The RE sun, bombs, and you!

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2007, 01:56:42 PM »
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Oh, and are you sure about that Tom?

Yep. The same data could be used under the assumption of a Round Earth and give us  a distance 93,000,000 miles.
Nope. It would not. Please do try to work the math before you post. You're a fool.
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Well if the earth was round that wouldn't work as that shape made wouldn't be a triangle.

The earth is not round. The earth is flat.
Wrong and wrong.

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sokarul

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2007, 02:09:44 PM »
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Oh, and are you sure about that Tom?

Yep. The same data could be used under the assumption of a Round Earth and give us  a distance 93,000,000 miles.
Nope. It would not. Please do try to work the math before you post. You're a fool.
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Well if the earth was round that wouldn't work as that shape made wouldn't be a triangle.

The earth is not round. The earth is flat.
Wrong and wrong.
Tom Bishop has never and will never do any of the math he says he has done. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Skeptical ATM

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2007, 02:40:42 PM »
This is true, and always has been.

I would point how bad debating like ''The Earth is flat, so you are wrong" is, but Gully did it so I'll shut my trap.

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Ulrichomega

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2007, 07:20:42 PM »
IF you actually look at it, most of the noobish RE'ers do the same thing. Tom therefore concludes that he can do the same thing, even though most of the serious RE'ers don't do this sort of thing.

Oh, and Narc, it is not an explosion that is taking place in the middle of the Sun. IT is the fusion of Hydrogen into Helium. Yes, it does make a massive outwards force, but this is (mostly) nullified by the Sun's massive gravity.
I'm so tempted to put a scratch and sniff at the bottom of a pool and see what you do...

Avert your eyes, this is too awesome for them...

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narcberry

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #64 on: July 27, 2007, 07:33:42 AM »
IF you actually look at it, most of the noobish RE'ers do the same thing. Tom therefore concludes that he can do the same thing, even though most of the serious RE'ers don't do this sort of thing.

Oh, and Narc, it is not an explosion that is taking place in the middle of the Sun. IT is the fusion of Hydrogen into Helium. Yes, it does make a massive outwards force, but this is (mostly) nullified by the Sun's massive gravity.

So why doesn't all the hydrogen under this enormous force, fuse?

But at least we know that RE'ers believe God can make a bomb too big to explode.

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Skeptical ATM

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2007, 07:39:30 AM »
Have you read that textbook yet?

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Midnight

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2007, 07:42:49 AM »
I think we have established that NADberry is not as old as presented.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Ferdinand Magellen

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2007, 07:51:49 AM »
He continually refuses to read up on the subject even after we've refuted his claims...
Ignoring the truth does not make it go away, it just makes you ignorant and disempowered.

Can you change reality by inventing new names for ordinary things?

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2007, 11:41:59 AM »
The sun is constantly exploding (by which i mean fussioning - not quite the same thing). The sun is also very massive. The gravity due to the mass is what stops the sun exploding outwards (the two forces of outwards explosion and inwards gravity counteract eachother).

What would happen, hypothetically, if the two forces no longer matched? One of two things; either the sun would collapse in on itself (think dwarf star or black whole if it was really massive) or it would explode outwards (supernova).

Towards the end of a suns life one of these two things does happen. Either it looses so much mass that the gravity no longer holds it together and it explodes (supernova)

Or it looses too much fussionable material, the explosive outwards force is less than the gravity, and it collapses.

Obviously this explanation only works if you beleive in gravity :-/

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CommonCents

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2007, 11:45:57 AM »
The sun is constantly exploding (by which i mean fussioning - not quite the same thing). The sun is also very massive. The gravity due to the mass is what stops the sun exploding outwards (the two forces of outwards explosion and inwards gravity counteract eachother).

What would happen, hypothetically, if the two forces no longer matched? One of two things; either the sun would collapse in on itself (think dwarf star or black whole if it was really massive) or it would explode outwards (supernova).

Towards the end of a suns life one of these two things does happen. Either it looses so much mass that the gravity no longer holds it together and it explodes (supernova)

Or it looses too much fussionable material, the explosive outwards force is less than the gravity, and it collapses.

