Atheist Politicians

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beast

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2007, 07:26:07 PM »

Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2007, 07:31:03 PM »
Aside atheist politicians, most people don't realize that various scientists considered by many to believe in a god were actually atheist:
  • Albert Einstein (above all)
  • Enrico Fermi
  • Niels Bohr
  • Werner Heisenberg
  • Paul Dirac
  • Wolfgang Pauli
  • Ashoke Sen
  • Edward Witten
  • James Clerk Maxwell
  • Steven Hawking
  • Max Planck
  • Prince Louis-Victor Pierre Raymond de Broglie
  • Erwin Schrödinger
  • Hideki Yukawa
  • Sheldon Lee Glashow
  • Abdus Salam
  • Steven Weinberg
  • Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
To name only a few offhand.

Do you do physics? lol...

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divito the truthist

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2007, 09:11:14 PM »
We were on politicians, and someone brought up a list, so the topic was essentially ready to move on to something similar. Einstein seems to have been the route. If yu'ld prefer, lets talk about the credibility of Atheist politicians.

Ok, Americans, would you vote for an Atheist politician, in the event that you didn't particularly prefer either candidate's policies?

(I ask Americans, since the religion issue is less extreme here in Britain and down under).

It's also less apparent in Canada as well during the elections and such. However, depending on their platform, I'd take an atheist over someone in an organized religion any day. That's just me though.
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beast

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2007, 05:31:08 AM »
So one of my favourite politicians (Bob Brown, Australian Greens) was voted as the second most likely politician to go to Heaven recently.  His response; (paraphrase) "I'm flattered, but I'm an atheist."

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Rudd Master 3000

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2007, 05:41:46 AM »
That's hilarious - who did the poll?

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2007, 08:18:55 AM »

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2007, 08:44:31 AM »
We were on politicians, and someone brought up a list, so the topic was essentially ready to move on to something similar. Einstein seems to have been the route. If yu'ld prefer, lets talk about the credibility of Atheist politicians.

Ok, Americans, would you vote for an Atheist politician, in the event that you didn't particularly prefer either candidate's policies?

(I ask Americans, since the religion issue is less extreme here in Britain and down under).

I have probably already voted for an atheist politician.  I'd prefer the question not be brought up in politics, one way or the other.  I never say the so-called Pledge of Allegiance because of the phrase "Under God"  but then I probably wouldn't say it even if they took that out.

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wgzero

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2007, 08:59:04 AM »
We were on politicians, and someone brought up a list, so the topic was essentially ready to move on to something similar. Einstein seems to have been the route. If yu'ld prefer, lets talk about the credibility of Atheist politicians.

Ok, Americans, would you vote for an Atheist politician, in the event that you didn't particularly prefer either candidate's policies?

(I ask Americans, since the religion issue is less extreme here in Britain and down under).

I have probably already voted for an atheist politician.  I'd prefer the question not be brought up in politics, one way or the other.  I never say the so-called Pledge of Allegiance because of the phrase "Under God"  but then I probably wouldn't say it even if they took that out.
Ha! Them take out "Under God". With Bush as head, his final act as president will probably be to add a few choice phrases, such as "Death to Islam!", or maybe "Nucular", or how about his own "Hail Jes's" with a nice southern twang.

And unlike myself, I'm sad to say that nearly every american would choose a theist over an atheist, especially if the theist were their own religion.

In addition, many of the more ignorant 'southern folk' consider Buddhism a theistic religion. But then again, I'm pretty sure the Deep South hasn't even discovered electricity yet.
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2007, 09:17:48 AM »
Ha! Them take out "Under God". With Bush as head, his final act as president will probably be to add a few choice phrases, such as "Death to Islam!", or maybe "Nucular", or how about his own "Hail Jes's" with a nice southern twang.

In addition, many of the more ignorant 'southern folk' consider Buddhism a theistic religion. But then again, I'm pretty sure the Deep South hasn't even discovered electricity yet.

George is from Connecticut.

And we haven't discovered electricity yet.  I use a series of 'possum treadmills to power this computer but they do get angry about it.  I did have a Buddhist as a five-year house guest one time and I would describe her as a "spiritualist."  But my being so ignorant, I may have gotten that wrong.  Yep, my little Southern town has 900 people and we're all ignorant.

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wgzero

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2007, 09:51:32 AM »
Bush lived in Texas enough for it to wear off onto him (and I believe he was a conservative religious nutcase before even going down there).

