"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan

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KingBunny

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2007, 02:55:34 PM »
that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program.

True. It's part of NASA's Blue Marble Project.

Again though, how do you know what is real from space?

I have no idea. It could all be fake. I could be living in Cuba right now. Or the whole world could be Pangea. There's no way of knowing.

..but.. to actually BELEIVE any of these.. I would need to be convinced with evidence. It appears, so far, that FE'ers are NOT convinced with evidence.. they are convinced with.. I have no idea what.

The norm is still the norm until proved otherwise.
It is "True by default" until something proves it untrue.
(which is not the same as saying "it could be untrue and you wouldn't know")
Proving FE + Invisible Pink Unicrons simultaneously:
*There's no proof of FE(unicorns) because of a conspiracy(they're invisible).
*There's no proof of a conspiracy(invisibility) because it's a conspiracy(they're invisible!)

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socrates

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2007, 03:06:46 PM »
Any real theory can be proved in a few sentences / a paragraph / a few photos. You don't need a BOOK to prove something so BASIC AND SIMPLE.

Ever hear of Martin Heidegger's Being and Time?

...is it a photograph?

No it's a book about 600 pages long in which Heidegger tries to explain what it means "To Be."
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The only thing this thread proves to me (which is all I care about in my day), is that none of you will ever really prove anything to anyone, but yourselves.  ::)

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divito the truthist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2007, 03:13:51 PM »
There's no way of knowing.

Glad we got that cleared up.
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KingBunny

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2007, 03:16:41 PM »
There's no way of knowing.

Glad we got that cleared up.

Now all we need is actual evidence for FE..  :p
Proving FE + Invisible Pink Unicrons simultaneously:
*There's no proof of FE(unicorns) because of a conspiracy(they're invisible).
*There's no proof of a conspiracy(invisibility) because it's a conspiracy(they're invisible!)

*

divito the truthist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2007, 03:17:38 PM »
But there'd be no way of knowing if it was actually real evidence. Epistemology ftw.
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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2007, 03:21:09 PM »
As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me.

How do you know what a real Earth from space looks like?

Like this?


Well.. not exactly like that.. that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program. More like this:<pic>
Great picture.

A photograph becomes evidence when the chain of evidence is preserved and documented. In the case of the NASA photographs, the FEers must impugn those involved in taking and publishing the picture. They must do the same with Soviet, Russian, Japanese, ESA, Chinese, private enterprise, and privateer photographs. It's a tall order, isn't it?

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KingBunny

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2007, 03:24:21 PM »
But there'd be no way of knowing if it was actually real evidence. Epistemology ftw.

So what's the point in trying to prove anything? Or the existence of this forum?

For human discource to take place, you need some basic of level of "assumption of reality", IE we live in a real world (not the Matrix) and evidence is real if it looks real.. until proved otherwise.

You need a reason to prove something fake.. everything can't be "fake by default".
Proving FE + Invisible Pink Unicrons simultaneously:
*There's no proof of FE(unicorns) because of a conspiracy(they're invisible).
*There's no proof of a conspiracy(invisibility) because it's a conspiracy(they're invisible!)

?

KingBunny

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2007, 03:27:55 PM »
As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me.

How do you know what a real Earth from space looks like?

Like this?


Well.. not exactly like that.. that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program. More like this:<pic>
Great picture.

A photograph becomes evidence when the chain of evidence is preserved and documented. In the case of the NASA photographs, the FEers must impugn those involved in taking and publishing the picture. They must do the same with Soviet, Russian, Japanese, ESA, Chinese, private enterprise, and privateer photographs. It's a tall order, isn't it?

Well, in the case of the earth being round, it is presumed "so incredibly obvious" that no one tries to "prove it".

If I was stinking rich (soon enough) I doubt I would/will fly a plane around the world just to prove you guys wrong.. because .. there are so few of you. It would be like trying to prove that matter is made of atoms. No one cares.

If someone DOES care.. it falls on his or her shoulders to prove their own theory.. instead of asking the REST OF US to prove OURS..
Proving FE + Invisible Pink Unicrons simultaneously:
*There's no proof of FE(unicorns) because of a conspiracy(they're invisible).
*There's no proof of a conspiracy(invisibility) because it's a conspiracy(they're invisible!)

Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2007, 03:44:26 PM »
But there'd be no way of knowing if it was actually real evidence. Epistemology ftw.

So what's the point in trying to prove anything? Or the existence of this forum?

