAORDINARY theory?
Links?*
Images?
Video?

*Links to photos or video... or a goverment offical admitting a conspiracy..not someone saying "I totally have some photos and video", or some random person saying "there's totally a conspiracy".

..Something more than "well.. planes going to the south pole could theoretically get swept through a crazy vortex to the north one" or "the curve of the Earth you see in an airplane could theoretically be caused by some optical illusion" or "the entire f*cking March of The Penguins movie could have been theoretically shot with freaking robots and I know this because it contradicts my theory".

I think the roundness of the earth is the extraordinary claim here.

Another person wanting proof of a conspiracy. Don't people get the flaw in logic there?

I think the roundness of the earth is the extraordinary claim here.

lol

of all the random responses I could have expected.. I did not expect that.


What we started with: No idea of the shape of the earth. It looks flat at surface level, so we assumed it was.
Testing (IE space travel) showed: Holy crap, it's round. And so are all other planets in the universe. And the sun. And the freaking MOON which we can see from earth. And.. pretty much all planetary bodies.
You guys: No it's not, you're all liars and there's a giant conpsiracy.

How is the Earth being round the extraordinary claim here?
And where's my freaking evidence?

Another person wanting proof of a conspiracy. Don't people get the flaw in logic there?

Okay fine, I don't want PROOF of a conspiracy.. that's impossible.. due to the conspiracy..

..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat, which therefore created your idea of a conspiracy, since the earth is flat, and we think it's round, so there would need to be a conspiracy.

Quote from: Roundy Loves Gayer on August 17, 2007, 02:00:36 PM

I think the roundness of the earth is the extraordinary claim here.

lol

of all the random responses I could have expected.. I did not expect that.


What we started with: No idea of the shape of the earth. It looks flat at surface level, so we assumed it was.
Testing (IE space travel) showed: Holy crap, it's round. And so are all other planets in the universe. And the sun. And the freaking MOON which we can see from earth. And.. pretty much all planetary bodies.
You guys: No it's not, you're all liars and there's a giant conpsiracy.

How is the Earth being round the extraordinary claim here?
And where's my freaking evidence?

Well, it looks flat.  So that it is round is the theory that requires extraordinary evidence.  I haven't seen evidence extraordinary enough to fit the bill.  Sorry.  

...for example..

..my "giant space squid conspiracy"...

..my entire "proof" could not be "you can't disprove it because there's a conspiracy!!!!"

..you need.. you know..

...actual proof.

Quote from: Roundy Loves Gayer on August 17, 2007, 02:00:36 PM

I think the roundness of the earth is the extraordinary claim here.

lol

of all the random responses I could have expected.. I did not expect that.


What we started with: No idea of the shape of the earth. It looks flat at surface level, so we assumed it was.
Testing (IE space travel) showed: Holy crap, it's round. And so are all other planets in the universe. And the sun. And the freaking MOON which we can see from earth. And.. pretty much all planetary bodies.
You guys: No it's not, you're all liars and there's a giant conpsiracy.

How is the Earth being round the extraordinary claim here?
And where's my freaking evidence?

You're correct, KB. The extraordinary claim now is that the Earth is flat. Since the far-and-away accepted, scientific confidence is that the Earth is a globe, it's now up to the "minority" opinion to present extraordinary evidence to back up their claim.

Furthermore, as the RE Primer documents, the collected and reviewed evidence strongly and definitively supports that current theory.

I encourage you to continue to challenge the conspiracy theory, but only to an extent. As far as I'm concerned and as the RE Primer recommends, there is not much use in debating the conspiracy as it's not falsifiable.

...for example..

..my "giant space squid conspiracy"...

..my entire "proof" could not be "you can't disprove it because there's a conspiracy!!!!"

..you need.. you know..

...actual proof.

What the hell are you talking about?  Do you have observational evidence of this giant space squid like we do of the flat earth?  

..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat

Could be a number of reasons:

That it appears flat, therefore must be flat.
They read Earth: Not a Globe.
They are looking to be different.

And possibly many more.

Quote from: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:08:37 PM

...for example..

..my "giant space squid conspiracy"...

..my entire "proof" could not be "you can't disprove it because there's a conspiracy!!!!"

..you need.. you know..

...actual proof.

What the hell are you talking about?  Do you have observational evidence of this giant space squid like we do of the flat earth? 

My friend "Jon Johnons" saw it at a secret government squid-watching base (which has a special telescope to see it). He says that the squid, although invisible, emits "alpha-beta-gamma waves" which propel objects away from itself and towards the Earth. To test this theory, just jump. You will be pushed downwards and away from the invisible space squid. Theory prooved! No photos required. No video required.

Quote from: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:06:46 PM

..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat

Could be a number of reasons:

That it appears flat, therefore must be flat.
They read Earth: Not a Globe.
They are looking to be different.

And possibly many more.

I suggest that FEers are generally liars looking to troll, confer Roundy and TomB, to have a life, confer dogplatter, or to bully people, confer TheEngineer.

Quote from: Roundy Loves Gayer on August 17, 2007, 02:11:29 PM

Quote from: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:08:37 PM

...for example..

..my "giant space squid conspiracy"...

..my entire "proof" could not be "you can't disprove it because there's a conspiracy!!!!"