And as for the possum treadmills, 'fraid that's how it goes down there, try not to broadcast it and depress the rest of us lol. Which state are you in anyways, as my statement is a generalization of the opinions of the deep south (that means if you're in Tennessee, keep quiet, and if you are in the deep south (whether bible thumper or secularist minority), why the hell are you defending it, as you know exactly how backward some towns in mississippi/alabama/texas/louisiana(not New Orleans though, or Baton Rough to an extent)/kansas/oaklahoma/arkansas/[that general area] are. And by the way, I was siding with you.
I'm thinking about signing my first name as lexluther instead of alex...


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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2007, 09:59:01 AM »
I would not say that Einstein was an atheist, not a weak or strong atheist. His comments were often contradictory, it is true had has said and written that he did not believe in a personal God. But often in his writings he would hint at a belief of some god, or at least a supernatural entity. He also " asserted that the Jewish scriptures, Jesus, Gautama Buddha and other religious figures were important guides for the ethical advancement of humanity.
" His belief have been described by some as resembling that of a pantheist. Here are some quotes of his that I found particularly interesting. (These are only a few of the many things he wrote on science and religion.)

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish"

"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom. "

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. "


"I have found no better expression than "religious" for confidence in the rational nature of reality, insofar as it is accessible to human reason. Whenever this feeling is absent, science degenerates into uninspired empiricism."


"Whatever there is of God and goodness in the universe, it must work itself out and express itself through us. We cannot stand aside and let God do it"


"As a child, I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene. "

"How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it. "

"God may be subtle, but he isn't plain mean."

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

"Nobody, certainly, will deny that the idea of the existence of an omnipotent, just, and omnibeneficent personal God is able to accord man solace, help, and guidance; also, by virtue of its simplicity it is accessible to the most undeveloped mind. But, on the other hand, there are decisive weaknesses attached to this idea in itself, which have been painfully felt since the beginning of history."

"Science not only purifies the religious impulse of the dross of its anthropomorphism but also contributes to a religious spiritualization of our understanding of life."

"Does there truly exist an insuperable contradiction between religion and science? Can religion be superseded by science? The answers to these questions have, for centuries, given rise to considerable dispute and, indeed, bitter fighting. Yet, in my own mind there can be no doubt that in both cases a dispassionate consideration can only lead to a negative answer."

"If I were not a Jew, I would be a Quaker."

There is also this quote,

" I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. "

Recorded by  G. S. Viereck , there have been disputes as to the accuracy of this quotation, though.



« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 10:01:30 AM by [][][] »
The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us. -Some Frenchy

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2007, 10:06:32 AM »
Er, Buddhism is a theistic religion. It has an Ultimate Truth, which classifies it in the same boat as religions with deities.

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2007, 10:16:54 AM »
Bush lived in Texas enough for it to wear off onto him (and I believe he was a conservative religious nutcase before even going down there).

And as for the possum treadmills, 'fraid that's how it goes down there, try not to broadcast it and depress the rest of us lol. Which state are you in anyways, as my statement is a generalization of the opinions of the deep south (that means if you're in Tennessee, keep quiet, and if you are in the deep south (whether bible thumper or secularist minority), why the hell are you defending it, as you know exactly how backward some towns in mississippi/alabama/texas/louisiana(not New Orleans though, or Baton Rough to an extent)/kansas/oaklahoma/arkansas/[that general area] are. And by the way, I was siding with you.

Bush lived in West Texas which I don't think of as the deep South.  I don't know of this Baton Rough?

I'm presently sitting barefoot in Georgia.  South Georgia.  Think I'll put up some muscadine jelly this afternoon and pull the pea vines out of the vegetable garden as they're getting a little "shucky."  The collards are doing right poorly also as they need a good rain.  Yes, we are backward but we eat well.  

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Midnight

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2007, 12:08:24 PM »
Einstein was Jewish, but was unorthodox. Atheism would have no real purpose for him.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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wgzero

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2007, 08:09:19 PM »
Bush lived in Texas enough for it to wear off onto him (and I believe he was a conservative religious nutcase before even going down there).

And as for the possum treadmills, 'fraid that's how it goes down there, try not to broadcast it and depress the rest of us lol. Which state are you in anyways, as my statement is a generalization of the opinions of the deep south (that means if you're in Tennessee, keep quiet, and if you are in the deep south (whether bible thumper or secularist minority), why the hell are you defending it, as you know exactly how backward some towns in mississippi/alabama/texas/louisiana(not New Orleans though, or Baton Rough to an extent)/kansas/oaklahoma/arkansas/[that general area] are. And by the way, I was siding with you.

