Earths curve

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sokarul

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2007, 09:53:01 AM »
You can from a strattelite.
hahahahahaha

Now I know why you spam instead of post in legitimate topics.   
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: Earths curve
« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2007, 11:26:41 AM »
The FE is a disk.  I know because it is my purpose to know.

Yeah there is no way this site isn't a joke.

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Just because sustained space flight is not possible does not mean you can't get up there.

So what makes the flat Earth pictures real (which by the way I haven't seen any), but the round Earth pictures fake?...Nevermind. Don't even bother answering that question.

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ash bash

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2007, 12:09:44 PM »
pictures are not evidence on this forum. how convenient that we can get pics of a RE but you cant get pics of a FE. hmm......
i believe the world is an oblate spheroid. anything i say that contradicts this is purely for the sake of argument.

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narcberry

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2007, 12:12:33 PM »
pictures are not evidence on this forum. how convenient that we can get pics of a RE but you cant get pics of a FE. hmm......

Just because it is easier to be handed false knowledge doesn't mean it's true.

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ash bash

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2007, 12:13:50 PM »
show me a photo of a FE then
i believe the world is an oblate spheroid. anything i say that contradicts this is purely for the sake of argument.

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narcberry

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2007, 12:23:15 PM »
show me a photo of a FE then

you: I believe anything people tell me
me: So you believe whatever knowledge is easiest to find?
you: yes


Okay, since the point is missed on you. Here is one of millions of photographs of a flat earth.


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Link2086

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2007, 12:26:44 PM »
pictures are not evidence on this forum. how convenient that we can get pics of a RE but you cant get pics of a FE. hmm......

Just because it is easier to be handed false knowledge doesn't mean it's true.

Maybe it's just me, but I would think that he could say the same to you. It's a hell of a lot easier to say "everything's just a conspiracy so you can't prove anything," and that certainly doesn't make it true.

Nearly every "theory" on this site is horribly inaccurate and is the result of a burden of proof fallacy--A is to be preferred to B because "B cannot be proven" when the burden of proof is laid on view B to an impossibly heavy level, and in particular to a level under which A could not be proven either.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2007, 12:32:47 PM »
Nearly every "theory" on this site is horribly inaccurate and is the result of a burden of proof fallacy--A is to be preferred to B because "B cannot be proven" when the burden of proof is laid on view B to an impossibly heavy level, and in particular to a level under which A could not be proven either.

Burden of proof is not a fallacy. Changing or shifting the burden of proof is a fallacy. FET hasn't done that. FET starts with a belief and tries to fill in the holes to make it true.

RE, however, consistently uses fallacies. Appeal to authority and proof by assertion being the most common.
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Gulliver

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2007, 12:36:57 PM »
show me a photo of a FE then

you: I believe anything people tell me
me: So you believe whatever knowledge is easiest to find?
you: yes


Okay, since the point is missed on you. Here is one of millions of photographs of a flat earth.

...
No. That's not a photographic evidence of a flat earth.

No. That the evidence for RE is overwhelming, readily available, and easily reproduced for yourself does not favor FE--in the least. Good stalking horse though.

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narcberry

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #99 on: September 17, 2007, 12:38:10 PM »
Burden of proof is not a fallacy. Changing or shifting the burden of proof is a fallacy. FET hasn't done that. FET starts with a belief and tries to fill in the holes to make it true.

RE, however, consistently uses fallacies. Appeal to authority and proof by assertion being the most common.

You forgot the  ::). It wins all and RE'ers have no dignity about limiting its usage.

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Gulliver

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2007, 12:41:18 PM »
Nearly every "theory" on this site is horribly inaccurate and is the result of a burden of proof fallacy--A is to be preferred to B because "B cannot be proven" when the burden of proof is laid on view B to an impossibly heavy level, and in particular to a level under which A could not be proven either.

Burden of proof is not a fallacy. Changing or shifting the burden of proof is a fallacy. FET hasn't done that. FET starts with a belief and tries to fill in the holes to make it true.