..you need.. you know..

...actual proof.

What the hell are you talking about?  Do you have observational evidence of this giant space squid like we do of the flat earth? 

My friend "Jon Johnons" saw it at a secret government squid-watching base (which has a special telescope to see it). He says that the squid, although invisible, emits "alpha-beta-gamma waves" which propel objects away from itself and towards the Earth. To test this theory, just jump. You will be pushed downwards and away from the invisible space squid. Theory prooved! No photos required. No video required.

I can't help but think you were trying to apply Russell's Teapot to Flat Earth Theory.  Ain't gonna work.  The ideas are fundamentally different.

This isn't God we're talking about here.  Observing that the earth appears to be flat is something any of us can do.

Quote from: divito on August 17, 2007, 02:15:50 PM

Quote from: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:06:46 PM

..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat

Could be a number of reasons:

That it appears flat, therefore must be flat.
They read Earth: Not a Globe.
They are looking to be different.

And possibly many more.

I suggest that FEers are generally liars looking to troll, confer Roundy and TomB, to have a life, confer dogplatter, or to bully people, confer TheEngineer.

Roundy's not a FE'er, at least not as far as I can tell.

Yeah, I was refferencing the Teapot. Yes.. the Earth does appear to be flat. And water appears to be soft - but anyone who's jumped off a bridge will disagree. Air appears to be invisible. And.. countless, countless things appear to be different than they really are.

Due to the massive, massive evidence against FE theory, it now falls on the shoulders of the vast minority (you guys) to prove it.. instead of saying "prove YOUR theory, it's the crazy one!". Even if the Earth is flat, you guys are a tiny tiny tiny minority, so it's your job to prove it.

I noticed that not one person has actually replied with evidence yet. Simply trying to .. disprove.. my.. disproving. Or something.

Quote from: Gulliver on August 17, 2007, 02:19:33 PM

Quote from: divito on August 17, 2007, 02:15:50 PM

Quote from: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:06:46 PM

..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat

Could be a number of reasons:

That it appears flat, therefore must be flat.
They read Earth: Not a Globe.
They are looking to be different.

And possibly many more.

I suggest that FEers are generally liars looking to troll, confer Roundy and TomB, to have a life, confer dogplatter, or to bully people, confer TheEngineer.

Roundy's not a FE'er, at least not as far as I can tell.

Neither is TheEngineer, I use "confer" in the loosest meaning here. Sorry for the miscommunication. (Tip o' hat to SS)

BTW, Roundy changes his "allegiance" about weekly.

More like hourly. 

Earth Not a Globe

That's a book.

"Pics or it didn't happen"

"Pics or it didn't happen"

Besides that pictures can be faked, why would any space agency take pictures of the Earth if it was actually flat, and there actually was a conspiracy? Can you say, stupidity? If they are smart enough to orchestrate a conspiracy like this, they'd be smart enough to not produce evidence that can bring the whole thing crashing down.

lol.  We don't even allow photographic evidence on this website.  It's too easy to fake.

That book is the "proof" of a flat earth.

Pics can be faked.. but it's normally obvious. Fake is better than "none at all".

As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me. And there are just.. so many of them (hundreds of thousands?) that the chance of "f*cking one up* is extreeeemly high. But nope.. no one's noticed any huge errors in these "fake" photos yet. (not to mention the gigantic cost of creating countless fake photos and fake videos and paying off countless people.. etc)

As for flat earth photos: If there were ANY, I could make fun of how fake they are. But there aren't even any FAKE ones!!!

Pics can be faked.. but it's normally obvious. Fake is better than "none at all".

lol.  That's ridiculous.

lol.  We don't even allow photographic evidence on this website.  It's too easy to fake.

lol.. you don't allow photo evidence on a site where you're attempting to prove something which can only be proved with photos...

good luck with that :p

PS: I'm not reading a damn book. Any real theory can be proved in a few sentences / a paragraph / a few photos. You don't need a BOOK to prove something so BASIC AND SIMPLE.

PPS: No one has actually replied with evidence! Still! Not even trying.

As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me.

How do you know what a real Earth from space looks like?

Like this?

Quote from: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:36:58 PM

Pics can be faked.. but it's normally obvious. Fake is better than "none at all".

lol.  That's ridiculous.

I meant that if there was fake evidence, I could disprove it.

But currently.. there seems to be none. So there's nothing to disprove.

The attitude is just "I beleive it. Prove me wrong, vast majority of people. By the way all your evidence is fake."

Any real theory can be proved in a few sentences / a paragraph / a few photos. You don't need a BOOK to prove something so BASIC AND SIMPLE.

Ever hear of Martin Heidegger's Being and Time?

Quote from: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:36:58 PM

As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me.

How do you know what a real Earth from space looks like?

Like this?

(img)

Well.. not exactly like that.. that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program. More like this:

Quote from: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:40:27 PM

Any real theory can be proved in a few sentences / a paragraph / a few photos. You don't need a BOOK to prove something so BASIC AND SIMPLE.

Ever hear of Martin Heidegger's Being and Time?

...is it a photograph?

that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program.

True. It's part of NASA's Blue Marble Project.

Again though, how do you know what is real from space?