Bush lived in West Texas which I don't think of as the deep South.  I don't know of this Baton Rough?

I'm presently sitting barefoot in Georgia.  South Georgia.  Think I'll put up some muscadine jelly this afternoon and pull the pea vines out of the vegetable garden as they're getting a little "shucky."  The collards are doing right poorly also as they need a good rain.  Yes, we are backward but we eat well. 
Dammit, you know I mean Rouge.

And don't get me started on Georgia. No, Georgia is not part of the Deep South, though it is borderline. However, once I went to a baseball game in Georgia with some friends. The man sitting next to me made this comment, and I quote "Look at that nigga run, like he was runnin' with a microwave!". Most people sitting around him seemed to have a similar expression on their face. No, I'm not saying all people in Georgia are racist/(ignorant, as I said), but I'm afraid you are in the minority.
I'm thinking about signing my first name as lexluther instead of alex...


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Midnight

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2007, 08:13:15 PM »
And as for the possum treadmills, 'fraid that's how it goes down there, try not to broadcast it and depress the rest of us lol. Which state are you in anyways, as my statement is a generalization of the opinions of the deep south (that means if you're in Tennessee, keep quiet, and if you are in the deep south (whether bible thumper or secularist minority), why the hell are you defending it, as you know exactly how backward some towns in mississippi/alabama/texas/louisiana(not New Orleans though, or Baton Rough to an extent)/kansas/oaklahoma/arkansas/[that general area] are. And by the way, I was siding with you.

That is the most misanthropic, underhanded, self-deluded, completely IDIOTIC post I have ever seen on this site. I mean, truly, that was a work of ART, man.  ::)
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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wgzero

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2007, 08:16:22 PM »
And to The Bright Theist:

Nowhere have you given any evidence where he affirmed his belief in a god; as for that last quote, it has the same fallacious origins as the "Einstein v.s. University Professor" story. If you want more evidence, look at the attitude of his closest peers. Once as a joke, in conversation with Wolfgang Pauli and Paul Dirac, he said "Well, we all know that Dirac has his own religion, and its first commandment is 'There is no god, and Dirac is his prophet'."
I'm thinking about signing my first name as lexluther instead of alex...


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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2007, 08:30:34 PM »
And to The Bright Theist:

Nowhere have you given any evidence where he affirmed his belief in a god; as for that last quote, it has the same fallacious origins as the "Einstein v.s. University Professor" story. If you want more evidence, look at the attitude of his closest peers. Once as a joke, in conversation with Wolfgang Pauli and Paul Dirac, he said "Well, we all know that Dirac has his own religion, and its first commandment is 'There is no god, and Dirac is his prophet'."

Ah of course, let take jokes between friends as serious evidence and ignore all of those annoying quotes that prove Einstein's Jewery.
The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us. -Some Frenchy

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wgzero

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2007, 08:33:35 PM »
And all of you have misinterpreted my first post on Bush /  religious people / the South. I was merely stating that many ignorant people bring religion where it doesn't belong (i.e. politics), particularly those in what I identified as the deep south; You don't see people in the New York, or Illinois, or Ohio school boards mandatorily placing "Evolution, its just a theory" stickers all over their textbooks, or teaching Creationism alongside Evolution.

And yes, although Buddhism does have an 'Ultimate Truth', it specifically does not have a deity, although Buddhists do believe in a life force. That list I gave would need a bit of modification before Buddhism could be included.

What does it say?
They discovered how to cure you of yourself, fuck bag.
Yes, my posts are completely useless, although I have to agree, narcberry is a fuck bag (and I'm very curious as to why he hasn't shown up on this thread yet).

I'm thinking about signing my first name as lexluther instead of alex...


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Midnight

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2007, 08:34:04 PM »
Einstein was Jewish, but was unorthodox. Atheism would have no real purpose for him.

Zero, read books on the man's life, then try your wit on again. Until then, you have zero credibility.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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wgzero

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2007, 08:45:24 PM »
I have read "Albert Einstein: the Human Side", which is where many of these quotes everyone is listing are sourced to (from there, they go to his individual letters he wrote, and his speeches / conversations).