RE, however, consistently uses fallacies. Appeal to authority and proof by assertion being the most common.
I challenge you to show any quote where an REer committed an appeal to authority fallacy. Let's agree that the farther back in time you have to go, the less convincing your challenge to REers is.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #101 on: September 17, 2007, 12:44:35 PM »
I challenge you to show any quote where an REer committed an appeal to authority fallacy. Let's agree that the farther back in time you have to go, the less convincing your challenge to REers is.

It's more so apparent with newcomers than with the regular REers. As you say, I'd have to go back in time for those. Appeals to authority are far less common among REers that have been here for awhile.
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Link2086

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #102 on: September 17, 2007, 12:46:36 PM »
Oh, and just FYI?
There's something called the "balance of probabilities." Ever heard of it? It's the lowest level of proof required, which is above 50% chance of it being true. The standard is met if the proposition is more likely to be true than not true.

While it's literally impossible to deny anything if you care to argue about it, the fact is that we don't rely on methods like that--we rely on probability. So it's certainly possible that gravity doesn't exist, the earth is flat, and any number of other theories are true. However, when you throw Occam's Razor into the mix (the simplest solution is generally the best one), it becomes obvious that the explanation given by science--which has been repeatedly verified by sources the world over--is far more compatible with the Razor than any other explanation. Sure, it's possible that every government in the world has been involved in a massive conspiracy for hundreds upon hundreds of years. It's just not very likely at all.

Furthermore, the "Round Earth Theorists" have provided far more evidence to support their claims than any "Flat Earth Theorist" has. Burden of proof means that if you're going to suggest a theory or state a claim, you must provide concrete evidence to support it. Merely claiming "well you can't disprove it" is not sufficient, for obvious reasons. Case A is not proven simply because Case 'Not A' cannot be proven. "A is true because Not A is false" simply doesn't cut it. The sky is green because it is not red. Ludicrous, correct? However, that's the same type of logic being used in "The Earth is flat because you can't definitively prove it is round."

And once again, Occam's Razor:

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem,

"enteties should not be multiplied beyond necessity."

When competing theories are equal in other respects, the Razor says to select the theory that relies on the fewest assumptions and fewest postulates. A global conspiracy and thousands of people guarding a gigantic ice wall certainly relies on far more assumptions and postulates than "the Earth is round; here are pictures and data collected from experiments and observational studies to support this claim."

And finally, the less reasonable a statement seems, the more proof it requires. Considering the fact that several "Flat Earth Theorists" have admitted that they believe that the moon and other celestial bodies are indeed round, I find it odd that one planet would be indescribably flat and rely on completely different mechanical laws and properties than its neighbors. That is certainly less reasonable than the Earth being similar to neighboring celestial bodies--and therefore, requires a much higher level of proof. A fantastic example of this is cold fusion. It is currently not accepted as possible, simply because its veracity would call into conflict many other tested and accepted theories of nuclear physics.

:)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 12:48:16 PM by Link2086 »

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Gulliver

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #103 on: September 17, 2007, 12:47:22 PM »
I challenge you to show any quote where an REer committed an appeal to authority fallacy. Let's agree that the farther back in time you have to go, the less convincing your challenge to REers is.

It's more so apparent with newcomers than with the regular REers. As you say, I'd have to go back in time for those. Appeals to authority are far less common among REers that have been here for awhile.
So you can't answer the challenge then? Thought so.

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narcberry

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #104 on: September 17, 2007, 12:47:51 PM »
Nearly every "theory" on this site is horribly inaccurate and is the result of a burden of proof fallacy--A is to be preferred to B because "B cannot be proven" when the burden of proof is laid on view B to an impossibly heavy level, and in particular to a level under which A could not be proven either.

Burden of proof is not a fallacy. Changing or shifting the burden of proof is a fallacy. FET hasn't done that. FET starts with a belief and tries to fill in the holes to make it true.

RE, however, consistently uses fallacies. Appeal to authority and proof by assertion being the most common.
I challenge you to show any quote where an REer committed an appeal to authority fallacy. Let's agree that the farther back in time you have to go, the less convincing your challenge to REers is.



I'll do it, took me no time to find one.
If indeed exist this so called 'ice wall', is there any proof ? Picture ,people who touched it or smtg ? How could they hide such thing from 6 billion people ?

Provided the earth is flat ,how come nobody dug through it ?