For human discource to take place, you need some basic of level of "assumption of reality", IE we live in a real world (not the Matrix) and evidence is real if it looks real.. until proved otherwise.

You need a reason to prove something fake.. everything can't be "fake by default".
This is just divito's usual lame attempt to expand the FE versus RE debate to some philosophical debate of unrelated topics. As we keep reminding him, he should take this topic to another forum. Please ignore anyone carrying on about "how do we prove anything?". Thanks.

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Agent_0042

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2007, 03:46:24 PM »
Well, in the case of the earth being round, it is presumed "so incredibly obvious" that no one tries to "prove it".
I know, I hate when that happens.

If I was stinking rich (soon enough) I doubt I would/will fly a plane around the world just to prove you guys wrong.. because .. there are so few of you.
Flying around the world wouldn't prove anything either way, so you might as well save your money, cause I doubt you'll be winning that lottery any time soon.

It would be like trying to prove that matter is made of atoms. No one cares.
Then why do you keep on posting?

If someone DOES care.. it falls on his or her shoulders to prove their own theory.. instead of asking the REST OF US to prove OURS..
What are you talking about? These are the Flat Earth Society forums, and you chose to come on here. The burden of proof is on you, pal.
Quote
Can the FAQ...
Yes, it can.


Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2007, 03:53:30 PM »
...
If someone DOES care.. it falls on his or her shoulders to prove their own theory.. instead of asking the REST OF US to prove OURS..
What are you talking about? These are the Flat Earth Society forums, and you chose to come on here. The burden of proof is on you, pal.

There's nothing so special about the name of the forum that overturns the scientific literature and the burden of proof that it places on FE. Besides, the RE Primer holds our concerted effort to document the proof of RE and to help anyone with an open mind to recreate experiments to see with their own eyes that the Earth is a globe.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2007, 04:04:09 PM »
All hail the glorious RE Primer!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2007, 04:07:45 PM »
KingBunny, I think you have made a great argument, but at the end of the day it boils down to 2 things.
1) This website is almost defiantly here just for trolls.
2) On the chance this is serious, I believe in science, therefore I believe performing experiments to gain evidence for a Theory which I will believe in until it is disproved with new evidence or it is improved with new evidence.
The point Iím making is that I am willing to believe in FE theory if I was given sufficient evidence, but I think all FE'ers will NEVER be willing to believe RE theory.
So it is pointless to argue.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2007, 04:09:36 PM »
That's about right.

Since you'll never convince anybody of anything you'll both go away now, right?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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KingBunny

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2007, 04:11:24 PM »
...
If someone DOES care.. it falls on his or her shoulders to prove their own theory.. instead of asking the REST OF US to prove OURS..
What are you talking about? These are the Flat Earth Society forums, and you chose to come on here. The burden of proof is on you, pal.

There's nothing so special about the name of the forum that overturns the scientific literature and the burden of proof that it places on FE. Besides, the RE Primer holds our concerted effort to document the proof of RE and to help anyone with an open mind to recreate experiments to see with their own eyes that the Earth is a globe.

The link is invalid.
I'm totally willing to do any sort of (reasonably easy) experiment as long as it's not retarded. As with most conspiracy theories, it would be "totally cool" if this one was real, I just haven't seen even a shred of evidence yet.
Proving FE + Invisible Pink Unicrons simultaneously:
*There's no proof of FE(unicorns) because of a conspiracy(they're invisible).
*There's no proof of a conspiracy(invisibility) because it's a conspiracy(they're invisible!)

?

KingBunny

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2007, 04:14:14 PM »
KingBunny, I think you have made a great argument, but at the end of the day it boils down to 2 things.
1) This website is almost defiantly here just for trolls.
2) On the chance this is serious, I believe in science, therefore I believe performing experiments to gain evidence for a Theory which I will believe in until it is disproved with new evidence or it is improved with new evidence.
The point Iím making is that I am willing to believe in FE theory if I was given sufficient evidence, but I think all FE'ers will NEVER be willing to believe RE theory.
So it is pointless to argue.


This is in the "debate" forum.. I assumed there would be someone to counter me with evidence. Apparently not. No fun. : (

But I get the point.

45% of the people on this site are trolls.
45% are just looking for tiny holes in RO to further convince themselves because there's no way they will change their minds.
10% are skeptics like me who could theoretically change their minds if someone gave them the tiniest shred of evidence.
Proving FE + Invisible Pink Unicrons simultaneously:
*There's no proof of FE(unicorns) because of a conspiracy(they're invisible).
*There's no proof of a conspiracy(invisibility) because it's a conspiracy(they're invisible!)

Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2007, 04:17:18 PM »
Pretty much...
I'm just going to wait x number of years untill space flight becomes REALLY comercial, then they are all f*cked.

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divito the truthist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2007, 04:19:51 PM »
So what's the point in trying to prove anything?

That's a great question. The answer is subjective and therefore would be of great variability.

Or the existence of this forum?

You'd have to ask the creator of it. Could be anything from trying to educate people about it, could be just a place to debate the possibility of it...or they could have just wanted attention.

You need a reason to prove something fake.. everything can't be "fake by default".

You don't need a reason to prove it fake; that implies intent. I could be examining a photograph without the intent of proving it fake, and discover inconsistencies that would prove it altered, or fake.

This is just divito's usual lame attempt to expand the FE versus RE debate to some philosophical debate of unrelated topics. As we keep reminding him, he should take this topic to another forum. Please ignore anyone carrying on about "how do we prove anything?". Thanks.

I'm not attempting anything. If you have an answer to the question, I think a lot of people would be interested. You know, the whole epistemology thing.

Just like a lot of people would be interested in the pictures of Dark Matter that you claimed existed. I like how you ignore something that you're wrong about, as if you're taking the high road or something. At least I face the accusations and can admit when I make a mistake.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2007, 04:21:54 PM »
Those percentages are way off.  There is at most one person who actually believes in a flat earth who posts here regularly.  The rest mostly just enjoy debate, even if it is about something totally mindless.  The ones who take the FE side are not trolls, nor are they believers, they are simply playing devil's advocate to spice things up.

If you want proof of something, there's always the Round Earth Society, or the RE Primer, both of which are projects of Gulliver's.  If you want enjoyable, often surprisingly stimulating debate on a topic that is not seriously questioned, this is the place to be.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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divito the truthist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2007, 04:24:03 PM »
Those percentages are way off.  There is at most one person who actually believes in a flat earth who posts here regularly.  The rest mostly just enjoy debate, even if it is about something totally mindless.  The ones who take the FE side are not trolls, nor are they believers, they are simply playing devil's advocate to spice things up.

If you want proof of something, there's always the Round Earth Society, or the RE Primer, both of which are projects of Gulliver's.  If you want enjoyable, often surprisingly stimulating debate on a topic that is not seriously questioned, this is the place to be.

QFT
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KingBunny

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2007, 04:25:17 PM »
"You don't need a reason to prove it fake; that implies intent. I could be examining a photograph without the intent of proving it fake, and discover inconsistencies that would prove it altered, or fake."

Exactly. If someone wants to point out how all of our countless space photos are fake, go nuts. Seeing a problem = a "reason" to say it is fake. But there seems to just be an "conspiracy by default" without evidence. Not to mention the absence of evidence FOR flat earth.

And I have no desire to plunge into the endless spiral of "the meaning of reality" right now. Again.. evidence first, result second.
Proving FE + Invisible Pink Unicrons simultaneously:
*There's no proof of FE(unicorns) because of a conspiracy(they're invisible).
*There's no proof of a conspiracy(invisibility) because it's a conspiracy(they're invisible!)

?

KingBunny

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2007, 04:27:34 PM »
Those percentages are way off.  There is at most one person who actually believes in a flat earth who posts here regularly.  The rest mostly just enjoy debate, even if it is about something totally mindless.  The ones who take the FE side are not trolls, nor are they believers, they are simply playing devil's advocate to spice things up.

If you want proof of something, there's always the Round Earth Society, or the RE Primer, both of which are projects of Gulliver's.  If you want enjoyable, often surprisingly stimulating debate on a topic that is not seriously questioned, this is the place to be.

Haha. I suspected as much. You seemed to be the only person who didn't go back-and-forth with opinions.. until now.

The only conspiracy is these forums ;)
Proving FE + Invisible Pink Unicrons simultaneously:
*There's no proof of FE(unicorns) because of a conspiracy(they're invisible).
*There's no proof of a conspiracy(invisibility) because it's a conspiracy(they're invisible!)

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2007, 04:30:32 PM »
Now you get it.  ;D
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2007, 04:32:31 PM »
HUZAH!!!
We can close the forums!
We are all in on it now so they are no longer needed.  ;)

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divito the truthist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2007, 04:55:21 PM »
Not to mention the absence of evidence FOR flat earth.

Do you have the means or will to travel into outer-space? Or to travel to the Ice Wall/Antarctica?
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KingBunny

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2007, 05:29:07 PM »
Not to mention the absence of evidence FOR flat earth.