I also offer two, more well known quotes:

"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." -- Albert Einstein, in a letter to Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein, 1929.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." -- Albert Einstein, in a letter to M. Berkowitz, 1950.
I'm thinking about signing my first name as lexluther instead of alex...


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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2007, 10:52:05 AM »
"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." -- Albert Einstein, in a letter to Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein, 1929.

From the Wikipedia article on Spinoza:

Quote
In 1785, Friedrich Heinrich Jacobi published a condemnation of Spinoza's pantheism, after Lessing was thought to have confessed on his deathbed to being a "Spinozist", which was the equivalent in his time of being called an atheist. Jacobi claimed that Spinoza's doctrine was pure materialism, because all Nature and God are said to be nothing but extended substance. This, for Jacobi, was the result of Enlightenment rationalism and it would finally end in absolute atheism. Moses Mendelssohn disagreed with Jacobi, saying that there is no actual difference between theism and pantheism. The entire issue became a major intellectual and religious concern for European civilization at the time, which Immanuel Kant rejected, as he thought that attempts to conceive of transcendent reality would lead to antinomies in thought.

The attraction of Spinoza's philosophy to late eighteenth-century Europeans was that it provided an alternative to materialism, atheism, and deism. Three of Spinoza's ideas strongly appealed to them:

the unity of all that exists;
the regularity of all that happens; and
the identity of spirit and nature.
Spinoza's "God or Nature" provided a living, natural God, in contrast to the Newtonian mechanical "First Cause" or the dead mechanism of the French "Man Machine."

Einstein still believed in God, just not one that had an influence on modern affairs.  This does not make him an atheist.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." -- Albert Einstein, in a letter to M. Berkowitz, 1950.

Here it seems he's once again affirming a belief in God, just not a belief in God in the Judeo-Christian sense, that of "law-giver".  He still believed in the concept of God as Creator.  He saw God in the orderliness of the cosmos, mathematics, and science that he spent his entire life studying.  You're taking the opening statement here - "My position concerning God is that of an agnostic" - out of context.  He's made his religious views clear in other quotes.

An atheist doesn't believe in a God of any kind.  He believes that the natural world just is and that all coincidence is just that - coincidence.  This was not Einstein's position.  As much as atheists would love to claim Einstein as their own - and they have tried - he clearly wasn't.

Pantheists believe that God can be found in everything - not that there is no God.  It is not atheism.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 10:55:01 AM by Roundy the Bright »
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2007, 12:27:19 PM »
Why are we still debating wheher Einstein was an Atheist? We know he was a theist.

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Midnight

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2007, 04:56:32 PM »
I have read "Albert Einstein: the Human Side", which is where many of these quotes everyone is listing are sourced to (from there, they go to his individual letters he wrote, and his speeches / conversations).

I also offer two, more well known quotes:

"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." -- Albert Einstein, in a letter to Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein, 1929.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." -- Albert Einstein, in a letter to M. Berkowitz, 1950.

Yes, but the man was Jewish by birth. His beliefs were a mish mash of your listed items. Still Jewish, diluted or not.  :-*
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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wgzero

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2007, 08:45:16 PM »
I have read "Albert Einstein: the Human Side", which is where many of these quotes everyone is listing are sourced to (from there, they go to his individual letters he wrote, and his speeches / conversations).

I also offer two, more well known quotes:

"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." -- Albert Einstein, in a letter to Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein, 1929.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." -- Albert Einstein, in a letter to M. Berkowitz, 1950.

Yes, but the man was Jewish by birth. His beliefs were a mish mash of your listed items. Still Jewish, diluted or not.  :-*
Yes, he identified himself as Jewish, and observed Judaic customs, as many non-Jewish people do. I said himself that he did these in honoring his ethnicity.

Roundy the Bright:
Read Wikipedia's article on Spinoza's God, i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_pantheism (for the teeming millions about to post, calling me an idiot and claiming that Einstein believed in Spinoza's God, not Naturalistic Pantheism, please read Wikipedia's article on Pantheism, and kiss my ass). This article might give you an idea as to why Einstein stating his belief in Spinoza's God might suggest his common association with atheism.
I'm thinking about signing my first name as lexluther instead of alex...


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Midnight

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2007, 11:22:46 PM »
All politicians of Humanists.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2007, 10:50:23 PM »
Georgia is not part of the Deep South

I have a comment........WHAT???

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Midnight

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Re: Atheist Politicians
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2007, 10:56:07 PM »
Georgia is not part of the Deep South

I have a comment........WHAT???

LOL
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.