Obviously this explanation only works if you beleive in gravity :-/

Let's see...

fusing
hole
fusible
believe


We all believe in gravity, just not as a force.
OMG!

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2007, 12:17:32 PM »
Nice. Call me up on semantics.

OK;

Fussioning is the wrong word. It's the right concept (or not as the case may be - but you didn't adress that)

Whole instead of hole. Woops! Thanks for pointing that out now i am much more educated on the subject of flat earth!

Fussionable (again, semantics)

I only used the word 'believe' in a sardonic way, hopefully pointed out by the presence of the :-/. Obviously i don't believe in gravity. I don't beleive in anything - i just go with the scientific process of deduction and evidence. I wasn't actually looking to discuss the meaning of the word 'believe' though :-/

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CommonCents

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2007, 12:19:55 PM »
But I bet you think a force called gravity exists.  You are sadly mistaken.
OMG!

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #72 on: July 27, 2007, 12:23:33 PM »
Well i am a trained geologist. A classic way of measuring the size of a mountain involves a very sensative pendulem that measures the gravitational attraction of the mountain. Mountains are big enough to exert a measurable force on a well made pendulem, not that you'd feel it or see it without magnification but it does happen. I've seen as much evidence for the existance of gravity as i have for air, which i've also never seen.

Obviously you disagree. Calling me up on semantics doesn't really advance your point much though. Simply pointing out that i am mistaken is about as useful in a debate as saying 'Flat Earthers are wrong!'


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CommonCents

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2007, 12:26:51 PM »
Gravity as a force does not exist.  Mass bends spacetime and anything in spacetime has to follow the curvature.  No force is needed.
OMG!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2007, 12:28:10 PM »
Well i am a trained geologist. A classic way of measuring the size of a mountain involves a very sensative pendulem that measures the gravitational attraction of the mountain. Mountains are big enough to exert a measurable force on a well made pendulem, not that you'd feel it or see it without magnification but it does happen. I've seen as much evidence for the existance of gravity as i have for air, which i've also never seen.

You're seeing evidence for gravitation, not gravity.  They are two different things.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #75 on: July 27, 2007, 12:38:04 PM »
Gravity as a force does not exist.  Mass bends spacetime and anything in spacetime has to follow the curvature.  No force is needed.

This is true. Mass bends spacetime. More mass bends spacetime more than less mass. The apparent effect on anything nearby to the mass is experienced as a force which is called the force of gravity as a convenience.

It could be said that given the 'force of gravity' is due to the curvature of space time, gravity as a discrete entity is about as real as the feeling of being thrown about in a cornering car due to centrifugal force (which also doesn't exist, despite the fact you can feel it).

The mass of a mountain bends spacetime in such a way that other objects with mass nearby are attracted. This is due to the cuvature of space time, but the effect on a person living nearby looking out their window at a highly accurate pendulem are seen to be those caused by a force. The 'force of gravity'. You can't actually see the curve of space time with the naked eye (because the light you see with is curved as well - it's like measuring a wonkey table with an equally wonkey ruler - it comes out straight)


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CommonCents

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #76 on: July 27, 2007, 12:43:33 PM »
Thanks for telling me things I already know.
OMG!

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #77 on: July 27, 2007, 12:53:54 PM »
To get back to the relevent bit then (and it is harder to read if i am not allowed to simplify with the force of gravity);

The sun is constantly fusing. The sun is also very massive. Due to the curvature of the spacetime occupied by the sun (caused by the sun's great mass) the particles exploded outwards by the sun, with the exception of photons and some very fast solar wind, do not have the escape velocity required to overcome the curvature of the spacetime in which they are present. Thus the outwards exploding force is counteracted by the curvature of spacetime that prevent the explosion leaving the vicinity.

What would happen, hypothetically, if the force of the explosion was no longer balance by a great enough bending of spacetime? One of two things; either the sun would collapse in on itself (think dwarf star or black whole if it was really massive) or it would explode outwards (supernova).

Towards the end of a suns life one of these two things does happen. Either it looses so much mass that the curvature of spacetime no longer holds it together and it explodes (supernova)

Or it looses too much fussionable material, the explosive outwards force is insufficient to balance the inward tendancies of the matter exploding and it collapses inwards.