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narcberry

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #105 on: September 17, 2007, 12:49:38 PM »
Oh, and just FYI?
There's something called the "balance of probabilities." Ever heard of it? It's the lowest level of proof required, which is above 50% chance of it being true. The standard is met if the proposition is more likely to be true than not true.

While it's literally impossible to deny anything if you care to argue about it, the fact is that we don't rely on methods like that--we rely on probability. So it's certainly possible that gravity doesn't exist, the earth is flat, and any number of other theories are true. However, when you throw Occam's Razor into the mix (the simplest solution is generally the best one), it becomes obvious that the explanation given by science--which has been repeatedly verified by sources the world over--is far more compatible with the Razor than any other explanation. Sure, it's possible that every government in the world has been involved in a massive conspiracy for hundreds upon hundreds of years. It's just not very likely at all.

Furthermore, the "Round Earth Theorists" have provided far more evidence to support their claims than any "Flat Earth Theorist" has. Burden of proof means that if you're going to suggest a theory or state a claim, you must provide concrete evidence to support it. Merely claiming "well you can't disprove it" is not sufficient, for obvious reasons. Case A is not proven simply because Case 'Not A' cannot be proven. "A is true because Not A is false" simply doesn't cut it. The sky is green because it is not red. Ludicrous, correct? However, that's the same type of logic being used in "The Earth is flat because you can't definitively prove it is round."

And once again, Occam's Razor:

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem,

"enteties should not be multiplied beyond necessity."

When competing theories are equal in other respects, the Razor says to select the theory that relies on the fewest assumptions and fewest postulates. A global conspiracy and thousands of people guarding a gigantic ice wall certainly relies on far more assumptions and postulates than "the Earth is round; here are pictures and data collected from experiments and observational studies to support this claim."

And finally, the less reasonable a statement seems, the more proof it requires. Considering the fact that several "Flat Earth Theorists" have admitted that they believe that the moon and other celestial bodies are indeed round, I find it odd that one planet would be indescribably flat and rely on completely different mechanical laws and properties than its neighbors. That is certainly less reasonable than the Earth being similar to neighboring celestial bodies--and therefore, requires a much higher level of proof. A fantastic example of this is cold fusion. It is currently not accepted as possible, simply because its veracity would call into conflict many other tested and accepted theories of nuclear physics.

:)


Perhaps you can share a quantifiable measurement of probability that the earth is round or flat?

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #106 on: September 17, 2007, 12:51:20 PM »
Oh, and just FYI?
There's something called the "balance of probabilities." Ever heard of it? It's the lowest level of proof required, which is above 50% chance of it being true. The standard is met if the proposition is more likely to be true than not true.

People bring up Occam all the time. We aren't arguing probabilities here though, so it's irrelevant.

So you can't answer the challenge then? Thought so.

Oh, I definitely can. If you want me to pull out every appeal from some random spammer, I could, but I figured you'd know that they exist instead of making me do work to prove something that's already apparent.
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Link2086

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #107 on: September 17, 2007, 12:52:35 PM »

I'll do it, took me no time to find one.
If indeed exist this so called 'ice wall', is there any proof ? Picture ,people who touched it or smtg ? How could they hide such thing from 6 billion people ?

Provided the earth is flat ,how come nobody dug through it ?


I think you're confused.
There is no fallacy involved in simply arguing that the assertion made by an authority is true. The fallacy only comes into play when one claims that the authority's assertion is true because the authority is infallible.

Furthermore, how is that regarding an authority's assertion to begin with? There is no claim that the government is telling the truth because they are right or in a position of authority. The poster is simply questioning the veracity of the claim that the government has lied to six billion people successfully for hundreds of years.  :)

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Gulliver

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #108 on: September 17, 2007, 12:53:59 PM »
Nearly every "theory" on this site is horribly inaccurate and is the result of a burden of proof fallacy--A is to be preferred to B because "B cannot be proven" when the burden of proof is laid on view B to an impossibly heavy level, and in particular to a level under which A could not be proven either.

Burden of proof is not a fallacy. Changing or shifting the burden of proof is a fallacy. FET hasn't done that. FET starts with a belief and tries to fill in the holes to make it true.