Do you have the means or will to travel into outer-space? Or to travel to the Ice Wall/Antarctica?

Nope.
Neither do most people. Hence the absence of evidence. Sort of like the impossible-to-disprove space-squid.
I think you missed the point. ;)
Proving FE + Invisible Pink Unicrons simultaneously:
*There's no proof of FE(unicorns) because of a conspiracy(they're invisible).
*There's no proof of a conspiracy(invisibility) because it's a conspiracy(they're invisible!)

*

divito the truthist

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2007, 05:38:37 PM »
Nope.
Neither do most people. Hence the absence of evidence. Sort of like the impossible-to-disprove space-squid.
I think you missed the point. ;)

Well, you're using the lack of evidence as some justification for lack of believability. But you can clearly see why there is no evidence. Just doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2007, 05:52:17 PM »
Slightly off current topic, but I have just had an idea:
Maybe this entire forum is an experiment...
I think it proves that democracies do not work in every situation.  I mean here me are arguing over nothing.
It can be related to, say, the U.N arguing over whether to call an incident in a country "genocide" so that it warrants deploying troops there.  Everyone knows we SHOULD deploy troops, but itís so easy to just argue the toss and nothing is accomplished...

Just a thought I had anyway...

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Tom Bishop

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2007, 06:05:14 PM »
Quote
Neither do most people. Hence the absence of evidence. Sort of like the impossible-to-disprove space-squid.

In Earth Not a Globe Dr. Rowbotham conducts several experiments analyzing the convexity of long bodies of water.

Experiment 1
Experiment 2
Experiment 3
Experiment 4
Experiment 5
Experiment 6
Experiment 7
Experiment 8
Experiment 9
Experiment 10
Experiment 11
Experiment 12
Experiment 13
Experiment 14
Experiment 15

William Carpenter's astronomical anomaly book entitled "Theoretical astronomy examined and exposed" thoroughly details the fallacies and discrepancies of Round Earth astronomy, including detailed reports of explorers observing the Pole star at 23.5 degrees beyond the equator, and the misalignment of Sigma Ocantis.

Samuel Birley Rowbotham reports observing the North Star at 23.5 degrees beyond the equator. William Carpenter includes this well known discrepancy as proof number 71 in a book entitled "A hundred proofs the earth is not a globe."

    "71. The astronomers' theory of a globular Earth necessitates the conclusion that, if we travel south of the equator, to see the North Star is an impossibility. Yet it is well known this star has been seen by navigators when they have been more than 20 degrees south of the equator. This fact, like hundreds of other facts, puts the theory to shame, and gives us a proof that the Earth is not a globe."
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 06:12:36 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2007, 06:11:13 PM »
Additional evidence of a Flat Earth can be found in the book Zetetic Cosmogony: Or, conclusive evidence that the earth is not a revolving-rotating-globe, but a stationary plane circle by Thomas Winship. In this work Mr. Winship confirms for us several necessary attributes, such as the lines of latitude growing longer beyond the equator, the motion of the sun circling above the earth, the convexity of water, et cetera.

Further Flat Earth works by independent investigators include:

"The Earth is Flat" by Dr. Leo Ferarri
"Unpopular truth against popular error in reference to the shape of the earth" by Charles Morse
"The flat earth and her moulder" by Ossipoff Woofson
"The shape of the earth" by Authur V. White
"The form of the earth" by Andrew D. White
"A view from the edge; on the necessity of the flat earth" by John P. Sisk
"The true shape of the earth" by Chester M. Shippey
"Terra firma" by David W. Scott
"He knew earth is round, but his proof fell flat" by Robert J. Schadewald
"Zetetic Astronomy" by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham
"The rectangular earth" by Cyrus N. Ray
"The earth a plane" by John E. Quinlan
"Proofs (so-called) of the world's rotundity, examined in the light of facts and common sense" by the London Zetetic Society
"The earth-flattener's challenge" by Richard Proctor
"The flat earth" by Charles W. Jones
"The book of light" by Gilbert Johnson
"The persistently flat earth" by Stephen J. Gould
"Earth not a globe: scientifically, geometrically, philosophically demonstrated" by Henry J. Goudey
"Does the earth rotate?" by William Edgell
"A reparation: universal gravitation a universal fake" by Charles S. Deford
"The terrestrial plane" by Frederick H. Cook
"England's modern flatearthists" by Oswell Blakeston
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 06:15:55 PM by Tom Bishop »