This explanation only works if you beleive in the curvature of spacetime :-D

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narcberry

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #78 on: July 27, 2007, 02:52:48 PM »
So, it's settled. The RE sun SHOULD explode. I am glad I was able to shine a little light in the dark closet of RE. You are all very welcome.

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Ferdinand Magellen

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #79 on: July 27, 2007, 02:56:01 PM »
actually, if you read what he said and what everyone else said, it WILL explode, but not yet.
Ignoring the truth does not make it go away, it just makes you ignorant and disempowered.

Can you change reality by inventing new names for ordinary things?

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2007, 02:58:41 PM »
The sun is exploding but that explosion is kept in check by the effects of gravity (curved spacetime, gravitation, whatever).

Sooner or latter (latter human time scale) the forces will go out of balance due to all the fussionable elements being used up and the sun will either explode fully or collapse in on itself. One or the other. Scientists think they can work out which based on size, and for our sun the moneys on collapse to dwarf star (with perhaps just a little bit of explosion first).

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narcberry

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2007, 02:59:27 PM »
Yeah I've set off a lot of firecrackers that won't explode because of the massive force of gravity...

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2007, 03:01:21 PM »
The funny thing is that would actually work if you had enough of them.

Like in a ball the size of the sun for example.

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Ferdinand Magellen

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2007, 03:01:56 PM »
yes, lawson's criterion. we've been through this.
Ignoring the truth does not make it go away, it just makes you ignorant and disempowered.

Can you change reality by inventing new names for ordinary things?

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narcberry

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2007, 03:04:39 PM »
yes, lawson's criterion. we've been through this.

Yes the mathematical loophole whose only purpose, other than contradicting the fusion concepts, is to make it possible for the RE sun to work.

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Ferdinand Magellen

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #85 on: July 27, 2007, 03:06:30 PM »
it doesn't contradict anything at all... it makes perfect sense.
Ignoring the truth does not make it go away, it just makes you ignorant and disempowered.

Can you change reality by inventing new names for ordinary things?

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narcberry

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #86 on: July 27, 2007, 03:08:57 PM »
About as much sense as losing a war to a country whose army consists of a tank with a flat tire, 2 crop dusters, and a panther.

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Ferdinand Magellen

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Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #87 on: July 27, 2007, 03:18:14 PM »
Actually, they had more tanks than that. What was significant is they didn't use them. It was the men they used, and they used them more effectively.

Now that i've taken the bait, I ask you to move on into the Arty thread if you want to discuss this further.

Lawson's criterion makes sense because experimental fusion facilities have nearly achieved the same ongoing system using an electromagnetic field. The fact that it can be achieved with a force outside of gravity shows that its not just mathematical rubbish.
Ignoring the truth does not make it go away, it just makes you ignorant and disempowered.

Can you change reality by inventing new names for ordinary things?

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Skeptical ATM

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2007, 03:23:53 PM »
Which we had told you before, don't be a stirrer.

Re: The RE sun, bombs, and you!
« Reply #89 on: July 28, 2007, 08:01:17 PM »
Well i am a trained geologist. A classic way of measuring the size of a mountain involves a very sensative pendulem that measures the gravitational attraction of the mountain. Mountains are big enough to exert a measurable force on a well made pendulem, not that you'd feel it or see it without magnification but it does happen. I've seen as much evidence for the existance of gravity as i have for air, which i've also never seen.

You're seeing evidence for gravitation, not gravity.  They are two different things.

So, about this force of gravity which doesn't exist:

A) With small speeds, Newton's theory of gravity is CORRECT. Newton's theory of gravity contains a force called GRAVITY or the GRAVITATIONAL FORCE. There is nothing wrong with using the word GRAVITY.1
B) At high speeds, Newton's theory of gravity is WRONG. There IS no force of gravity because it would create contradictions. Then we cannot use the word "gravity" (pertaining to the force of gravity).

If our geologist friend here is measuring how large mountains are (which aren't very big, and aren't moving very fast), he is certainly able to use Newton's theory of gravitation, in which there exists a force called (gasp!) gravity!

1: By correct I mean agrees with experimental evidence to any detectable precision.