RE, however, consistently uses fallacies. Appeal to authority and proof by assertion being the most common.
I challenge you to show any quote where an REer committed an appeal to authority fallacy. Let's agree that the farther back in time you have to go, the less convincing your challenge to REers is.



I'll do it, took me no time to find one.
If indeed exist this so called 'ice wall', is there any proof ? Picture ,people who touched it or smtg ? How could they hide such thing from 6 billion people ?

Provided the earth is flat ,how come nobody dug through it ?


Wrong. There's no appeal to authority fallacy in that quote. You fail.

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Link2086

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #109 on: September 17, 2007, 01:00:45 PM »
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Perhaps you can share a quantifiable measurement of probability that the earth is round or flat?

Excuse me? Did you bother reading my previous post, or did you just skip to the "reply" button once you saw the word "probability"? The burden of proof does not fall on me, as I am not presenting a claim contrary to accepted belief and scientific fact. It's your job to present proof that the earth is flat, not my job to prove that it is indeed round. Do a little more reading before you come back with a snide remark that doesn't fit the situation. :)

Quote
People bring up Occam all the time. We aren't arguing probabilities here though, so it's irrelevant.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware we weren't arguing probabilities. In that case, I present my completely logical theory: The Earth is actually shaped like a giant kumquat.
Prove me wrong. I'll give you half an hour. At 4:30PM Eastern, 3:30 Central, 2:30 Mountain, and 1:30 Pacific time, I expect to be disproved, or I'll take that as a concession that we are in fact arguing probabilities and I was correct. :)

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Link2086

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #110 on: September 17, 2007, 01:32:25 PM »
Guess that means we were arguing probability after all. :)

Re: Earths curve
« Reply #111 on: September 17, 2007, 01:40:24 PM »
These guys are ninjas. They are dodging and evading everything.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #112 on: September 17, 2007, 01:53:37 PM »
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware we weren't arguing probabilities.

I know.

The Earth is actually shaped like a giant kumquat.

Could be.

Probabilistically, based on the information we have, it's more probable that the Earth is spherical. But like I said, we aren't arguing that.
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Link2086

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #113 on: September 17, 2007, 02:00:41 PM »
The Earth is actually shaped like a giant kumquat.

Could be.

Probabilistically, based on the information we have, it's more probable that the Earth is spherical. But like I said, we aren't arguing that.

No, you're wrong. The Earth is shaped like a kumquat. The information you have has been forged by the Spanish Inquisition. Information before the Inquisition was wiped out and replaced with the Inquisition's material, which is currently accepted by Flat Earth Theorists as true. However, it's all a conspiracy.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #114 on: September 17, 2007, 02:06:34 PM »
The Earth is shaped like a kumquat. The information you have has been forged by the Spanish Inquisition. Information before the Inquisition was wiped out and replaced with the Inquisition's material, which is currently accepted by Flat Earth Theorists as true. However, it's all a conspiracy.

Like I said, could be.
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Link2086

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #115 on: September 17, 2007, 02:10:28 PM »
The Earth is shaped like a kumquat. The information you have has been forged by the Spanish Inquisition. Information before the Inquisition was wiped out and replaced with the Inquisition's material, which is currently accepted by Flat Earth Theorists as true. However, it's all a conspiracy.

Like I said, could be.

"Could be" implies that it is possible. And that means it's probable. But we're not discussing probability! :o

Also, no. Not "could be," but "is." Clearly you've been deluded by the Inquisition into the false belief that the Earth could possibly be any other shape.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #116 on: September 17, 2007, 02:13:20 PM »
"Could be" implies that it is possible. And that means it's probable. But we're not discussing probability! :o

ROFL. Possibility does not equate to probability.
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narcberry

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #117 on: September 17, 2007, 02:15:36 PM »
Woot, everyone is probably going to empty their bank accounts and send their virgin daughters to my home holding their life savings.

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Link2086

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #118 on: September 17, 2007, 02:32:24 PM »
"Could be" implies that it is possible. And that means it's probable. But we're not discussing probability! :o

ROFL. Possibility does not equate to probability.

Possible means that a probability exists. :)

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #119 on: September 17, 2007, 02:37:13 PM »
Something that is probable, means that it's percentage is high. You said because it's possible, it's probable. That is not true.
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